Both! :^)

Since Abe was a blackspot disaster for me, I signed up for Camp Marianne:

Abraham Darby is a much more vigorous rose than Evelyn for me. It also is very healthy (in my no BS climate) while Evelyn gets some mildew. The growth habits of the two roses are quite different.

Haha! Hoovb, how did I know you were going to say that?!

subk3 - I would love to go for Marianne, but she's a once bloomer, and although I would be fine with that, in this climate the spring blooms are almost always damaged, but the fall blooms on repeaters are always better.

nik - how would you say the growth habits compare? The descriptions of both are that they are lanky, but maybe this is climate dependent. Or is one lankier?

Evelyn is lanky for me. Abe is certainly not lanky. But he's not like a stiff upright HT. He creates a full structure. Quite rigid but not too upright and narrow. You have to prune him wisely though. I'll try to post a pic of my quite young Abe tomorrow.

Camp Evelyn, for sure. She can be a very vigorous rose here. Diane

And in her pink moments...

Diane

In terms of heat tolerance, I would NEVER grow Abraham Darby again. It was likely the worst rose in my garden, burning prior to it becoming "really" hot, and it only received morning sun. I have seen beautiful images of A.D. and keep wondering what could have been done to save it from being sp'd...... nothing... absolutely nothing.. well maybe an air conditioned greenhouse...?

I vote for Evelyn.

Lynn

Hi Lynn,

You know heat, that's for sure, and for me, anyway, Evelyn does well in the heat here, probably better than any other Austin I grow, plus many other non Austins. It gets pretty darn hot, here, too. She does like her sun, too, and does best pretty much blasted by sun all day--but then I don't live in Las Vegas!

Diane

I have my AD in California summer heat up to around 100 but with cool nights and partial shade that drifts in & out all day. Would like to try Evelyn also but have shied away because she is put in the yellow camp. Is she really yellow or the delicious color I see above?

Diane,

I do not know if Nosometer's has seen Evelyn in person; I have not. It is definitely the online images that you and Hoovb posted that make me covet this rose. With the exception of Golden Celebration, South Africa ( I am on the fence regarding this one), and Lady Hillingdon, like Anne, yellow is a color I tend to shy away from. Do your Evelyns have a yellow moment?

Las Vegas is most definitely a good point of reference for summer heat. I think temperatures for the rest of the year, the beautiful tea roses and noisettes that I am growing to love, make up for the summer days in Hades.

Nosometer, all 9 of the Austin varieties I grow are good to great roses. Mary Rose, Pretty Jessica, Golden Celebration, and Munstead Wood have been very good performers. I do not know what your temperatures are like, but my roses are not fazed much by the low 90's, Abe fried.

Lynn

Lynn,

I suspect that I am going to be in camp Evelyn. My babies have grown and bloomed in the middle of summer heat, whereas Abe's flowers fried when over 80 degrees after a rainstorm. I'm trying again because I realized when I dug out my Abe that he was planted in pure fill sand in a rain shadow. We shall see. The photos I posted are from my garden.

You have hit on my big concern regarding either: I'm not fond of yellow flowers in just about any way, shape or form (except perhaps early daffodils), and orange is not that far off. Both Abe and Evelyn open crayola orange before fading to a nice apricot then to pink. But in either case, as in just about any flower, the fragrance wins over appearance.

My summer temps are mostly in the mid to upper 90's with scattered low 100's. Humidity is in the single digits to teens. The only roses that haven't fried in a day or two are Radio Times, but this one seems hesitant to grow and rebloom, and Evelyn. Marie Pavie seems okay for maybe two days. Even Bishop's Castle, which is said to do great in heat, fries the day of opening even well watered (but keeps trying to bloom). Falstaff lasts a couple of days before frying, Glamis Castle stinks, so I don't really care, Madame Isaac Pereire did surprisingly well with flowers lasting a few days in mid-90's heat before frying. Alnwick Castle kept trying and kept frying. Winchester Cathedral fries. Bolero fries and has thrips all summer. Even Knockout fries. William Shakespeare 2000 fries as soon as the sun touches the flowers. Eden has so many thrips that I can't tell if it fries.

I expect that what does well for Diane will do well for me. We shall see!

