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Floorplan review (critique flow, expense, etc.)

arialvetica
7 years ago

The living/kitchen/dining are almost identical to the home we built 3 years ago. The rest of the plan is my own handiwork. I'm feeling pretty good about it, but I'm just a caveman. I would love feedback on potential flow problems, or areas where we could save money, anything that just seems silly.

We have two children (turning 1 and 4 this year). Kids and I are home all day every day. I host casual coffee parties every week. Living room is the heart of our home, with the kitchen in a close second.

GROUND LEVEL

SECOND STORY

Comments (51)

  • mrspete
    7 years ago

    I don't like the front entrance. Mainly, I wouldn't want guests tramping through the kitchen to reach the main living area of the house. Also, the doors aren't lined up in such way to give guests a nice view upon entering: Once in the foyer, the guests'll have to turn a bit left to enter, then they'll be greeted by the corner of the island. I like the idea of the garage and the foyer empting into the same area, but other than that, the entryway needs a complete re-do.

    Aside from the above, the kitchen looks fine.

    I'd consider a banquette against the window by the dining room table. I just love them, and you have the perfect set-up here.

    I don't see a back door anywhere. Isn't it fire code (or at least common sense?) to have a back exit somewhere away from the front door?

    I'm not clear on the items by the stairs. Is that a wet bar behind doors? I don't like that you can see the powder room from the living room.

    The master bath is a bit grand in comparison to the rest of the house.

    I'd flip the master bath and master bedroom. This'll bring the plumbing closer to the rest of the water in the house, which is a money-saver, but more importantly, it'll allow you to have windows on three sides of the bedroom.

    OR, since you're looking for ways to cut the budget, bring the master bath in line with the two downstairs bedrooms, and you can end up with a rectangular house. Cutting out the jigs and jogs is a big money saver.

    Upstairs, the kids' rooms look fine, but I'd try to give them larger closets. Large closets help kids keep their rooms clean. What you have now is probably fine for little kids, but when they grow older, you'll appreciate larger storage for them.

    I wouldn't put in double sinks for the kids. They'll never use them at the same time anyway, and they'll appreciate under-sink drawers more than repetitive sinks.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    First your measurements are hard to read. Are they wall to wall, or in the case of your bedroom wall to the start of the toilet room?

    Your shower is way too large and takes up too much square footage for what you need. Your shower and your master closet are each about the same square footage!

    Plus because you are wanting such an oversized shower (which will be very hard to stay warm in) you've moved the toilet into your bedroom area! What possible reason could you need an 8' x 8' shower, unless you're planning on some orgy's in there?

    I'm not a fan of your kitchen either as it has the island off center of the rest of the work space. Seems a bit odd to me. I think there's a better layout there and maybe post in the kitchen forum where they are experts at figuring that stuff out.

    Most importantly, you're having guests come through the mudroom? And the first thing they'll see is muddy boots, etc and then a straight view past the kitchen to a blank wall where your master closet is? Not good and certainly not welcoming. You want a way to welcome people to your home and going through a mudroom into a kitchen is not the way.

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  • gwlake
    7 years ago

    lol!

    orgies

    carry on

  • houserookie
    7 years ago

    I agree with others. And them have some other comments.

    1) Entry - at first I thought that was the back entrance, and didn't particularly think it was efficient. And then kept trying to find the main entrance... You definitely need a main entrance and a family entrance from the garage. Guests don't need to see all the utilitarian junk we all have. Visitors and family members certainly don't need to walk through the kitchen work area to get inside the house. Very strange to greet guests in the kitchen as they come in. But I've said enough about that. It's just too strange.

    2) What in the world, the garage is as big as the rest of the house. Nothing against nice size garages. 3 car garages are nice. But they don't need to be this large to accommodate the cars you have, especially when taking into account the proportion of the home. You can assign some of the square footage from the garage to the main living areas for sure.

    3) Kitchen: yikes. Several issues. How about posting it on kitchens for some fun and awesome ideas? Just so you have an idea of what I'm talking about, we need to address the traffic through the work zones, appliance and island placement, and the odd pantry that does not seem very useful there. I'd rather see you swap the living room and the kitchen. And add a main entrance. Perhaps where the bonus room is.

    4) What are the plans for the bonus room?

    5) I won't discuss the furniture placement in the family room, seems very awcquard, but that is easily changes, and to your taste. It just seems to closed off, hard for people to get in and out easily.

