Renewal by Andersen or Marvin Integrity or Starmark Windows

9 years ago

I spent several weeks researching these three windows and asking for references and also received 3 bids. Did get a Pella bid but they bid vinyl.

I was looking for 7 items in my new windows Manufacturer, Material, Appearance, Performance, Durability, installation, and of course Price.

I needed 12 windows (10 with wood interior and 2 with all white) and 1 patio Door.

I looked at three brands: Renewal by Andersen, Marvin Integrity Fiberglass, and Starmark Composite Vinyl Window.

I have a spreadsheet with this information.

Manufacturer: Winner is both Andersen and Marvin

Renewal by Andersen is part of Andersen Windows - over 100 years. Marvin is about 100 year also. Starmark is owned by a company called Okna - what I can find out -- it has only been around 10 years. Why would you trust or invest into a window manufacturer that hasn't been around for at least 25 years? Why would you purchase a window without a proven track record?

Material: Winner both Andersen and Marvin

Starmark Window is a solid cellular pvc (fancy name for a vinyl product that they just inject air into to make it solid).

Integrity Fiberglass Window: this window looked shiny like a vinyl window and just seemed to thin. Winner

Renewal by Andersen is a composite Fibrex material made out of reclaimed pvc and wood. Winner

Appearance: Renewal by Andersen won this because it was the only window that looked like real wood window without the bulky or plastic looking window and gave us the most glass. Our neighbor went with the Starmark window and it was bulky and they were upset that they were not told that they would lose at least 1/3rd of their glass space due to the bulky built Starmark Vinyl composite window. We thought the Integrity Fiberglass window looked like a plastic vinyl window also.

Interior Appearance: Integrity Fiberglass window has real wood interior. Renewal by Andersen composite window has real wood. Starmark interior is just fake wood -- its a laminate. The Starmark window was bulky and had all that fuzzy weather stripping just like a vinyl window. If I am investing into a window - I want real wood not fake wood. When I wanted just all white for my garage - the Renewal by Andersen and Marvin had the cleanest look and more glass.

Hardware: Renewal by Andersen won because the hardware was all metal and the Integrity from Marvin seemed like cheap metal and the Starmark hardware looked out dated and cheap and had internal plastic.

Performance: Starmark salesperson said triple pane has a U value of .15 to .19 and R value of 45. Integrity from Marvin had triple pane and double pane with .19 to .28. Renewal by Andersen had Smart Glass only two pane with .23 to .27 U value factor.

NOTE: I asked MidAmerica Utility company and they said this: triple pane to two pane - it would take you 25 years to make up the difference in what you paid for triple pane compared to double pane - and to what you will save on your energy bill. So why would I purchase triple pane window? I won't!

I asked all three sales reps why Starmark double hung had the fuzzy weather stripping like a vinyl window & bulky like a vinyl window and Integrity Fiberglass from Marvin and Renewal by Andersen windows did not?

I got only two answers - one from the Integrity window rep and one from Renewal rep: Solid cellular vinyl moves just like a vinyl window in cold and hot temperatures. The Starmark rep just said it was there to make it more energy efficient.

Performance (Air Infiltration): This was a tie between all three window. They all had about the same same Air Infiltration of .05. Considered very good.

Durability and Installation: Renewal by Andersen was the winner. I called references of Renewal by Andersen and all of the customers loved their windows - the only complaint was cost. The references I called for the Integrity Fiberglass window said they liked the windows but had problem with the double hung hardware and screens and cost. I asked my neighbor about his Starmark windows and he said the double hung is hard to open, the casement in his bow window the latch makes a clicking sound and the patio door doesn't close tight - the Starmark dealer said that is normal until the windows and patio doors get normal use. They were very unhappy with the screens. The cost was only about $975 dollars less then Renewal by Andersen and $1,500 less then Integrity from Marvin. They said they wish they would have gone with Renewal by Andersen -- and that the Starmark rep would have been honest upfront with them about the manufacturer & material and they wish they would have done their research like me. Starmark is a replacement window only, Integrity from Marvin and Renewal by Andersen comes in a replacement style or full frame style or new construction style windows.

Price: This was the interesting and pain in the process part.

12 windows and 1 patio door.

The Integrity from Marvin rep was just a contractor and he just gave me a paper quote (no high pressure) with a price. $18,400

Starmark Windows rep gave me a quote for about $ 21,999 then said if I signed tonight he would give me a $5,000 discount so $16,999. This rep also talked bad about the Renewal by Andersen and also about Pella. (Poor taste) He called me again last night and offered another $1,000 off if I buy today. $15,999. After talking to my neighbors and looking at the window - this window is just a fancy name for a vinyl window.

Renewal by Andersen: The rep gave me a quote for $17,100, no high pressure. They had the best installation warranty!

