Planning my autumn orders...

8 years ago

last modified: 8 years ago

On Friday, Beales sent me an email about a free package & postage offer at the moment which prompted a good 20 minute pondering, and a decidely guilty start when I remembered it was the middle of the workday. Yes, work, that thing that enables me to buy roses... ahem.
Been out in my out of control garden today, between mum and work I've neglected it horribly. However, the absence has enabled a good look at how the roses are doing wihout me, and I've picked out some clear winners and losers.
My baby teas are thriving. Le Vesuve is 4ft across, but only 18 inches tall.

The General Schablikine is tiny - apart from the 3ft 6 vertical cane!

Mme Antoine Mari is a graceful 2ft 6 by 3ft.

All of them contantly have a bloom - I gave up on disbudding because I'd have a busy few days and come back and there would be new ones. My precious own root Mutablis that I was gifted is the same, forming a small neat hummock and constantly in bloom.

Both my ladies H (climbing and bush) are growing on nicely
, and again always with a flower or two. Really looking forward to seeing some size on them.

Gruss an Teplitz is looking good, had one cluster of delicious cherry blooms but it's concentrating on growth - it's about 3ft tall.

Leonie Viennot is a good 8 ft across, sideways in her pot and also blooming already. I will have to decide on a permanent home very soon I think. Either I will grow her over my shed, and Mme Gregoire Stachelin can decorate a stretch of fence in the back of the pink bed or vice versa. I guess it depends which will train flattest and most horizontally and which would do better galumphing over the shed in an unstructured manner. Or a third party I suppose if neither are suitable.

Roses that aren't doing so well:

DA Eglantyne; horribly blackspotted, not terribly vigorous and threatening powdery mildew on what foliage it has left. It's had two places in the garden - full sun and part shade and has been miserable after the first flush in both. I think it needs a more consistent watering programme than I'm willing to provide, and I agree with whoever suggested it probably needs spraying too, which it will not be getting.

Kordes Alchymist; this rose is 4 years old. I don't know if I got a bad clone or what, but it blackspots, it mildews, it gets wierd brown crud, and it rusts at the end of summer. Basically from the end of the spring flush to autumn it looks terrible. The blooms are really very pretty but only for about 30 seconds and only if they don't get botyris and ball. I shoved it behind a rhododendron in the hopes it would climb through it decoratively but, it turns out they aren't quite aligned in bloom, so my purple rhodo was festooned with dirty yellow brown blobs. Not quite the effect I wanted.

Lots of others are too new to comment on. Jude has redeemed himself by blooming nicely, so he gets a stay.

Guinee has been exiled to behind the compost bins and I just go and cut blooms for the vase.

SDLM... well, there's a lot I like about it, but frustratingly it's blooms are never that beautiful powder pink I see in others photos - more a creamy flesh colour and I'm really not that ķeen on it. I'm hoping it'll grow out of it at three.

Not loving Kronprinzessin Victoria it's developed what I gather is bourboun crud- which is a shame because St Anne's is never without flowers and healthy to boot, and SDLM itself is clean as a whistle.

So for next year, I'm contemplating Duchesse d'Auerstadt to replace Alchymist and Sombreuil (the probably wichurana hybrid, not-tea) to grow on an arch. However, depending upon feedback, I might swap them over, or even pick something else. Health, scent and floriferousness are important in that order.

Don't have a clue about a replacement for Eglantyne - I'm open to persuasion!

Oh, and last but not least, Souvenir Du Dr Jamain is being relegated to a shady corner from the central iron arch - it absolutely fried this year, despite some partial shade so I need a replacement, something healthy, dark red that doesn't need spraying, small climber, ideally reblooms and will look good with Etoile de Hollande on the other side - SdDrJ always looked a bit purple in comparison and never looked quite right, but I forgave for the lovely scent. But despite being floriferous, I barely got to enjoy a single bloom this year, most of them cooked and never opened, so he has to move home.

Whew, that was wordy. I'll try to edit with some pictures to break up the monotony!

Featured Answer

ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

8 years ago

How nice that you're growing some teas that I have, Le Vesuve and Mme. Antoine Mari. My Le Vesuve (both of them) love to grow sideways but I don't care, I love them anyway. It sounds as though Eglantyne is not meant for your garden. Never mind, there are lots of other roses. My Kronprinzessin Viktoria von Preussen is gone but SdlM (always pink) and a new Souvenir de St. Anne's remain. Unfortunately Mme. Cornelissen also dwindled away. Roses pretty well have to tell you how they feel about your real estate. I'll move something once but after than it's bye-bye if it's still not flourishing and healthy. Fortunately your climate is much kinder than mine but every garden has its challenges.

