10 ft isn't wide enough unless you are having no cabinets around the island... which will look like a table.....3ft on either side of the island and 3 ft for the island= 9 ft no space for a cabinet.

You need min 2' for cabinets on the right and at least 48" so the people sitting at the island in the right won't be hit when someone walks by. Ideally it should be 60" which means 7' total just in walkway and cabinets. That leaves you with only 3' for the island and it will hit the wall.

Perhaps a peninsula in the right and keep your dining table.

Yes this is an entire remodel. We are considering options and plan to replace everything in the current kitchen/dining area. So effectively we have a 10 x 20 blank space with which to work.

Try adding a banquette on that long wall and moving the table over a bit. Still room for 4 chairs and maybe even seating at the island.

If you slide the table over about two feet from that wall, it will give you an idea (for free) if this will work :)

I'd consider ages and stages of those who use the space most often.

How do you generally plan to use space for eating? Do you do quick breakfasts & head to the lake? Or do you enjoy leisurely weekend brunches? Mostly quick grilled meals or dinners where people linger over the table long into the evening?

Is your outdoor seating in a covered and/or screened in area?

What's the climate? Is this primarily a summer place?

The answers to the above would drive my choice.

More quick meals but occasionally longer meals as well. No lingering long meals. Outdoor seating is not covered or screened. This home is predominantly a summer place with meals often taken outside, especially since our outside seating accommodates much larger groups. But this 10 x 20 area is the only inside eating space.

Before making a decision, I recommend removing the bar stools and pushing your table up against the island to try a single island/table for a spin. I don't think your traffic jams are due to island versus table. It's probably mostly because of too-narrow aisle widths and an inefficient layout.

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I'd prefer like something more along these lines, with nice wide lengths of counter between the fridge/sink and sink/range...

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The pictures are helpful but a layout diagram with measurements are really needed for us to really be able to give you the best advice. Even something hand drawn with the measurements written in would be fine but a scale drawing on graph paper would be better. We would need the windows/doors drawn in. And another drawling showing your entire layout of the floor the kitchen is on plus the deck is also helpful in order for us to see traffic flows.

Here's a layout suggestion from a local designer with whom we are working. Unfortunately this plan has the suggested island encroach too much upon the adjacent living room area. The design really must keep within 10 x 20 confines even though the one side is completely open.

I don't think you're going to find a lot of improvement unless you get more space between your range and your sink. It just seems like there's too much stuff crammed into the corner. Also, our family is big into board games when on vacation. Perhaps yours isn't, but if it is, you can't really play games here.

Great point about board games. We seem to play them in the adjacent living area but I can see that some people would rather play at a table. Something to consider.

I find seating other than table height uncomfortable for anything more than a drink & appetizers. I'm 5'3", so I think it's a height issue - my feet are either left dangling or I have to hook them in a rung, which is awkward. If your entire family finds it comfortable, and don't have any aged relatives that come to visit often, and you're thinking you'll not sell in the next decade or so...

These comments are great! Please keep them coming. Maybe we should head in the other direction and get rid of the island! We could fit a table that seats 8.

If you want to go with an island, maybe something like this? Island seats 7. This way, no one has their back toward the range. The pantry, fridge, microwave and dishes are all accessible without having to walk around the island. A window is sacrificed in the process.

Here's the same range-sink-fridge-pantry config, but just with a nice large table. There's plenty of storage here for a secondary home without the island. It would also be a lot less money invested in cabinets and countertop :-)

I think I'd do this.

I see you have two recliners chairs (are they?) that are back to back with the dining chairs. Can we see a picture of the living room? Maybe the seating arrangement can be reconfigured so that the dining table isn't so crowded. I was picturing the table spun in the other direction, with the long side parallel to the sliding door. Move the white hutch cabinet from the back wall for more space for the chair on the short end.

If it helps, here is a link to my home from the site we use to rent it out. http://reservation.deepcreek.com/deepcreek/theme/railey/accodetail?resourceid=12264&tab=description The pictures here show the inside and the outside layout. We do have recliners and honestly they get lots of use while watching TV. We want to get rid of the white hutch completely. Although pretty, it's not very functional.

But here is a picture of the living area adjacent to the kitchen.

Here are two more pictures of the kitchen. You can see how recliners bump up against the kitchen table chairs. Typically though the recliners are not in use when we eat at the table.

Ahh. It looks like you've got a ceiling height change there. At what distance from the exterior door, does the ceiling go from vault to standard?

Can you draw up a floor plan with dimensions?

I like the one wall kitchen idea with a dining table. Much more functional for the type of house it is. I'd ditch the island completely.

BTW: Very nice place.

Thanks benjesbride. Really another good suggestion. I'm not sure my husband wants to move the window but I like the ideas. Seating 7 at an island might be easier but I'm still not sold on giving up the table. I appreciate everyone's input!

Here's my drawing attempt!!

I would get rid of the island, it would be less crowded for you and guests.

Considering the ceiling change, the views and the location of the TV, this might be a better arrangement. Excuse the limitations of the planner, I'm adding photos to try to better express what I mean. The uppers would end where the ceiling height changes. You could sit at the banquette and comfortably see the TV or the view. Less frequently used things could be stored in the banquette.