    6) The bar closet. Why is it behind doors? First I thought it was the strangest powder room, but then figured it was the bar. It would be more striking to have a display bar.

    7) The piano. Please measure your own piano, to make sure it fits on that wall. Pianos can vary in size.

    8) The master bedroom. Another yikes. I totally understand loving a big bathroom with all the features. Trust me on that one. Having said that, you need to look at your space, and make sure they are divided proportionally. Let's start with the toilet cut-out into the bedroom. Not a lot o privacy for the person in there. Not pleasant for the person in the other side of the wall either. What in the world is that ginormous shower taking over half the bathroom!? I say that with love and empathy. I'm a big bathroom kida girl. Ideally, fabulous. In reality, you ate a ton of bathroom real estate with a pass through and wasted space to just get in the shower. One idea could be to have the shower be a rectangle, the width of the bathroom, slide down the sinks, and move the toilet room 90 deg to the other end of the room, making it the width of the bathroom and door to the side, making the bedroom a bit bigger. Makes sense?

    QUESTIONS:

    1) where is the front of the house? Where you have your only entrance at the moment?

    2) where will the main yard/patio be? Looks like you have gorgeous views all around, but will you have your outdoor entertainment area on one of the sides?

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    lol!

    orgies

    carry on

    I couldn't help myself. ;)

  • _sophiewheeler
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Inline garages are loathsome to use. The person parking behind is always the first person who needs out, so you either do a bunch of car shuffling at night to make that happen in the morning, or you do it in the morning in your bathrobe and all sleepy. And if the bath is for orgies, the garage must be for the full blown 70's key parties complete with disco ball. There is way too much room devoted to the garage compared to the rest of the house. There's no proper proportion. Proportion is one of the key principles of design.

    There is no welcoming hominess to this house. It 100% gazes inward at it's navel without greeting visitors or even helping them to find the front door as a destination. And what a front door! It leads to the noisiest and messiest room in the house. Which is not even well designed. ''Destination'' is another key design principle. As are work zones, substantuiated by time motion studies.

    Sorry, but I don't care for much at all here. You need a pro.

  • artemis_ma
    7 years ago

    I appreciate what you are trying to do here, but when I bought my current home it was sold as a "three car garage". Which looked sort of like your diagram. There were two, and eventually, three of us with different schedules, and we NEVER used the garage as a "3 garage" anything. We all had to leave at different times on different days. Don't hem yourself in!

    I am suspecting this works for your current schedule, but don't expect schedules to last. We parked our cars out in the driveway, all the time! (And it was still a pain.)

    Entry: Try for a living area. Not a kitchen, If people are informal enough to enter from the back door, they get what they deserve, but if they enter from the front -- give them front door ambiance!

  • nini804
    7 years ago

    What is that room next to the foyer? I doubt it will ever get used! It is very closed in...is it an office? Can you flip the kitchen & living room? That will help a little bit with people having to enter right into the kitchen. Much nicer to enter into a living room.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    What foyer? There is no foyer, just a mudroom


  • chookchook2
    7 years ago

    One car too many.

  • arialvetica
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thank you everyone! This is excellent food for thought--lots of things I hadn't thought of before. What I'm going to do is type up a pros/cons list for the floorplan I currently live in AND this floorplan, and take both to our first floorplan meeting.

    By the way, for those who aren't familiar with laundry symbols, the closet near the hallway is the laundry room, not a wet bar.

  • arialvetica
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    The main thing I struggle with (perusing floorplans and trying to draw my own) is this conundrum:

    * I want to combine garage/guest entries (I don't want to waste 100 sq ft on a formal foyer when it is used for 5 minutes once per week)

    * I want my garage entry to be close to the kitchen (especially the pantry) because I don't want to haul groceries across the house

    * I want my guest entry to be relatively close to the driveway, because I don't want my guests to walk 25 paces from their cars to get to the front door (particularly since we have a snowy/rainy/windy climate)

    * I don't mind the foyer spilling into my kitchen because that's where everyone ends up most of the time, but I agree that it's nice, as a guest, to walk in and see *something* special (in this house the most special things are the views to the west and north)

    Is it possible for all these conditions to be met in one floor plan? Would love to see examples.

  • AnnKH
    7 years ago

    I agree with swapping the kitchen and living room. Remove the expensive bumpout, and put in a back door. That would pull your plumbing closer together, saving cost.

