Impossible to tell with info provided. First guess would be perched water table at that spot due to mound planting, but who knows?

If there is no drought in effect then probably root rot. I would never count on an Abies for an architectural effect like a hedge or screen as these are too prone to pests and diseases. And so often become gaunt with age, frequently due to the aforementioned.

Your specimens already look like they are becoming transparent.

Also if any of your white firs persist there they will (unless sheared, which will then make them formal elements incompatible with the informality of the planting) become hugely bigger than the size of your bed would imply you are envisioning - for instance the favorable climate eastern half of my State has planted examples over 100' tall.

(With the species being seen as much as 96' high in Seattle by 2005, even though it does better in the drier interior region).

root rot is interesting theory... the irrigation sprinklers probably hit it daily. Not sure what perched water table means.

Yes, the size of the bed is pathetic especially long term. I tried to tell them it was too narrow but I had no say. Did I mention I hate condo living? :-)

I looked for signs of bugs or a borer but couldn't find any holes. I did see a decent amount of sap along the trunk. I was thinking maybe doing a soil drench of imadicloripid (sp) just in case there is a borer. I know that's not very IPM-friendly :-( though.

The other trees that they had planted in other areas were frasier firs. Even more guant with age I think. Even sparse when young. And they had some deaths of those too that they replaced with a blue spruce, which does seem more tough. I dislike blue spruce species as they age. the beautiful ones grow too slowly. I've seen some beautiful white firs here in New England. Would love to know what it needs to be happy.

What would you think about white spruce as a replacement if it dies? They put some of those in another nearby island recently. Same dumb mound.

As soon as the developer of the complex finishes and leaves in a year, we the unit owners will have more control over landscaping, but for now it is like hitting your head against a wall getting anything to change.

perched water table = saturated (sopping wet actually) soils well above the actual water table (where your well would draw from) because of an impermeable soil or rock layer (clay can cause this).

are you afraid of it.. how about getting some pix.. a bit closer ...

hey ... you play in any yard you want .... at least you know its a conifer.. lol .... thats the usual reason for referring peeps to the proper forum ... a very subtle way of telling them they arent shrubs.... besides.. conifers are trees... you win both ways ...

rather large transplants ... tom says tree are just giant energy storage systems.... when these were dug... 99% of the root mass was cut off... and we never know what that process does underground.. the loss might just be catching up with this one ....

how do you water... hope its more than the lawn sprinklers ... because that is one fine lawn ... but lawn watering is not really tree watering ...

ken

If the purple things are ninebarks that indicates the soil is moist if not damp even on the crest of the berm. The daylilies growing lustily also implies a moist soil. White fir is blue because it is a dry climate tree, where the climate becomes less austere it is replaced (in the wild) by the related Low's fir (often considered a form of white fir) or Grand fir. That white fir would turn out to be better for conditions east of the Rockies than most familiar species of Abies is kind of unexpected, except that many other plants brought into general cultivation have turned out to have wider tolerances than might be implied by their natural ranges. Nevertheless the fact that when planted back there it is visiting from a region with a reverse precipitation regime could still mean that you really need to take certain steps - maybe selecting a location with excellent drainage or no artificial irrigation after establishment - to get it to last.

Properties in my area have many thousands of planted Abies and Picea yet these are often bald on the inside when of any size at all, with scattered individuals tapping out (due to being overwhelmed by bugs, pollution or drought) perhaps every summer. Even the locally native, spontaneously occurring Grand fir and Sitka spruce are often buggy and scruffy - the spruce in particular can be just about the ugliest thing you have ever seen when planted on an ordinary urban lot - instead of growing in its preferred wetland habitat.

If the mound was constructed without incorporating mound soil into native, then there is a perched water table at the interface between mound and native. That plant doesn't like its feet wet and will be sad. Common error and major contributor to tree failure - "mound planting" is a box to check on many tree failure checklists.

yeah, I took some close-ups too.

And here's all 3 in July. Looking fine in color. The middle one always had that bottom gappy area.

And here's last year August.

This year I backed off on some of the watering. I had been doing deep slow watering each week or every other since "birth". This year not as often -- maybe every 3-4 weeks.

Here's another theory... I think the mulch that they use is awful. Could it actually kill a tree? THe mulch is so chemically enhanced that when they hit some low-growing perennials with it this spring, the foliage burned. I actually lost 2 baby hostas and several other things. All the gardener neighbors were up in arms at some of their losses. Even in my front foundation bed where I replaced much of the soil with each planting, I am not getting the healthy robust results I should be getting. Several plants are lackluster. I am suspicious that the mulch is leaching crapola into the soil. I have no other explanation for such poor results with all my super skills honed over 20+ years perfecting my former shangri-la.

It is too bad condo living is good in other respects. But shangri-la is missed.

"...the irrigation sprinklers probably hit it daily..."

Do all three get hit, or this bad one in particular? You may have to poke around the root ball to see what is happening. Is it too wet, too dry, how far down does the wet or dry go...check things like that. While you are poking around, make sure no burlap is above grade and any twine around the trunk was removed as there is no telling how bad mass produced landscapes can be planted.

tj

"If the mound was constructed without incorporating mound soil into native,..."