Lynn and Nose,

No yellow in Evelyn's (or Crayola orange) blooms for me, but some buds can have a yellow tinge before opening. I just checked Weather Underground (yes, Lynn, I'm using them for weather reports now), and Boise had a high of 80 today, and ABQ had a high of 76 (I think--may be a couple of degrees off). You have a little longer summer than we do because of your latitude, but temps and humidity are quite similar--at least in summer.

My close friend and very experienced gardener grows both Abe and Evelyn, and says Evelyn is her best blooming rose. But I know Evelyn can do some resting, too.

Check fragrancenutter's photos posted recently of her results training a young Evelyn's lateral canes around a tomato cage. Wonderful results. She has a number of recent photos posted on the Rose Forum that will boggle your mind. She lives in Australia in zone 10 U.S., so she has year around warm weather.

Diane

More Evelyn

When I did my big round of rose ordering for Spring 2013, I had 'Evelyn', 'Abraham Darby', 'Tamora', 'Golden Celebration', and 'Jude the Obscure' coming as representatives of David Austin's roses in "warm" tones. I got to see (and smell) all bloom before I decided on placement. 'Evelyn' didn't get a place -- but not because I didn't like it.

I had 'Golden Celebration' in a previous garden, and loved it -- so it was definitely staying. I wanted 'Tamora' as my "licorice-scented" rose. I wanted 'Jude the Obscure' because its fragrance, form, and color were distinct. I kept 'Abraham Darby' because its growth habit worked where I put it. 'Evelyn' was nice, but in color was something between 'Tamora' and 'Abraham Darby', which already had their places. As I studied its habit via pictures on HelpMeFind and elsewhere, I couldn't seem to find a place for 'Evelyn'. So it and 'Heirloom' and 'Duchesse de Montebello' were gifted to a former coworker who was becoming enamored with my garden project.

I had made my orders without a precise garden plan. I had some general ideas about "something growing like this over there", but for the most part, I put things together when I had them in pots to move around. Poor 'Evelyn' simply wasn't distinct enough in bloom color from 'Abraham Darby' and 'Tamora' to warrant a place. And thinking of the garden now, I still can't think of where she'd fit. If I was to start another garden in a suitable climate, I'd definitely consider her again. In any case, I'm glad I finally got to experience the fragrance I've read about for so long.

:-)

~Christopher

Christopher, it's interesting that you are growing those Austin roses because I grow all of them, too, but have several Evelyn roses instead of Abe. The rose I am finding more and more questionable after 11 years is Jude the Obscure. I may remove him in a few months--I'm just so tired of this rose's poor bloom repeat and inability to stand our heat. I love the form and color of its blooms, but it's a wimp--one that's 8 feet tall and takes up too much space for its lack of bloom production. Diane

Diane,

A little over ten years ago, I grew Jude the Obscure. I purchased it due to the lovely apricot images I had seen and the yellow faze was one I could handle, at the time. It always had the coloring of the flesh of a banana, which was not the look I was going for. It was Sp'd. I don't recall the blooms being especially heat tolerant either.

Noseometer,

With the exception of Bishop's Castle and one of my Munstead Woods, all Austin's are growing in prime real estate, receiving morning sun only. Bishop's Castle doesn't put out a bloom once temperatures hit the mid 90's and one of my Mustead Wood... Poor rose bush...it is in full sun right now. My plan is to move it to an Eastern Exposure or the Austin's area this winter. I have a few Princess Alexandria of Kent that will be delivered in January. I was going to purchase WS2000, especially since I believe it could be discontinued. Your information helped to eliminate doubt regarding my decision to remove it from my list. I have contemplated attempting to grow Sharifa Asma and/or Heritage again.

My Boleros, grown at a previous home, were one of my best performers. They were grafted and received filtered sun through a mature African Sumac. However, thrips eating away at roses is definitely an issue. I have 6 grafted Bolero on order that will be strategically placed in an area that receives a lot of sun. I may need to re-visit ideas regarding placement.

We have grown some of the same Austin's. Experience in one's own climate or that most similar truly is the best teacher. You and Diane seem to have temperatures and conditions with more compatabilities. It is always interesting to see how roses perform in different conditions.

I use a laser heat monitor to find hot and cool spots in my garden.

