Amending a bed with lots of clay-- is "compost with manure" ok?
Catherine Di Stasio Morgenstern
7 years ago
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nancyjane_gardener
7 years agoRelated Discussions
To amend or not to amend? Clay soil...
Comments (22)"It seems that it is highly recommended to plant peach trees in raised beds from the experience on this board. Does anyone have a good link or more detailed directions as far as how to do that? What type of soil do I need? How deep do I dig the hole? How high should the bed be?" For my peach trees I use mounds and terraces. It doesn't seem to make a difference how tall the mound is. Some of my mounds are 1' tall, others started out 4' tall (before settling). The peach trees do about the same either way. Some people enclose their raised beds with a raised border of some kind. I think that's fine too. I don't think it makes much difference what soil you use for the raised beds/mounds. Several years ago, I installed drain tiles in the orchard area (The drainage was horrid and I was tired of losing peach trees.) In places we had to excavate to a depth of 4' to install the tile. What we dug out was pure clay. I used this material for some of the mounds. The peach trees have done fine in the clay mounds. Per the above posts, I would only use mounds if the drainage is poor. But since you mention puddling, I strongly suspect you could benefit from raised beds/mounds. Mounds not only provide good drainage, they also loosen the dirt so there is minimal resistance for the roots to spread. Mulching on top keeps the soil moist longer into the growing season, further encouraging root growth. It's hard for peaches not to succeed when they have moist (but not overly wet) loose soil with no weed competition and plenty of sunshine. Here's a picture that's a couple years old. You can see some tall and shorter mounds. Some of the older trees aren't in mounds. The drainage tile helped them. Here's a pic of some terraces I built last fall for planting peaches this spring. By the way, I don't bother with mounds for more water tolerant trees like apple, pear and plum, unless the drainage is really bad....See MoreAmending soil with composted manure for flowerbed...............?
Comments (7)Manure is one soil amendment but it should not be used alone. Manure should be used with other vegetative types of organic matter so it will work better in the soil. Most likely you soil in Massachussets will be clay and you will need more than manure to make it workable. Start you project by contacting your local office of the UMASS Cooeprative Extension Service about a soil test for base nutrient and soil pH levels and then dig in to that soil with these simple tests to see what you have there: 1) Structure. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. A good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top. 2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up. 3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart. 4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer you soil will smell. 5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy These will help you know what you need to do to make that soil into something good and healthy that will grow strong and healthy plants....See MoreRe-starting half-prepared beds (lots of clay & compost)
Comments (4)I'm pretty much averse to extra work so wouldn't "double dig" but would add as much organic matter as possible. Use the hay and straw as mulch - the hay might have weed seeds so you could put straw on top of it. I've also found that if you feed the worms so they propagate they will do some of the work for you. We were amazed when DH made a new garden bed that there were lots of holes deep in the heavy clay. I wonder if they winter there or go deep in the heat of summer. Not sure but I know they are worthwhile encouraging....See MoreAmend clay bed AFTER planting shrubs?
Comments (11)Excellent, excellent questions. Really, the container mix should be thought of as a, hhmmmm, "temporary root support system during commercial development of nursery stock." It would be impractical to grow azaleas hydroponically and market them, so, ergo, you have to have something to grow the roots in. When you plant, you want to break up the root mass and partly attempt to spread it out in the native soil. Yes, you certainly want to spread around any container mix that hasn't been fully rooted into by the plant, rather that plop the whole blob down in the hole. Yes, you want the plant to "forget" about that mix it had been growing in, if I may make them anthropomorphic for a moment. The Rarefind nursery catalog has a good illustration of _one_ approach to breaking up a container soil mass (you can DL the pdf version of the paper catalogs on their website) but it's not the only approach. As a practical matter in a generally moist climate, it's not the end of the world if you irrigate mainly in the root zone, at first, to prevent them from death or set back in dry spells. But yes, long term that kind of watering will somewhat discourage the plants from having to send out long roots to find water. Of course they have create roots to anchor themselves regardless, but maybe they won't create as good a network of feeder roots if they are getting watered near the trunk every week. On Long Island for 90% of landscape material you should be able to eventually not have to water it, even in the sandy soil areas. (which you are obviously not) It's just not that hot and dry a climate or one subject to huge standard deviations of summer rainfall. Yes, if you have a 20 year drought and you have stuff you planted in the past 2-3 years, you will have to water it....See Morekimmq
7 years agotoxcrusadr
7 years agogardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
7 years agokimmq
7 years agoCatherine Di Stasio Morgenstern
7 years agomad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
7 years agokimmq
7 years ago
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