I would be shocked if they did. They don't seem to pay attention to details on anything else here.

One of the things about potential overwatering that confuses me is that I thought on a mound, runoff would be expected and it would be hard to get water to the rootball. That is why I take such care to water slowly and deeply so it does not runoff. How ironic if I was making matters worse. I will have to get my moisture meter out tomorrow to go check it out. I would think in crappy soil, the roots have not ventured out too far in 2 years, but maybe they do.

It was a very dry summer, but we have been getting a bit more rain the past 4-6 weeks -- as much as 3.5" last week.

Whenever the top of a plant goes bad the first thing to look at is the roots or rooting environment. Dig some test holes, poke around in the original soil balls, get in there and see what is happening.

When the objective is to provide a coarser, better aerated rooting environment than the existing soil would provide bringing existing soil up into the added material and blending them together defeats the purpose of berming, mounding or raised planters. If too much water is sitting on top of the soil under the raised area the answer is to install a drainage system, whether an area of imported soil is present or not.

"except that many other plants brought into general cultivation have
turned out to have wider tolerances than might be implied by their
natural ranges."

Hilarious to hear bboy (embo's former id...) saying this of all people. His overall advice is good though and you should take it seriously.

There are mature Abies concolor in New England but I seem to recall some old Arnold Arboretum publication I found online recommending others as superior for the region. Particularly firs of NE Asia like Abies holophylla. I had in my yard what I'm sure was one of the southernmost mature A. concolor along the eastern seaboard (by which I mean in this case, within a few miles of navigable coastal water...I'm in MD) and although it never looked good, the years of 2010, 2011 and 2012 finished it off, with their combination of droughts followed by floods.

I wonder if species like this in New England are produced by liner wholesalers mainly for the Christmas tree market but get some sales into landscaping channels as well. Point being they can probably look good long enough to get to Christmas tree size and be marketable, but could be difficult to mature into a nice looking yard specimens except on the most well drained soils and...obviously...without irrigation or careful management. Plant situation can make a difference with these borderline plants, as bboy suggests. Years ago I saw a shockingly good looking Douglas fir at Tyson's Corner, VA...very far south for those on the east coast even though they are common in central PA...planted on a very steep berm of coarse fill adjacent to a parking garage and side road. Some clever landscaper realized that those conditions would suit it.

If you want to maintain this grouping, I'd consider expanding the bed forward and making it a triangular formation. The trees will take on a better form than they will in a too-close line like that.

"I would never count on an Abies for an architectural effect like a hedge or screen...as these are too prone to pests and diseases" Well, they aren't really the best tree for the job, in my opinion, for various reasons. But Abies firma seems quite indestructible here. It has certainly held up better in these years than white pines would have. I bet some other firs would be quite disease resistant in New England. (but not firma, too cold for it there)

Another problem using Abies for screening is that eventually the lower branches extend beyond the designated boundaries of where it was planted. Stubbing the branches to contain them is a less than ideal method. They don't take to it well. So, usually the branches are removed, opening up the view with only the lower trunk obstructing it.

Mike

The best thing you can do is to contact your extension service at UMass in Amherst for diagnosis and recommendations. Even in these days of lean budgets the MA extension service provides excellent service. In general, abies are not problem trees in New England as witness the 10's of thousands of balsam and Frazier firs planted each year for the Christmas tree market. Abies of various types are also successfully used, if close attention is paid to pruning, as hedges in many places. The far right tree does seem to have some sort of problem originating in the root area, but diagnosing what it is from a photograph is really not possible.

I thought on a mound, runoff would be expected and it would be hard to get water to the rootball. That is why I take such care to water slowly and deeply so it does not runoff.

Water will not drain from one soil texture to another until the upper level is saturated. A property of soil physics and chemical forces of water.

Mound plantings are commonly a problem because one type of soil is plopped onto another without incorporating new into native to allow for drainage.

Embothrium: For what it's worth, my parents live in Massachusetts near the coast and have some very happy conifers growing in the sandy soil that folks here identified as Abies Concolor:

What are these trees?

As far as what to do, can you move the sprinkler?

Mike I couldn't have said it better myself. This is partly why I was advocating putting them in a triangle formation, to give more room for their lower branches.

Ed, Mainegrower - yeah I know I've seen very nice Abies for example at the Arnold Arboretum, and a white fir might have been one of them. But I'm always a bit mystified by the soil situation in New England though, it's not all rocky, sandy well-drained is it? I feel like I've been in western MA around Amherst etc. and seen good old fashioned slimy clay MUD in places, of the type you don't see, for example, at Virginia Beach. These plants could just be overwatered on a sandy soil, I suppose.

davidrt28: Western Mass might as well be a different state. Colder temperatures, much more early winter snow, salt is less of an issue. But then, I imagine most states have sections with very different soil conditions.

Coastal Massachusetts has a lot of glacial soils and a couple giant sandbars, gets (diminished) hurricanes, the ocean moderates early winter temperatures.