    Even for a mudroom, your entry is kind of dismal. The big closet (is it supposed to be a walk-in?) is completely in the wrong place. I would put a reach-in closet on the north wall, and a bench where you have the closet.

    With your laundry location, how will you vent the dryer? It would be best on an outside wall.

    Agree about larger closets for the kids, and storage in their bathroom instead of an extra sink.

    My friend has a garage like yours - the back stall is for his boat, not a car. I like a big garage - I'm a storage freak, and our vehicles + shelves barely fit in our 22' x 22' garage. But I think yours is overboard for the size of the house.

    Be forewarned - the useable storage under the stairs is going to be limited. Our split entry has such storage, and the area under the landing is only about 4' high.

  • gwlake
    7 years ago

    Why don't you look at Acadian style plans? Growing up we had a true Acadian plan. The foyer was in the back of the house. In that part of the country. Very rude for friend to use front of house. Huge back porch. The garage was detached. Let me draw up a picture for you. It would work.

  • gwlake
    7 years ago


    Okay. I have no pencil or graph paper. But this is the gist. In a true Acadian home. There are no closets in the home. So the builder. Put the closets in the bathrooms. This is 4 bedrooms and 2.5 baths. This is not to scale.
    Okay coming into the foyer. It opens to the kitchen on the left with a door on the right entering the laundry. Laundry enters into MB. Three sets of French doors. One for MB. One for living room. And another in the actual living.

    Dining room opens to living. The kitchen has a pass through above the sink or stove. Growing up the stove was a Jen-air with its own vent. No over head vent. It had a drop down on the back side to make a table type counter. We did homework there. We always ate in what you call dining. It was a very informal home. But absolutely warm and inviting.

  • gwlake
    7 years ago

    Above I attached an aerial of the home. It was gable with tin roof. I loved this house. :). Parents sold it after I got married.

  • chookchook2
    7 years ago

    Gwlake, I looked up Acadian history on the net. Fascinating.

  • gwlake
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Chookchook, I didn't write this in. But the house had an actual working staircase on the front porch to the second floor. :)

  • chookchook2
    7 years ago

    Fire escape?

  • mrspete
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    About the entryway, which really is the worst spot in the plan:

    You can absolutely have your garage entrance and your front-door entrance "work together" in one space -- it's just that the example you've drawn doesn't work at all. It empties into the middle of the kitchen, it isn't going to perform any of the functions an entryway should perform.

    Consider this:


    This quick sketch gives you a large family entryway, which you could arrange with a bench, coat hooks, whatever suits you. And it gives you plenty of space for your pantry within that same area -- this way you can drop off groceries before entering the house (I'd include a small table or counter area for unpacking), and the pantry's only steps from the kitchen.

    The front door for guests is still near the driveway, and it still empties the guests out into the kitchen ... but they're on the EDGE of the kitchen, not right smack dab in the middle of your work space. You could have hooks for their coats on the wall behind the door, or they could enter the family mudroom and use that area for boots or whatever. But the whole point is that they're not entering in the middle of something. I don't love this particular layout, but it is functional.

    If you wanted more of a traditional real foyer, you can still have the rooms work together:

    Again, I'm not loving this quick drawing a whole lot, but both doors are opening into a traditional staircase foyer, and I put in a little table for keys, sunglasses and purses. This could be arranged better: You could have a walk-through closet on the garage side. And if you place the kitchen straight ahead, and you could place your pantry under the stairs, which would give you that straight-to-the-pantry drop-off.

    I read in a book -- I think it was Susan S----'s The Not So Big House series -- something about the foolishness of building a lovely entrance for guests ...and then you, yourself squeezing past the washing machine every time you come home. There's some sense in that. If memory serves, in the accompanying picture, she showed a longish-hallway that brought family members from the garage to the house's main entryway ... but, along the way, she provided an opening /a little pass-through opening to the kitchen counter ... so they could set down groceries in the kitchen before they continued on down to the spot where they'd take off their coats. It would also allow a person working in the kitchen to see /speak to someone entering from the garage. I may be miscrediting the source, but the picture struck me as both practical and whimsical.