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Comments (27)

User
8 years ago
..I'm pleased your roses are generally doing rather well for you and that you are essentially pleased with most of them.... your grafted 'Le Vesuve' is much bigger than my little own root plant... it's a pity the individual blooms don't last just a little bit longer on the bush...

...I decided to give away my Leonie Viennot to friends who have a larger garden and I'm glad I did as it's obviously a vigorous rose in the making.... and might have been too much for me here..

...be great to see some photos sometime...
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This time last year, found myself digging & potting established garden beds next to the house in an intensive effort to preserve plants from a small crew tasked with tearing off & replacing our large & complex roof (storm damage). Some big roses & shrubs were protected in place with scaffolds for tarps. Several hundred plants, along with 60 or so roses, were parked on rows of landscape fabric pinned to the ground & the overflow tucked beneath trees for the duration. Planned to replant them come Spring, but an unusually wet & dreary season prevented working our clay based soil. A two week window of sun & drying ground allowed progress on that plan before unusually high temps struck & continued unabated from mid-June through mid-September. Back to the drawing board, basically ran a temporary nursery throughout the season. New experience for me on that scale with its own learning curve. Usually bring in more roses over the Summer to grow on in pots before planting out, and this year was no exception despite the exceptional circumstances. Seems my Rose Fever accelerated with the heat. So, along the way, I've doubled the number of roses with which I began. Within the last two weeks, these new roses arrived, with more scheduled for the coming week. From A Reverence for Roses, run by a delightful couple who send very well grown & developed bands that grow by leaps & bounds, judging by a prior order (2 Reve d'Or, Aloha & Belinda's Dream): bands of Cato's Cluster - Cornelia - Setzer Noisette - Mme. Caroline Testout, Climbing (2) - Pink Perpetue (2) - Rhode Island Red (2). Total shipping USPS 2-day only $16.65 for 2 boxes & sale 8 bands for $70. From Brushwood, who recently began shipping again: bands of Colette & Garden Sun ordered 2 months ago. From Heirloom's recent sales: gallons of Dancing in the Wind (2) - Double Delight - Highfield (2) - Lady of the Mist - Love Potion - Wedding Bells - bands of Joseph's Coat VID (2). From Northland Rosarium: bands of Colette - Rock & Roll (2). Shipping from A Reverence for Roses, ordered while sale was still on 8 for $70: bands of Aloha - Belinda's Dream - Cato's Cluster - Jaune Desprez - Papillon Rose (2) - Penelope - Pinkie, Climbing (2). In transit from Heirloom sale: gallons of Crepuscule & Portlandia (2). Haven't been this enthusiastic for many years. Succumbed to a now-or-never impulse. Here's hoping for an extended Indian Summer & great success to us all! Sue
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Gorgeous pictures everyone and you've gotten great advice from people closer to your zone. Just a heads-up that you want to be a bit careful where you buy your Reine des Violettes, since there are two versions of the rose circulating other that name. I started with "Not Reine des Violettes", which is both thorny and a once-bloomer - so Ingrid gets the satisfaction of being right even in her temporary "error". The color is lovely and it climbs, and it has the peppery foliage smell, but no rebloom ever on mine. I have now ordered the real RdV from Burlington, who I trust to know that she has the real one, and it's thornless and should be a repeat bloomer. I'm sure other people would have the real one, but do ask if repeat bloom matters to you. Cynthia
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fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8)
Original Author
8 years ago
I like the way you put that, that they tell you how they feel about the real estate - those two are definitely telling me they dislike my garden! I am minded to dig them up and offer them to the good people of the local gardens in bloom circle - I suspect they and a few other odds and ends will find homes, gardeners being gardeners, someone will want to 'rescue' them!
Marlorena, you are right, and I hadn't quite realised it until you said it, but even through the frustration of not being able to tend my garden the way I'd like, (frex all my veg have bolted and the birds have been at the currants and my tomatoes are a dead loss!) the few minutes I have to smell the roses are broadly satisfying, even if they are snatched minutes.

I shall have to take some pictures tomorrow, and you shall see the good, bad and downright ugly - I noticed this morning as threw water at crispy things, that Kronprinzessin Victoria has one fat bud, and a few leaves but is otherwise completely defoliated, and spotty, dotty, Eglantyne is offering one sad, heat shrunk bloom!
User
8 years ago
..your photos above are very nice and look forward to seeing some more.... good and not so good, that's alright, it's all an education....
fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8) thanked User
Poorbutroserich Susan Nashville
8 years ago
Fduk, do you want to replace the Eglantyne with a similar shade? I grow the teas you grow, teas always grow sideways first for me and then fill out. They like to zig zag. Lots of the more recent Austins have much better health, bloom better in heat etc. I have been very happy with St. Cecilia which is beautiful here and healthy with a great fragrance. I also love Harlow Carr. Pat Austin is a super healthy bloomer here and her color is paler than that deep coppery orange. A good substitute for Alchymist if it's not doing well.