We had an L shaped banquette in our last house and the seat was fully upholstered with inner springs--SO comfortable. We often raced to get those banquette seats rather than the chairs.

Banquette against peninsula like this:

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It's funny but our kitchen is only 11' x 21' I believe and I designed a similar arrangement to your designer. I chose to have the island be 8'x6'.

Beachem, I'd love to see pictures!

When I think lakeside home (or cottage or vacation home) I think comfort. I see myself sitting around with a glass of wine as opposed to milling about with cocktails, so I vote to ditch the island..... but full disclosure, I hate sitting at anything other than table height for more than a few minutes.

Tables are key components; counter- or bar-height island and
peninsula seating really says, "Just sit for a few minutes, don't
linger" b/c of the less-than-ideal comfort of raised seating.

I strongly recommend keeping the table and getting rid of the island instead of the table if both cannot be worked in well.

I
like the one-wall idea, but I agree that the pretty dramatic ceiling
change probably makes it a non-starter. I'm surprised your KD extended
the Kitchen into the DR b/c of this.

Banquette...A long corner banquette,
to me, does not work well. Corner banquettes are fine for two people
on a side, but more than that becomes problematical. You have to crawl
over everyone or everyone has to get up to let someone in/out if you're the farthest inside person. If you
can move it out of the corner, then seating for three on a side (but no more) would be
fine - there are two exit points when not in a corner.

I didn't read through most of the post, sorry. I agree with Buehl though to keep a table. When I was looking at remodeling my small 7.5x12' kitchen I tested a counter height setup. I blocked up my small kitchen table to the height of 36". We used it that way for a month. My DH hated it. It made him tired to even think about it. I found it psychologically fatiguing as well. I think that is like Buehl's remark " 'Just sit for a few minutes, don't
linger' b/c of the less-than-ideal comfort of raised seating." My DH just wanted to sit and relax, and he couldn't feel it in a counter height chair. I have a kitchen table and it is a tiny one. It works well for us.

Another benefit of 30" table is that it can function as a work table for cookies, pies, bread, etc. For me a counter height doesn't work well for backing, IMHO.

Wow, what a gorgeous place you have there!

With the way the kitchen ceiling height changes in dining area to the vaulted, I was not sure if that would look strange in your KD's design that goes all the way across the longer back wall.

I just played with my app by cropping things from BB's peninsula plan to move stuff around. Here is what I came up with. You could keep a small prep sink under that one small kitchen window since the plumbing is already there, but I moved the main sink to the pennisula.

I moved the couch to the other wall and removed one of the club chairs because I wanted to get furniture away from the slider. I'm not sure if a round table is a good idea or not, but just thought how nice it would be for games and also faces more towards the views and the TV. I am sure it is not to scale either. Oh well, just throwing this out there anyways to spark ideas. :-)

Right now, I don't have the time to carefully read all the other replies, but I wanted to add two things - 1) I love your living room, it looks very comfy-cozy for a group, and 2) why would you want to seat 8 people in a row at an island, even if it were curved -- to me it always looks so uninviting, like strangers lined up at the counter at the local diner.

Kind of building on rebunky's idea, what about extending the wall next to the refrigerator out to the end of the ceiling and just creating a standard, efficient U shaped kitchen? You'll stay within the limits of the 10x9' kitchen as defined by your ceiling. You'll have a comfortable amount of space to walk around a 3x5 table (which could be rotated a quarter turn and expanded for more than 6 people.

I don't think you'd be sacrificing too much by closing off the kitchen toward the stairs. You might have to move your recessed lights, but upper cabinets to the ceiling will increase your storage a lot. If it's in the budget, I'd move the sink out of the corner and put a bigger window above it for more natural light.

Something is out of scale, but here it is overlayed onto your drawing:

Headed to our next meeting with our KD. I'm endlessly grateful for all of these ideas!! Thank you everyone.

I highly recommend losing the island seating as well. we have 3 seats along a peninsula and one on the end. we never use the 3rd seat because if feels too cut off. I don't understand the kitchens that line up 6 stools in a row; just not functional to me. we use our counter every night but do have another dining table. If I did another house I would prioritize a table in the kitchen over counter height seating no doubt about it.

I would also choose the table over the island. To make more space I would take out the buffet in the dining area and replace the table with an oval or round table because they are easier to maneuver around. In the meantime, instead of the tall ladder back chairs, you could switch the seating on the side near the living room to a single backless long bench. Even 2 benches would work. If you have small children, they might fit 3 to a side too. And, benches could easily be carted outside to add seating if you needed it, too. The extra chairs near the buffet wont fit at the table it seems so they are just taking up space visually and literally right now. In addition, backless stools at the island are less "in the way" all of the time.

Kyarmas I realize these comments are from 4 years ago but I'm curious what you decided to do? We are having the same debate in our house right now and really torn about what will be best. Thank you.

Shelby Morrill, have you found a more recent post regarding this? Did you move forward with a decision? Would be so helpful to hear current input. Big decision!

This is exactly we we're doing! We have an awkward and congested open concept house. No formal dining room. The table usually got shoved in a corner to collect clutter so we opted to get rid of it completely and do a bigger island. Unfortunately I could never find any pictures myself so I'll try to post some in a few weeks after we hang cabinets!

Oh yes. much improvement I've been thinking about getting rid of dining room table chairs as well Great Idea....