Pella Windows: The rep just said go with the best and this is the price you pay for the best! This for vinyl windows $14,800. The Pella Rep also talked down Renewal by Andersen and Integrity from Marvin rep and the Starmark rep. (Very Poor Taste).

Conclusion: I plan to make my decision this week. That is why I am asking for other home owners advice.

So far, I plan to purchase Renewal by Andersen. But I will wait until weeks end. Why my decision: I want a quality window that looks like a real window not bulky and not vinyl looking. What is also important is installation and who I am dealing with --- Renewal by Andersen had the most 5 stars ratings and the best installation warranty and the easiest rep and company to deal with. The rep from Renewal was respectful and didn't spend time talking down at us or about his competitors.

Please if anyone would like to give me their opinion or give me advice on my decision please do! Please if you give me advice - please make sure you have either purchased the windows or have actually looked at the windows listed above!

Thank you and I apologize if I said to much but this is a big investment for me.

Featured Answer

PRO

HomeSealed Exteriors, LLC

9 years ago

last modified: 9 years ago

There is quite a bit of misinformation that you have been given Mr Jones, I'd definitely take some extra time to sort through it all and make sure that you have accurate facts.

I'll go through some, all of which are easily verifiable:

Manufacturer and material : All three are very reputable, with Andersen and Marvin having a longer history. That said, Okna has indeed been in business since the early 90's and is a top 100 manufacturer as well. The 3 materials have similar histories as well, as none have been used commonly in a residential window application for more than 20 yrs. All three have their merits, although all three do represent a small "niche" . Vinyl and wood are FAR more common. There is no clear winner here IMO. All are suitable with no decisive pros or cons, particularly considering that each individual product is designed and engineered to exploit the respective materials' inherent strengths, and mitigate its weaknesses. If there is one that I'd put slightly behind the others it would be the Renewal, as adding wood flour/sawdust to vinyl really doesn't add much.

Appearance: This depends of course on what areas are examined, however the Marvin all ultrex integrity is by far the slimmest. The Renewal and Starmark are both somewhat bulky by comparison, although neither is very bulky compared to some other products. Despite the slim lines, the all ultrex Integrity is actually the least attractive based on the feedback that I hear. The wood/ultrex on the other hand is bulkier. This category is in the eye of the beholder. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses.

Interior appearance: well stated. Some folks would prefer the rich, real wood interior (Integrity) with only a 10 year warranty, others would prefer the synthetic stainable with lifetime warranty and no maintenance (Starmark). Winner again depends on the individual and their needs/wants.

Hardware: The Renewal and Starmark both have more attractive hardware options than the Integrity IMO. Both are all metal, both have multiple finishes available.

Performance: Here's a big one. To accurately compare, it is necessary to look at apples to apples glass packages. At .25 for a standard double pane package, and .19 for triple pane argon, the Starmark runs away with the win here. With equivalent glass (surface 2 low e, argon fill), the the Renewal and Integrity are .29 or higher. You can switch to any other glass package across the board, and apples to apples the Starmark will be multiple points better. This can be verified via CPD number (certified products directory) at nfrc.org

Air Infiltration: Another big one. The reps that you have spoken to are either flat out lying, or being highly manipulative. The only window of the 3 that sees that .05 AI number is the Starmark. The other two are in the teens at best, if not .2+. I would request a structural test data sheet for reference. If renewal or Marvin will provide it, make sure to compare the size of the window and configuration. It is highly likely that your rep(s) are using casement or picture window ratings to compare to the starmark double hung. The starmark is .01 as a casement.

Patio doors: Since this was mentioned, the differences as stated for windows continue for patio doors. If the real wood interior is preferred at the expense of performance, then the Marvin or renewal options are better. The Starmark will be a much better performer, but without the real wood interior.

Installation and durability: On durability, this is another area that would trend toward Starmark based on containing no organic parts that can rot, and also on the lifetime warranty. Renewal and Integrity are each 10 years (20 on glass). Installation itself will vary by dealer, and should be given proper weight. One cannot speculate on the quality of installation based only on material however. The only thing that could possibly be considered on that line of thinking would be availability to contractors I suppose. Integrity can be purchased by anyone, whereas Renewal and Starmark are exclusive products where dealers are regulated by the manufacturer. One important thing to note, is that comapanies that install Renewal windows are NOT owned by Andersen. They are a dealer that exclusively carries that line and meets Andersen requirements, however they are not actually part of Andersen.

Price: This again will vary by dealer and area. Renewal has a reputation as having the highest price, using high pressure sales, and also of posting thinly veiled, inaccurate info where THEY talk poorly about competitors (not to say that is the case here, of course). That said, I'm sure that there are some great Renewal operations across the country, just as there great Starmark and Intergity dealers.