G. Nabonnand is a fantastic tea. There is a Beale's rose "Ivor's Rose" that I now believe is being sold as "Flamenco Rosita" (gee...wonder why). It never stops blooming, has never had spot, gets no fertilizer nor extra water. It's super vigorous. Often the blooms are quartered. Deep pink color. Not to much fragrance but good cut with other fragrant roses.

Parade is a climber that doesn't stop here. Ever. Nothing stops it...

Celine Forestier is a beautiful noisette here that is clean and floriferous....

Good luck! Wish I could order from Beales.

Susan
fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8) thanked Poorbutroserich Susan Nashville
fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8)
Original Author
8 years ago
Ugh, I have an afternoon off, and it's chucking it down, no pictures today I think.
Susan, I do consider myself lucky to have access to Beales. And also, being in the EU, to the many continental suppliers.

I do want a similar rose to Eglantyne to replace it - but I'm not wedded to DA's - I only have ten or so and of those Jude is the only one I'm genuinely attached to, athough I like Sharifa a lot too. I'm actually contemplating Beales "Irene Watts" pink gruss sport, I like the the way Marlorena's is shaping up.

List at the moment.

1. Duchesse d'Auerstadt (replace Alchymist)

2. Sombreuil to climb arch. Dithering about a noisette instead - Susan's suggestion of Celine Forrestier feels a bit like mind reading! Unsure though, I've read it can be a bit shy to rebloom here.

3. Mme. Caroline Testout for the shed.

4. Madame Gregoire Stachelin for the back fence.

(Leonie Viennot is going to the full sun spot at the back of the mid pink rose bed)

5. Souvenir De Cladius Denoyel to replace Souvenir Du Dr Jamain who is moving to a shadier spot.

6. Homere as a small pink front of bed Tea.

7. Souvenir d'Alphonse Lavallee - I'm specifically ordering this from Beales as although I could live with getting Einnerunnung an Brod I'd rather not another SdDrJ.

8 & 9. I want two yellow/orange/apricot shade roses. Would like to try some more teas. Dithering between William R. Smith, Clementina Carbonieri and Anna Olivier, unless anyone has better suggestions - I can order from Roseraie du Desert for instance if there's a really good tea in that shade that Beales doesn't have. Will be near Mutablis so some pink of that shade is acceptable, but preferably predominantly in yellow / orangeish. Heath is a premium.

10. Madame Alfred Carriere - I have succumbed, I grieved so giving it to my brother, and I've concocted a cunning plan to grow it up over a fence and arch and onto a red brick wall.

11. Francis Dubreuil aka Barcelona & 12. Hommage a Barbara - these two follow my fine tradition of plonking red roses anyoldhow, based on 'it looks like it would be pretty.'

13. English Miss, as a small bed edger.

14. Purple Skyliner / Perennial Blue / Veilichenblau × 2 to go to the back of the purple/blue border and cover a small area of fence., sort of 6ft by 8ft ish.

In others that I'm undecided about: Isabel, Arthur Sansal, Souer Emmanuelle, and Spong as a companion to The Mayflower.

Thoughts?
User
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
There are better edging roses than English Miss - I have rhapsodised about Sommerwind, Aka Sussex, a little Kordes groundcover which has perfectly prettily shaped blooms (in clusters, absolutely right for a posy or vase - last 2 weeks in water!)and, unlike nearly every other rose which claims continuity, actually is in bloom for 6 months of the year - no deadheading, trimming or faffing needed. A sterling performer although beloved by municipal planners.

Many Happy Returns, although it does fade to white, has always been quick to repeat, healthy and perfectly formed for edging. I turfed mine out because of horrible clashes of pink...and have missed it's demure charm ever since.

Purple Skyliner takes a while to get going but is a pretty rose - only half the size of Veilchenblau though so the 2 are not interchangeable.

Souvenir de Claudius Denoyel needs good living and careful training - has always been a duffer for me but I take responsibility for its failure to thrive - can be awkward and angular, not dissimilar to SdDrJ.

Instead of Spong, you might take a look at a very tough, tiny little centifolia, De Meaux - although small and dainty, this rose is tough and survives even my level of neglect. Mine suffers underneath a large and droopy Jaques Cartier/Marchesa Bocchella.