Well, thank you all for your insight. What a great bunch! Lots to absorb.

Unfortunately, this being a condo, there is not too much I can do to improve conditions. No triangles. No replanting. I can water (gulp), feed, insecticide, just minor things. It's way too big for me to do any serious soil manipulation. The landscaping crew nor the developer takes responsibility for anything until it is dead. Then they will eventually replace it (after a lot of nagging). How sad...

(When one of the nearby frasier firs died summer/fall of 2013, I spray painted it green until they finally got around to replacing it.)

I stuck my 10" moisture stick around the rootball and it was in the "moist" reading. Funny, the stick calls that the "green" zone. In this case it should be the danger zone! And last weekend when I was exploring I saw that the packed clay root ball that it comes with was still there, of course. I've never understood those root balls. Good for B&B growers and holding moisture I guess, but forever...??? Is the theory that eventually the roots will leave that clay pack and be ok? I'm going to plant tulips soon where the daylilies used to be. I will see if I can find any expanded tree roots.

I couldn't study the sprinkler pattern today. It was mowing day
and the sprinklers get a rest. Plus, I think they turned them off for
the season today. It is time. I could probably get them to fix the
angle of spray to avoid it, but not til next year.

Interestingly, most of the native soil I have seen here is gravelly and sandy. The little bit of planting I've done in the mound also saw similar soil. From what you all say, that should be fine for these trees, but somewhere there must be a structure change causing that saturation like Dan stated.

So, with no remediation, is the prognosis eventual death? How long would you give it? or will it just linger and suffer indefinitely -- giving me grief as I view it year round?

Also, it doesn't sound like mulch and soil too high up the trunk was exacerbating things. Any chance that was part of the problem?

Very possible. We are all just assuming the structural problem...if the soil in the mound and the ground seem similar, maybe we are wrong. We'd need a close up of where the trunk meets the ground to assess that one. If the mulch were the problem, that would be an easy fix to try.

Definitely the soil is wet now so I think the structural issue is real. I did expose about 2" of trunk Sunday. Perhaps multiple problems.

Any chance that was part of the problem?

This reminds me of a standard pithy comment from the past: "Dan's default: planted too deeply."

Ah actually that default is highly likely in a mound planting -- because the bottom of the hole is fresh soil. The incredibly heavy clay-laden root ball is bound to settle a bit. If not planted too deeply originally, then eventually.

stop watering it that is your problem

"watering any plant with any problem will always cure it" - said no gardener ever

I will go against the grain of opinion/step out on a limb (but not the brown one lol) - the tree looks fine. I say normal seasonal effects/just normal growth...unless there are a lot of dead branches, which there don't appear to be. If it was never blue, it likely will never be blue. I planted 5, $5 concolors this past week. When I was choosing, I picked the bluest ones. There were about 70 to choose from- some were "all green", some were "all blue", and some were somewhere in the middle. New growth will cover that up in a season or two. Feel free to cut out the dead stuff (or not). You might consider fertilizing with Hollytone this fall, perhaps next spring as well. It can't hurt. Very nice looking yard/landscape!

I was planting a perennial in the mound the other day and saw again closeup that the mound soil was pretty sad... i.e. very sandy. So I decided to get a soil analysis done. If I have any hope of having the condo association take responsibility and make corrections if things get worse, having that report will be crucial. Even though abies likes well-draining, it could be too well-draining and devoid of nutrients. So here are the test choices available to me. What tests would you recommend (being budget-conscious):

the routine 15 dollar one ....

i grow in glacial sand ... as far as i am concerned... with trees... there is no such thing as too well draining ...

ken

I would add the organic matter evaluation to the basic $15 test as well. Lack of adequate levels of OM will definitely affect soil fertility and additions (if necessary) can help with moisture retention in an elevated berm that offers accelerated drainage.

Thanks. Will do. I just realized that maybe I should get another test on the adjacent lawn that is not raised. That would be equivalent to whats under the rootball. The two factoids together should provide a clearer understanding, right?

Better would be to see whether mound soil was or was not incorporated into native.

better yet would be if I win the lottery, but its not gonna happen either! :-)

Here's what a Concolor looks like in the western Sierras. Looks like it's pretty dry, judging by the undergrowth....or lack of it.

That was a fun trip! I love the mountains. Any mountains.

Concolors don't look well here. Always empty on the inside, real empty, giving them a sparse look. I gave up on a Abies concolor, 'Candicans' years ago.

Mike

I just cam across this as i want to replace a dead maple with an evergree, and was leaninfg toard this or Omorika.. The concolors in this region look great acrtually. BUT there are very few older specimens to judge. Now that a few are saying the get ratty/thin, I am having second thooughts..

I hate it hen people cutbthe lower branches

my sool drains fine. soil might neeed to be worked a bit to loosen it up. its a settled lawm.. aerbian isbthe other choice

thanks!

Omorika would be more forgiving of cultural conditions. Perhaps start a new post with pix of the area you want to plant and tell us where you are.

tj

will do...