You really will not have access to most of the master closet. If it's that narrow, it really can't be a walk-in. Also you can't have a pocket for a pocket door in the same wall as plumbing in it, unless the wall is about double thickness.

Is this an existing house being remodeled? The windows straddling part of the shower, in front of the toilet and behind the kids' beds are all problematic.

It appears like you have a privacy panel next to the toilet? As drawn it would make the entry into the shower maybe 21" wide?

Because of the door position into the bathroom, the person in the right side of the bed has a pretty good partial view of the toilet and a straight on view into the bathroom from the bed is not ideal. I would try shifting the door to the top and having one long vanity with two sinks, and try to shift the toilet and shower so you don't have a direct view of the toilet when you first walk to the bathroom.

It's meant to be about 4' deep. (And the hallway is meant to be about 4' wide). Do you think that works?

palimpsest -- it's a rough draft for our first planning meeting with the builder. We JUST bought our lot.

I like how the kids bath doubles as a powder room!

i think you can end up with a much better solution for the master suite. I wouldn't waste exterior wall space on a closet, especially on two sides, and you have more hall (dead) space than needed.

I'd close off the hall right after the kids door and put the door to the master there. Put the bedroom in what is now the closet corner, put the closet where the bed is now, and reconfigure the bath in the new space. If you want french doors, put them on the bathroom entrance where you can enjoy them. With little kids, that's a lot of door to bang on and a lot of glass to be careful about, at least from what I've seen of little kids :-)

You need 2 feet just for hanging space. 4 feet would make for a tight squeeze. I like williamsem's suggestion of moving the door to the master suite.

Our current master has french doors (not glass) that I like, but don't find necessary. I like that they make the master feel more special, but I think I could achieve a similar "special" feeling with a tray ceiling or something like that. Now that I think about it, we keep one of the two doors shut most of the time!

I <3 williamsem's ideas -- gonna draft them and post them for review the next time I don't have kids hanging off all my limbs! :D

I guesstimated the measurements, but here's one idea. Those are long transom windows over the shower and bed. I'm imagining one kick-ass closet system along the right closet wall, which would leave a manageable 30 inch walkway (I'm sure if that's too tight for code someone will chime in, I really have no idea). That's a linen closet/cabinet along the pony wall.

This one I think has a few extra feet top to bottom, I'm still trying to figure out how to move parts of walls in this program. Someone might be able to beat this idea into the right amount of space, I'm headed to work shortly.

Here are some cut and paste changes

Kids': Most compartmentalized bathrooms have the vanity in one portion and the toilet and tub/shower in another. I'd also add a window to the kids' bedroom. (It's a general housing tenet to have windows on two walls wherever you can.)

Master Suite: I'd have the MBR on the outside corner where you could have more windows and the bathroom and closet more interior. (Certainly the closet interior.) A closet along the wall with the living area would also provide sound insulation.

Will there be a regular laundry room elsewhere in the house? This is really small for a family home -- and oddly placed.

I can't evaluate layouts--plumbing and all that stuff--but I like Pal's plan. Note that the MB vanity allows three drawer stacks. This is not a 60" two-sink vanity with no room between sink and wall. We have that and whoever uses that sink has to stand off-center for comfort. With this vanity, which is probably a 72" vanity, you have a his and hers drawer stack on each end plus a larger stack of drawers in the middle. One could be a deep drawer for towels since you don't have a linen closet. It also allows plenty of wall space for separate mirrors and side sconces. Too often I see where people install a 60" vanity and plan to fit two mirrors and sconces on the wall and then find out there's no room.

chisue, I think in this case the compartmentalization allows the room to act as a "powder room" for guests while leaving the tub area only for the kids. I think it's a good solution for this purpose.

chisue, the south wall (kids room, bath, etc) is set into a hill. Any windows in that room would have dirt against them, unfortunately! :) palimpsest is correct about powder bathroom's intent that guests could use the basin+toilet without seeing the shower clutter.

I really like the direction both williamset and palimpsest are headed. I'm going to try to incorporate these ideas. I'm sure I'll miss the mark, so please don't give up on me when I post my next draft. :)

You guys... this is as far as I have gotten. LOL. I might have to leave this one to professionals!

(Obviously there won't be two doors into the suite, but I put both options in there.)

How long/often will the kids be using the 'powder room'? (One using vanity; one using toilet.) How often will it be used by guests? In our 'starter home' the hall bath was a full bath -- and used for guests. You won't have bath toys in there *forever*. LOL

Sorry, I missed the hillside build.