Ultimately, these are three windows that are solid to excellent, and each have their own pros and cons. You are unlikely to go wrong with any of the three, it really depends on which options most closely aligns with your goals for the project. It sounds like that is the Renewal at this point, I'd only recommend getting the accurate performance information, and then perhaps that would (or not) impact your decision.

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Comments (18)

PRO
toddinmn
9 years ago
Where did you get the air infiltration from?
0
PRO
toddinmn
9 years ago
Have not seen those u values from Andersen before either.
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PRO
toddinmn
9 years ago
Are these double hungs or casements?
0
Tom Jones
Original Author
9 years ago
Web sites, and sales rep and Renewal by Andersen rep had a 1 page flyer on Smart Sun with Heatlock glass. Strange, the Starmark rep asked me the same thing. I plan to research the NRFC web site also.
0
Tom Jones
Original Author
9 years ago
I also located this very interesting item on the www.energystar.gov -- another interesting link about windows and patio doors.

Web site:

https://www.energystar.gov/sites/default/files/ES_Final_V6_Residential_WDS_Spec.pdf
0
Christine Anne
9 years ago
Okna was formed in 1994, not 10 years ago.

http://www.oknawindows.com/company/history.stml
0
User
9 years ago
I just had replacement windows done by PowerHRG.Com. What a remarkable product. I opted for the best window they had to offer. I had thirteen windows and a front entry door installed. The three installers were at my home at 8:10 A.M. and worked non stop till 5:30 P.M. Excellent job, I was in awe with the entire project.The day I had my initial consultation, the salesman was absolutely thorough with his presentation, and arrived at 10:00 A.M. and finished up some five hours later. I was totally impressed with the products description and the companys' background. Any further questions, I would be more than happy to help.
0
Tom Jones
Original Author
9 years ago
I deeply apologize, the Starmark rep did not know and I also asked them how long they have been making the Starmark window and the rep did not know and I guess I have the same question to ask you since I can't locate this information: how long have they been making Starmark windows and has the same person or people owned Starmark and Okna??
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PRO
Ultra Windows
9 years ago
Wow! A five hour sales presentation? That reminds me of a now defunct company called Pacesetter. They were relentless telemarketers who used high pressure sales techniques to ge the homeowner to sign a contract immediately. The salesman would stay until the homeowner demanded they leave or called the police to have them removed.
fridge2020
9 years ago
Starmark for performance, Marvin for the real wood interior.

No use for the RBA as far as I'm concerned.
0
PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
9 years ago
I don't have anything to add except to say "Bravo" to HomeSealed Exteriors. What a great and thorough response. Thank you for taking the time to sort through this and give all that great information.
0
millworkman
9 years ago
Tough to add anything to that.
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goochdesigns
9 years ago
Appearance is all up to the homeowner. Some may feel one product looks better than others. Of course there is application.. as there are full frame vs inserts.. with inserts you can and will lose glass viewing area, but in a full frame application you may gain glass. As to the comment from HomeSealed about Renewal not being owned by Andersen Corporation. This is misguiding as there are well over a hundred Renewal stores nationwide some of which are affiliates and some actually Andersen Corporation owned & operated. The business model is stand alone in this industry. Every company has their pros and cons again it is up to the buyer as to what appearance they prefer. Ratings are all published from controlled environments. Products are not tested in real world situations. What I mean by this is there is a push in the industry to publish ratings of window products after years of exposure. Sustained performance is the key. Frame, glass, and of course installation. If one is bad then you have a problem...
0
PRO
User
9 years ago
Renewal is owned by andersen but big deal, its about 75% vinyl and 25% saw dust. I dont know how revolutionary that is. Finally, the performance numbers are lacking, a .29 Ufactor and an air infiltration rating of .18 or .19 on a double hung is very high .

The starmark by okna has an air infiltration rating of .04 which is MUCH better and a total Ufactor of .25; again, much better. Its also a cellular pvc material.
PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
9 years ago
Sustained performance. That is a new one.
PRO
HomeSealed Exteriors, LLC
9 years ago
@gooch, out of those 100+ stores, how many are independently operated vs corporately owned and operated by Andersen? I'd genuinely like to know, as all of them that I have encountered are independently owned as I explained above. I'll concede that there may be some that are owned by Andersen, again, interested to hear the percentages. Given that many are independently owned, I'm not sure that characterizing my comments as misguided is fair. Certainly no more misguided than Renewal implying (or worse) that they are ALL factory owned.

On the performance data, laboratory performance begets sustained performance. A window with a great air infiltration rating for example, will still be tighter than one that started with a poor rating 10 years down the road in most cases. Attempting to downplay independently tested performance ratings simply shouts : "Our ratings are not good!"
PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
9 years ago
I am still waiting for the rationalization of "sustained" performance. Sounds like an ad for a middle age male commercial.

Renewal by Andersen or Marvin Integrity or Starmark Windows

HomeSealed Exteriors, LLC

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