    Finally, I hear what you're saying when you say you don't want to "waste" 100 sf for a barely-used room. So don't. But that doesn't mean your entryway has to be lackluster or less than gracious:

    - In my first house, we had a long living room with the front door on the far end ... and it was easy to place a sofa in such a way that the door was "set off from" the main room. It was the most natural layout for the room -- it was also "set off" with a scrap of hardwood flooring, whereas the rest of the living room was carpeted:


    As nice as a full-fledged entrance? No, but much nicer than being thrust straight into a room without preamble, and It was what one would expect in a 1300 sf ranch house.

    Other ways to USE your entryway:

    - We are a book family. We never have enough storage for books, I'm going to line the walls of our new house' foyer with bookcases (plus a hall table for keys, sunglasses, purses). I think the floorplan shows the entryway as 6x11 -- that'll give us 22' of bookcases -- well, not a full 22' because I am going to "interrupt" the bookshelves with a hall table. I'm also going to use a Moravian star light fixture in this area. Not a bad use of the space! I think I may refer to it as "the library" rather than the foyer or the entryway.

    - You mentioned a piano that's important to you. I think it'd be ideal to design a foyer with a spot for the piano -- it'd be out of the center of things, but still visible. If you like, you could close it off with a pocket door so that the person playing could either have privacy OR share the music with the family.

    - You could widen the entryway a bit for a small loveseat or two chairs (or use a bay window or a window seat) so that the entryway could double as a small seating area "just for two". I'm picturing dark woods and chairs with a red floral print. Anyway, in a very open floorplan, it could be a place where one person could go to sit quietly and read, OR friends could drop their coats on the chairs when they enter. A small table between the two chairs could give friends a spot for keys. Again, this would be nicer with the option to close it off with a pocket door.

    - You don't have an office area in your house. You could go with a slightly-wider entryway and place a small desk in it. If you're messy, a roll-top desk would be ideal. This might be useful when one child needs to sit and do homework in an out-of-the-way space while the rest of the family is in the kitchen. Obviously, no one would use the desk while you were expecting guests, but it would make the room do double duty for you.

    The point, of course, is that your entryway doesn't have to be JUST an entryway. It's smart to make it do double duty, and you might come up with options other than the couple I suggested. And all of these double duty options would require that you move the entryway out of the kitchen realm -- a double duty entryway AND the kitchen together is just too much.

    arialvetica thanked mrspete
  • arialvetica
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Somehow I lost track of this thread! Just want to say thank you to the people who responded at length. Hoping to have time to read through them after bedtime! :)

  • arialvetica
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Do you like my new floorplan? LOL. Since I'm soooo missing the mark on my own, I thought I'd strip it down to the bare minimum and see if anyone is willing to try their hand at a new floorplan based on this crude map of how I'd like the house laid out. I'm so hoping there's something still willing to work with me. mrspete? lavendar? gwlake? you all seem both competent AND forgiving... :D (And gwlake --- I would love to learn more about Acadian homes (both layout and history)! Any links you recommend?)

    Piano must go somewhere w/ sight lines to living room (preferably not IN the living room, and not facing a wall/corner). I'm cool w/ it in the "hall" or "foyer" areas.

    NEED 3 car garage. This is SD. We have two seasons: heavy snow and heavy hail. Two SUVs and two motorcycles.

    Master suite needs 2-person shower. Guest suite needs large tub.

    Don't need a fireplace, but do like the TV to be visible from kit/din as well as living. (My "moment of peace" right now is when the TV is on and my son is eating breakfast. Shhh don't judge my parenting skillz.)

    I want this mudroom (see below <3 <3 <3 ) and really want it to be for both the garage and the guest entrance. (I was in it personally a few years ago when it was a showcase home and just loved it.) We also need a large mud closet to store HOCKEY GEAR (super bulky stuff and we like to store it on a large pegboard wall so it airs out, husband prefers it be in a heated space because wearing cold hockey gear is like putting on wet socks.)

    Traditional Entry · More Info

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    Don't know if I'll get a chance, but I'd like to play. :)

  • chelwa
    7 years ago

    This very similar to a process I used recently. I took a schematic type diagram of how I wanted rooms to relate (bedrooms/bathrooms on the north, living/dining/kitchen on the south) and then went through and applied patterns from Christopher Alexander's A Pattern Language book to that. That book (and the more accessible Patterns of Home book) focus on principles or "patterns" that make a house homey and livable. This forced me to focus on how the house would work for me before focusing on the nitty gritty details. (I posted the result in the Smaller Homes forum)

    I would love to take a poke at this, though I am in the middle of finishing my thesis so I probably shouldn't. I do have a couple questions though. Do you have limitations on size/footprint? Do you want two stories or are you open to one story?