A 'reach-in' closet can give you more storage than some 'walk-in' closets. I had a wall of these (with pairs of wide louver doors) in a previous home.

Ok, I admit I'm having fun learning how to merge rooms and draw walls. But I do think this idea has some merit. Easier access to the bathroom for times when the other one is out of commission and a small retreat for a few quiet moments. I'm always in favor of more ideas.

This one adds a linen closet in the hall. You could put a pass through in the bottom for laundry if you want, and it would make a good home for the vacuum.

This has nothing to do with the question (bathrooms), but I'll say it anyway. I love to play the piano. I would probably never play it if I were relegated to the laundry room/bathroom when doing so. With a new build, surely you can find a better place for it.

Oh, but I do have a comment about the bathroom. I would want to be able to turn the water on and off from inside the shower.

Thank you all for the wonderful feedback! I'm trying to respond to all of it so I can get more more more of your thoughts. :)

**PIANO**

catbuilder, I'd love your thoughts on the piano placement. I am the pianist in the family, but I anticipate my children will take lessons when they are old enough. In my current house, the piano has its own room (formerly a dining room) with sight lines to the main living area. I like the sight lines to the living area (I will often go play while the kids are playing or hubby is watching soccer), but don't like that the rest of the room is just wasted space. I *think* I would like the new piano placement because of the sight lines thing, without being *in* the living room, but I can see what you're saying too about it feeling like a hallway/laundry space. Maybe a statement light fixture and some artwork could give it an "inglenook" feel instead of a "hall/laundry feel?" Would love to discuss this further with a fellow pianist. :)

Here's the piano room in the OLD floorplan, for reference:

Totally off topic but what software are you using for the design layout?

**Shower on/off valve**

Does anyone know if there's a way to turn the water on/off at two different points? I don't like to turn the shower on while I'm standing there and get blasted with cold water, but it would be nice to turn the water off without exiting the shower.

** anticipated "powder" usage **

I suspect it will be the baby's room for ~5 years (longer if we make more babies). We'll bathe both of our children there (until they're old enough to bathe themselves). (My older son will be in an upstairs room, but we'll get him ready for bed in this bathroom at the same time as our baby girl.) When the kids are old enough to want their own rooms upstairs, this will be a guest room (w/ a queen bed) and our most frequent guests will be my parents (who appreciate a full bath+shower).

About twice a week I have people+kids over for coffee (so the bathroom nearest the kitchen gets a lot of traffic!)

** master closet **

I'm open to a reach-in closet. Most important to me is room for LOTS of drawers! I think I ultimately need approx 20-25 linear feet for drawers/hanging/hampers. And if the entrance to the closet is through the bath, a closet door is optional.

ceezeecz -- I'm using FloorPlanner.com. Certainly not professional grade work, but good for visualizing how things fit together. :)

What do you guys think of this configuration? I'm liking it, but I like hearing any red-flags I might not have noticed on my own. (Also is this too many windows for a bathroom? My husband went a little window-wild over my shoulder.)

(The yellow/purple boxes off to the side are the sizes of spaces in my old house, which both seemed to work well. In the new plan the shower is a smidgen bigger and the WC is a smidgen smaller.)

Where are you going to hang or fold your clothes as they come out of the washer/dryer?

Currently I have a spacious laundry room. I take the clothes out of the dryer, put them in a laundry basket, carry the laundry basket to the living room / kitchen and fold while watching TV or while I'm standing in the kitchen supervising kids, cooking dinner, etc.

I will put in a hanging rod over the washer/dryer/sink for hang-dry things. And under the sink I'd like to have a few drawer-like racks for lay-flat-to-dry things. (Hope that makes sense -- I haven't seen this done anywhere but I figure anything is possible right?)

My friend gave me this many years ago for my laundry room and I love it! Things dry quickly and it folds totally out of sight when not in use.

http://www.amazon.com/Leifheit-83250-Telegant-Mounted-Clothes/dp/B001P5HNDG

In the latest design the inside of the shower is shallow for that showerhead position.

The closet is too narrow for hanging on both sides. Hanging on both sides really asks for about 6-1/2 feet minimum.

palimpsest -- What is the minimum recommended depth? This is the same depth as my current shower, which I have been using for 3 years, but I'm definitely open to adjusting it if you could give some recommended dimensions. Or maybe I could rotate the showerhead this way?

I made the closet a little bigger and used EasyClosets's automatic design tool to arrange the shelving. (I've used Easy Closets for 8 closets so far. Love them!)

And because I'm having fun designing my closet...

227" linear hanging, (2) 24" hampers, 480" linear drawer space

Can you show the floor plan for the whole floor?