Lynn

Diane,

As much as I love the fragrance of Jude, I don't think I'm going to try it again. My first try was a cultural failure (my fault), but the Jude at the rose garden here barely opens flowers, and always looks miserable. That, plus it is yellow. If it does poorly for you, I'm not sure it is worth trying given all those negatives! Maybe Windermere, which has a similar fragrance, but not as strong.

Lynn,

You are a techie, aren't you! I too felt that I wouldn't be fazed by Jude's yellow phase, and in other gardens the banana yellow is nice. Not in mine. Let me know how your Bolero's do! They do smell nice, I just wish I'd get more than a few undamaged flowers a year.

Christopher,

I have to admit that I planted Evelyn without paying much attention to what the bush is expected to look like. In the public rose garden here, the bush is about 2 feet high, and in its second year is not showing any desire to grow any bigger. We shall see...

Good grief, what is the rose garden doing to Evelyn, noseometer? I have a 4-5 month old Evelyn that's now heading for 6 feet--last week it was five feet. It's growing so fast, it's blooms get stuck in the middle of the plant at lower levels--kind of funny. This will all be over in a few weeks. Winter comes early here in the top (as in upper) tier of states. If you give Evelyn decent amounts of water and fertilizer, you will have no problem with size. Diane

My 'Evelyn' came as a tiny band, and it also shot up past 5 feet tall in just a few months. Its shape was very upright and narrow, like a Hybrid Tea. I suppose it may have arched out more as it matured, but I didn't get to see. I'm glad it helped enable my coworker to explore fragrant roses for her garden.

:-)

~Christopher

Abraham Darby in my garden. It has the perfect place. It sits between Munstead Wood and Lady of Shalott.

My Abe does not like our hot summers. Evelyn is doing much better.

Evelyn at the ABQ Rose Garden May 9, 2015, spring flush. I think it is 2 years old. It's not showing any sign of heading for 6 feet (yet). I hope mine do.

That's beautiful, noseometer, but it looks like two plants, giving it some width. My are moderately upright but wide, too. These Evelyn plants will keep getting taller, I'm sure. They may be own root, which could slow down growth a bit, I guess. Diane

Thorny Abe winter killed and good riddance!!

EVELYN is gorgeous, pale, and many, many petals. All almost as large as my open hand. The scent is something special, almost like a caress... I wouldn't want to be without this rose. Mine came from Heirloom Roses. Another I had didn't and was harsh pink and orange... I eliminated that one. I love the pale color and will always have her in my garden. Wonderful cut or on the shrub. She's a keeper!

I had AD in a spot where it got some shade. It was a black spot magnet, but most Austins are in my yard and I spray. I love love love AD blooms and fragrance. Mine didn't bloom the most, but most of the blooms were fabulous and show worthy. I had to dig mine up 2 years ago after they destroyed my yard and I just replanted it. It's very small now, being in a pot in the shade for 2 years, but hopefully it will come back to it's former glory.

Abe Darby actually does better for me here. It bloomed all summer and hardly any black spot. It is in full sun. Evelyn is healthy and growing long canes which I espaliered on a wire fence. It just hardly bloomed at all. Maybe she will do better this year but so far Abe has outperformed her.

~Sjn

Does it seem like Evelyn does better in the dry summer West and Abe does better in the humid East?

Abe can't keep its leaves here; and couldn't in the Dallas area either. Love the sumptuous look of Evelyn but DA's that do well here are few and far between! Tamora seems to be the exception, pretty healthy and wonderful repeat.

I don't have Abe but do have Evelyn and I love her fragrant blooms although she didn't bloom much for me last year. I think I had her in too much shade so I moved her to a sunnier spot this weekend, fingers crossed that she likes her new spot in the yard and rewards me with more of her luscious blooms.

All I can say about your Abe is WOW.

Erasmus, that Abe is GORGEOUS!!!! Do give a different Evelyn another try. I believe she grows well here in the North, but if you can get Abe to grow like that (mine winter killed), you gotta be doing something right, and a new plant would probably love your house!!

Rebecca

Thank you. It's grafted and pretty old now. I've been getting rid of old canes and trying to encourage new but I don't think it has put out a new cane in awhile.