  • arialvetica
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Yay, I'm glad I haven't scared off the entire internet w/ my harrumphing! :)

    To answer the first few

    (1) We believe ~2500 sq ft would be just right for us, obviously depending on how it's used. (Current house is ~3200 sq ft and feels like a lot of wasted space, though we love our living/dining/kitchen/toy run, as evidenced by ALL of my drafted floorplans obsessively including an exact replica. I AM open to alternatives, but this arrangement REALLY works for us.)

    (2) For now, we're assuming $180/sqft (main level) and $80/sqft (upper level), and trying to keep the build cost around $400k. (Those estimates came from our builder, assuming the quality of finishes we have in our current home, which we are comfortable with.)

    (3) I'm open to a 4BR single story but that would set the build budget around $450,000, and our goal is to keep it under $400,000. We could technically spend more if push came to shove, but we have a goal to be debt-free by a certain date. :)

    Any more questions? This Q&A is more fun than my earlier "trail-and-failure" ;)


  • mrspete
    7 years ago

    Perhaps if you want people to help you, and you don't want to feel that you're involved in "trial and failure", you should consider that when 100% of the people tell you ____ is a problem, you consider that they just might be right.

  • arialvetica
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Mrspete, that's where I'm at. I really do want to find an idea that solves the problems everyone is pointing out, without creating new problems.

  • arialvetica
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Do you think there is a problem with the most recent "plan" as well?

  • amg765
    7 years ago

    If the hockey gear can't live in the garage, could you put storage for it in/next to the laundry room instead? That eliminates the need to fit a huge closet into the entryway.

  • arialvetica
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I didn't like him carrying his hockey bag across the house in our previous home. He's careful but sometimes the bag scuffs the walls. But maybe if all the hallways were super wide? I don't know. Keeping it in the current mud closet has worked well. No scuffed walls, no cold gear, no stinky gear (some men just keep their gear in the bag instead of cleaning it and airing it out)...everyone is happy with the mudroom hockey situation. :)

  • amg765
    7 years ago

    Except that from the critiques you are getting, fitting that big closet in the entry is one of the things causing design problems. If you really don't want him carrying the bag through the house (although an open floor plan and scrubbable paint make scuff marks less of an issue) then you could put a door between the garage and the laundry room. That way he could come in, hang up his gear, and throw his sweaty underarmour, socks, etc. directly from his bag into the wash, and none of it ever enters the living areas of the house.

    One other thought- instead of building a 3 car garage have you considered just having an attached 2 car garage for your SUVs and building a separate small garage for the motorcycles? It might offer more flexibility for the house layout, you could get the bikes out without moving a car, and I'm assuming that if it's warm enough to ride it's warm enough to walk outside to get to the bike ;)

  • Architectrunnerguy
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    "Mrspete, that's where I'm at. I really do want to find an idea that solves the problems everyone is pointing out, without creating new problems."

    In that respect designing a small house is a lot like solving Rubik's Cube. Unfortunately, too many owners and too many designers are able to convince owners that it's ok to have a yellow square in the middle of the blue side.

    In more ways than not coming up with a well designed small house is harder than designing a skyscraper where there's a lobby/ground floor with numerous identical floors atop. It's a task easily underestimated.

  • gwlake
    7 years ago

    I will gather up some information for you regarding Acadian style.

  • Lavender Lass
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Can you bump out the hockey closet into the garage? Then make the garage a little bigger? It would give you 'heated' storage and line up the front door more with the hallway in the house.

    You could also flip your sunroom 90 degrees and have more east light! Just an idea...hope it helps :)


  • chookchook2
    7 years ago

    Hi again. Ok, I understand the importance of the 3car garage because of the 2seasons, snow or hail. Because of this, I think you should have another living area, even if it just holds a couple of chairs and a TV. As the parent of teens, we have used our outdoors as a second living area, all teens need somewhere to get away from parental figures (they see us as aliens). Or they need space from an annoying sibling. Or you need space from them.