The controls for the shower don't have to be next to or under the shower head. I would put them within reach of the door/entrance (on the inside of the shower), but out of the way of the spray. Or you could put in a toe tester, which is like a small bathtub spout mounted low.

Yep, here's the current floorplan for both downstairs and up! It's a work in progress. I moved the shower controls over where you suggested--I think that'll be perfect!

We have a recirculating pump on our hot water line. Hot water arrives at every tap in the house in under five seconds.

A properly set up system doesn't even need a pump to circulate the hot water. But 5 seconds of cold water is a long 5 seconds.

cat -- Single story house w/natural gas water heater tanks. Are you staying we could have done gravity flow?

as I said in the building a house forum your walk in shower is way too large. Your home is too small to give up that much space to a master bath. no one needs an 8' square shower. I like what Palimpset did. Simple and doesn't waste space that could be better used elsewhere.

Are there any guidelines on recommended shower depth? I'm getting conflicting feedback on whether the shower is too big or too small! We currently have a two-person walk-in shower and love it. It's one of our favorite features in our current home and we use it almost every day. Someone had a crass suggestion for its use on another thread, but the simple fact is our schedules often have us showering at the same time daily, and we love getting ready together in the morning, discussing our plans for the day, etc. We could give up this favorite moment of our daily life and survive without it....but why?

Palimpsest has already drawn up and suggested the very idea I was going to put forward -- except that I would've placed the toilet behind a pony wall instead of keeping it in a closet, and I would've downsized to one sink /allowed more storage. This general layout makes the most of your space.

This layout gives you space to enter the shower (which the original picture did not), and it allows you the oversized shower you want.

Note on shower controls: You do not want them outside the shower, as shown in the original design. Ideally you want them to be located JUST INSIDE the shower so that you can reach in your arm and turn them on before you enter the shower ... but you also want to be able to adjust them up/down once you're in the shower ... and, for that, you don't want to leave the shower and walk around the corner.

How big should a shower be? In my opinion, 3 1/2' wide is the "sweet spot". Plenty wide enough so you don't knock your arms against the sides, plenty wide enough that you can install grab bars without interfering with your space, even wide enough to be luxurious without being ridiculous ... yet not so large that the space is cold. Length is more difficult to pin down. For one person, I think 4-5' is ideal, add another foot if you intend to install a seat or place a moveable stool at one end. I'm not interested in the two-person shower concept, but I'd assume that it would remain the same 3 1/2' wide and would need to be 1.5 Xs as long as you'd consider "just right" for one person.

You are, however, in this small house, devoting an inordinate amount of space to this master bath. And the oversized shower will come at a premium price. Does that fit in with your overall thoughts and plans?

I hate the laundry's location. Our first house had the laundry right next to the living room, and it was always SO LOUD! Plus you have no space to store baskets of clothes waiting to enter the laundry, which means they'll probably end up piled in front of the piano and the powder room -- right in everyone's view.

I'd consider moving the laundry to the spot where the powder room is now. This would allow you to vent the dryer straight to the outside (cheaper and safer), and it might allow you to move the bathroom door to the hallway /more out of the line of sight of all the public rooms.

Oh, and the kids' bath: I like the layout, though I would remove the door between the tub and the sink/toilet. I don't like overly compartmentalized bathrooms, especially with small kids, and a single tub just by itself in a room is kind of ... odd.

With Palimpsest's 2-person shower, I'm confused about where the water goes. To me it looks like it would fly all over the floor? Here's my current shower that I like. No glass doors to clean. And despite the vaulted ceiling, it's quite warm (or maybe I'm just not a wuss? LOL)

I DO think that THIS bathroom (pictured) wastes a lot of space.

Water in a shower like P. drew would flow into a linear shower drain.

Since the shower is clearly a focal point for you, I think you need to clarify exactly what you want:

- JUST an oversized two-person shower?

- A barrier-free shower?

- A door-free shower?

- How many shower heads?

- What other features?

Yes, the above picture IS a space-waster, but a part of that wasted space is the around-the-corner shower design.

You can have a glass shower and avoid the chore of cleaning glass: Four times a year rub down your glass with Rain-X (the stuff meant for your car's windshield). Water'll just bead down the glass without leaving a mess. One hour a year, and you don't have to waste the space OR have a dark shower ... and in between, you literally never have to think about the glass.

I didn't realize Rain-X was an option! I would 100% be okay with a glass shower if it was truly that little maintenance. :)

I think my main points are: accommodate two people, one showerhead for each person, and low-maintenance (the Rain-X works for me). I want it to be tiled with two niches for storing shampoo, etc. I don't need a bench, but I would like a small ledge where I could rest a foot while shaving legs. I'm okay with a door or doorless, so long as it's low-maintenance.

Do you think that covers all of the parameters? I'm finding all this discussion so helpful, since we'll have a clear idea of what we do/don't need when we meet with the builder to work on the floorplan. :)

"Someone had a crass suggestion for its use on another thread, but the simple fact is our schedules often have us showering at the same time daily, and we love getting ready together in the morning, discussing our plans for the day, etc. We could give up this favorite moment of our daily life and survive without it....but why?"

That was me joking that the size of your shower as shown was more conducive to an orgy.

No one is saying you should give up showering together. My DH and I like to shower together too. However you DO NOT need an 8' x 8' shower to do so. My shower now is 3' x 6' with 2 shower heads, and is still too big for the both of us. In our new build, we're putting in a 3' x 5' shower.

Also do you currently have an open shower with no door?

MrsPete said, "Palimpsest has already drawn up and suggested the very idea I was going to put forward -- except that I would've placed the toilet behind a pony wall instead of keeping it in a closet, and I would've downsized to one sink /allowed more storage. This general layout makes the most of your space."

Here I strongly disagree with Mrspete on both counts especially since you are both getting ready together in the morning. Trying to share ONE sink while both are getting ready is not easy. And having to do one's morning stuff in an open bathroom while the other is trying to dry hair or shave, is even less appealing.

Even better than Rain-x is Showergard which is built into the glass itself.

cpartist, our current shower is pictured a few posts up (doorless, but it does have a curb). It occupies a 6 x 6.5 ft rectangle (I'm not at that house right now so I can't measure the exact interior dimensions---will measure this next time we are in our home state). The inside spot feels a smidgen tight (possibly because there is a bench). The outside spot is great, but the showerhead has to be aimed at the right angle to prevent spillage. That said -- it has been working just fine for 3 years. I'm open to a different size or configuration, and I am definitely open to glass (either as a wall or a door) if the maintenance really is as simple as a quarterly Rain-X treatment! :) I'd love to see your recommended layout for the most efficient two-person shower!

I didn't know doorless was a requirement for the shower.

A few posts up: "I'm okay with a door or doorless, so long as it's low-maintenance."

I don't know why people are finding the need to tell you what you do or don't need. If a large shower is what makes you happy, then do it, regardless of the size of the rest of the house. And just because someone else finds a certain size adequate for them doesn't mean it will work for you.

I may have missed this before, but are you working with an existing plan and trying to make it fit, or do you have an architect designing this for you?

Thanks catbuilder. I kind of take it all with a grain of salt. Some is helpful (I had forgotten that an exterior wall is best for laundry) and some is personal/regional (we live in a part of the country with two seasons: heavy snow and hail---no way am I skimping on garage space!) :)

I am basically trying to make my last build floor plan (a) friendly for single floor living and (b) waste less sq footage on rooms we never/rarely use. (Which is why when people say they don't like the great room I just roll my eyes because I have LOVED my great room these past 3 years and entertain 2x a week now because my floor plan is so good for the type of entertaining that I do--casual coffee parties with kids playing underfoot, family dinners with friends, and grown up game nights after bedtime.

YOU need to decide how large a shower is large enough for you two. You can do glass without a lot of maintenance. We keep a squeegee in the shower; takes a minute. You'll save space and have a less institutional look if you use a glass door.

Look at the Guardian Glass Company's website to see their ShowerGuard product that is baked INTO the glass as it is being manufactured; 10-year replacement warranty.

I love having two sinks in our MBA. Home buyers do too.

I love my big, recessed medicine cabinets w/electrical outlets.

I love the 'linen closet' in the bathroom to store towels...and a ton of junk. I don't like under-sink storage, i.e. 'vanities'.

I appreciate a window in the toilet room.

I think a large family room is a good idea. I like that you are doing a larger shower instead of a shower and tub.

We recently moved from the snow belt where we lived over 30 years. The newer houses had 3 car garages, but in almost every garage, there were only two cars and sometimes one. People tend to store "stuff" in the garage. (We are guilty too).

In our house we built 15 years ago, we did a 2 1/2 car garage with extra space in the rear. I would choose more room in the house and do a oversized two car garage, but make the garage extra wide and deep. Some of the 3 car garages have no storage on the sides or in the back. Therefore the 3rd stall is all storage.

I think you would be wise to have a mudroom/ laundry room between the garage and house.

It would also be nice to try and change the living room to where the kitchen/dining area is and move the kitchen/dining area to where the LR is now.