  • marthaelena
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    A lot of issues with this plan, can be solved by placing the foyer between the kitchen and garage - at least, that's where I'd start. Kind of where LL placed the motorcycle. This way you can have a window in the kitchen and you will not be interrupting the kitchen flow. You will get easy access to second floor, see the living room as you enter and be very close to the kitchen for your groceries and friends.

    The only small issue with this is that the stairway needs to be rearranged a bit.

    As a matter of fact, the stairs do not need to change, you can shift kitchen counters because you do not need the door interruption anymore.

    The garage shape could change too, and it could be pushed back and even with foyer.

    Porch can be placed by the new foyer location and extended all the way to the toy room if desired.

    Hope this helps.

  • gwlake
    7 years ago

    I have no issue with creating an informal home. As I said, we grew up with a foyer literally in the back of the house. I spoke with my Mother last night. She said two problems with that house. Teenagers above her bedroom and no place for teenagers to go within her viewing distance downstairs. We had a strict no boy policy upstairs. She said she did love the foyer in the back with the laundry/mudroom on the right and kitchen on the left.

  • gwlake
    7 years ago

    I am having difficultly finding information about the interiors. However, from my recollection the homes opened to the living areas. Even my Mom and Dad's newer home. Not a "formal" entry. It is a large room flanked with wood Columns being the room definition. The back of the home is reserved for all guests. But you do not have garages so to speak. But carpets. The local neighbors and friends use the back door which looks like an entry.

  • gwlake
    7 years ago

    Let me also say this. I have never been in a single home in my life. House hunting, visiting that opened into the kitchen. I have been in homes with no foyer. But the house opens into a large open living room.

  • chelwa
    7 years ago

    What do you think? I tried to keep as close to your original attempt as possible since you said it was based on layout that worked for you but address some of the concerns mentioned. I think it is about 1900 on the first floor. It should be pretty close to the original you posted.


    arialvetica thanked chelwa
  • mrspete
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    ArielVettica, Yes, I think the new plan still has significant flaws. We understand your must-haves, but you're not listening to what people are telling you about very real problems -- the entry being the most significant. You keep saying, "But my current house functions this way", and we're all thinking, "If that's not a problem, why are you leaving it?" It all has to do with function, not level of formality.

    GWLake, Your experience with foyers is not atypical.

    Chelwa, This layout is a big improvement. Running a room across the front -- I think I'd call it a Flex Room because it could be most anything: a toy room, an office, a workout room, a sitting room, a music room -- and it could change over the years -- but this room gives the plan a needed "away space" AND it gives a place to greet guests / let them feel that they've "arrived" before they plunge into the heart of the home. The large closet to the side will work well for the aforementioned coats and hockey gear. I'd add pocket doors to each side so this room could be closed off from the main house when it suits the family's purposes.

    The kitchen is still large and located to the front of the house, but guests can now skirt the "edges" of the kitchen -- on either side -- rather than being thrown into the middle of the action.

    I still think that 12x7ish alcove with laundry and who knows what else isn't working well.

    And I'm concerned that the dining area isn't deep enough for comfort.

    I'd like to see that master bath brought "into the rectangle" so it isn't an expensive-to-build bump-out.

    And the house still needs a back door somewhere for fire safety.

    arialvetica thanked mrspete
  • live_wire_oak
    7 years ago

    Sometimes people living in less than optimum functioning spaces get used to the dysfunction. People can get used to a lot of things. That doesn't make the spaces ''work''. It makes the people adaptable. However, it usually blinds the people to better function, because they have adapted, and simply cannot see or understand something that they have not personally experienced.
    Start over. with professional help.


  • chookchook2
    7 years ago

    Your space needs will definitely increase as the kids get older, and you won't get back any moving costs. Better to plan for future needs.

  • paraveina
    7 years ago

    Are you in an area that basements are easy to include? If so, can you have a walkout basement? If so, why not put a second garage in the basement instead of a 3rd bay on the ground level? (Apologies if you've already explained some where why you don't want/can't have a basement).

  • gwlake
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Do you have a lot plan and the dimensions? I also want to know the ages of your children. I bring this up because kids are messy (ha). Here is how the day goes in my house. We get back from school. In this rental we come from the garage and walk through a tiny laundry room. My three kids, kick of their shoes. Never putting the shoes where they go without a few reminders. Their pack packs never end up on the hooks. It's a daily mess. Their is no way I want people to enter my home in this area.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    Sorry but I get the distinct feeling that Arialvetica wants it her way only and has closed herself to suggestions to make the house work well. I say this because this is what she posted in the Smaller House forum:


    "I came to this forum wondering the same thing. I'm getting a lot of flack in the building forum for not wanting a 100 sq ft formal foyer devoted to impressing guests. Hoping to get some more practical/mindful advice on the small house group, even though our "small house" is going to be approx 2500 sq ft at the end of the day! :)"


    As I pointed out to her in the smaller house forum, "it's not flack for not having a 100 sq foot foyer to impress guests. it's you not having any entry other than through the mudroom and into the kitchen. There are ways to combine a mudroom entry and main entry."

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    Personally I think LWO said it best. As humans we are adaptable to almost any situation or living area. I have found that to be true with the differences in my two living areas now; my one in NY and my one in FL.

    We have a home in FL and one in NY. Both homes are approximately 1920 square feet with 3 bedrooms. In NY we have 3 baths and in FL only 2. Ask both of us and we both prefer the FL space even with one less bathroom because it is so much better designed for the way we live.

    In FL we have a walk in closet designed by California Closets. Everything has a place inside the closet. In NY (where we rent as opposed to own) we also have a walk in closet but have 1 row of those wire shelves for hanging clothes and a few shelves for shoes, etc. In FL, DH has a 6 drawer dresser in the bedroom and I have a 5 drawer built in dresser in the closet. In NY we have to share a 6 drawer dresser. However we adapt.

    In the FL kitchen, I have mostly drawers for my pots and pans. In NY there are only pull out shelves inside the cabinets. Also the cabinets are much narrower and I can only get a 2 pots in a cabinet. The microwave above the range in NY and in FL I have a MW drawer. In FL my refrigerator is a french door which holds a ton of stuff. In NY it's a side by side and I can barely get anything in the freezer. In FL we have a farm sink with a great sprayer. In NY we have a 2 bowl sink which can't even fit my dutch oven and a sprayer that doesn't work. However we adapt.

    My shower head in FL is on one of those bars that slide up and down so I can move it where I need it. In NY it's too high for me to even reach. In FL our shower is 6' x 3'. Here it's barely 3' x 3' and the handle comes off if I turn it the wrong way. I almost dropped it on my foot. In FL I have medicine cabinets and lots of under sink storage. In NY we only have a set of drawers between the two sinks. However we adapt.

    My W/D in FL are side by side FL full size and built into the closet with shelves for sorting. In NY they are a stackable apartment sized unit in a hall closet with no shelves or anything else to sort. I wind up sitting on the floor sorting and spraying and when done I carry everything to my bedroom to sort. Additionally in NY, there is no vent, so each time the dryer is used the water container needs to be carried to the bathroom to be emptied. However we adapt.

    In my FL studio there is a place for everything. I had shelves built into the cabinets and my desk is a long slab on top of two end cabinets against the full width window wall. This gives me a view out to the bay and beyond. Heaven. In NY my view is the other side of the building and some houses and the closet consists of one hanging bar. I have my drawing paper laying on the floor because there's no space to store it. In FL, my computer which I use to hone in on details of my photos I use when I'm drawing is to my right. In NY it's behind me so if I want to look at a detail, I need to stop and turn around. However I adapt.

    I could go on and on about the difference in the two spaces. If I didn't have my FL space, I probably would have said, like you, that NY works fine for us. However living the differences I can tell you that while we adapt for the 5 months we're in NY, we both find living in our FL home a lot more enjoyable and comfortable.

    It's not only what works but also how to make the space the best for its surrounding area and for your enjoyment. I started a thread about design and several of the professionals have posted some excellent advice. I highly recommend you read it and then start thinking outside the box because while what you have so may be "fine", just like it is for us in NY, the truth is it could be a heck of a lot better. And the only way to realize that is to figure out what your real needs are and how they relate not only to your family but to your site and where you live.

  • chookchook2
    7 years ago

    Geepers.

  • arialvetica
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Posted a possible modification that addresses some of these concerns (but probably introduces new ones because I have no idea what I'm doing!)

    Would love feedback: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3294948/new-plan-idea-seeking-feedback-before-i-delve-further

    Met with our builder last night and he's definitely a master builder, not a master architect. No big surprise there. :) I set up an initial consult with one architect today and am waiting to hear back from another one. I'm not sure if our small potatoes build will be worth an architect's time, but I suppose the answer is no until you ask.