Teas and chinas think they have died and gone to purgatory (7th level, I think) in my garden so my experience has been conspicuously negative - even mutabilis is a horror.
Poorbutroserich Susan Nashville
8 years ago
Hi to Camps! Camps has much more experience in your climate (are you all the same climate) so I defer to there but if you are interested in Teas/Chinas, Alliance Franco Russe is constantly repeating here and a pretty yellow. Madame Barkley is a pretty apricot. I've grown Clementina, she wasn't much of a grower, and stingy. Perle d'Or is a wonderful smaller rose. and if you don't have Clotilde Soupert you need her. She might be pretty instead of Eglantine. She's mostly white but has a blush center and a wonderful scent and very healthy here. Constant bloom and there is a climbing sport. Have you looked at Msr. Tillier or Mlle. F. Kruger....they are constant bloomers here and in the apricot, deep pink family. The found teas do really well here. I'm not sure what Beales or RdD offer. I think RdD does offer some US found teas.

Celine, for me is never out of bloom. Barcelona is a pretty rose. Not a strong grower here but a great shade.

Check out Ascot....a Kordes rose. Beautiful blooms, healthy, strong, good repeater, antique look. I repeat my suggestion for Flamenco Rosita and Parade. They have that antique look and are true healthy workhorses.

Susan
ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
8 years ago
I don't know if my experience would correspond to yours, but Celine Forestier grew at such a glacial place that I finally gave up on it. With more rain it might be different for you. You wanted apricot in another area but William R. Smith is decidedly not apricot, always a rather light pink. Clementina Carbonieri fried for me, although a lovely rose, but I doubt your conditions are as brutal as mine. A very nice rose otherwise. Miss Atwood is a large tea with a pretty shade of soft apricot, not terribly thorny, a good rose. Carding Mill is a good apricot that blooms a lot and can do well in a hot spot, if you want to try another Austin.
User
8 years ago
...coincidentally, I've just planted a 'Purple Skyliner' and an 'English Miss'... I like the range of colours on PS but perhaps it's not as purple, nor the flowers quite as large as I hoped.... to me it looks like a rambling polyantha...

..EM has nice little buds and pretty flowers, although I tend to use other plants as edgings, like Geraniums, Pennisetums, Uncinia's etc...

...photo of the 4 roses I got the other day... PS at the back showing 2 canes with different colours.....'EM' is at the front with dark foliage...

..I can't comment on your other roses as I don't know them at all... but here are a few of mine that are short growers...

'Unermudliche'... first season, own root... and it's been doing really well, I'm delighted with it... here with Geranium 'Hilary Rendell'...

..we can't get 'Carding Mill' here, but we have this one 'The Lady Gardener' and I love the peachy pink tones... supposed to be weather resistant, and it holds its buds upright without flopping...

...this is another of my favourites ....'The Herbalist'... I'm getting another 2 of these for next season.... this was taken 2 days ago before the rain...

...I'm delighted you are thinking of getting ''Irene Watts''... it's been great so far...
User
8 years ago
Purple Skyliner is a dead ringer for Lens Sibelius - and yep, I would agree, Marlorena - it is very poly-like. Tiny little 2inch (when extended) blooms but it is a very pretty rose which would have a lot of applications in our smaller UK gardens, I think.

Oh Fduk,

I have just come back from the allotment, and O, the burning shame - the cherries have gone unpicked for too long and, for the first time in my life, I have failed to get the fruit in. I am accustomed to the veggie area looking a bit rough (I whine on here every year)...but the fruit bushes! My pride and joy (and secret nightmare when it comes to picking and jamming etc.).

The tomatoes have also lost their pristine cordon shape and side shoots have appeared from nowhere, already in tree-like proportions...and the multiple sowings of french beans 6+ - snails!) has left me with a shambolic chaos of beans at every stage of growth with not a decent meals worth to be picked.

On the plus side, I have earned enough to buy a shipping container for the woods (but on the negative side, it was horrible work for a buy to let landlord (parasite) and was a shabby, sordid business (not us, obvs), never to be repeated.
s
8 years ago
Campanula, been trying to contact you for some feedback on your order from Tuincentrum Lottum but you don't accept PM's. Last year you mentioned that you ordered from them. http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1709083/is-anyone-else-ordering-roses-this-fall?n=40 How was the quality, service? Would you order from them again?

Would be grateful any info.

Sharlene
Buford_NE_GA_7A
8 years ago
Beautiful photos. I can recommend Sombreuil, the climber. The scent and bloom form are outstanding. The only drawback is that the canes can be thick and a bit stiff if you don't get to train them early on. And did I mention the thorns? still a fabulous rose. I have it against a fence and up an arbor. One of my favorites. Does get blackspot, but not horribly so.
fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8) thanked Buford_NE_GA_7A
User
8 years ago
Sharlene - go right ahead - they had some lovely roses - cheap, good quality and good service.
mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9
8 years ago
FDUK, I think your roses are gorgeous!
fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8) thanked mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9
s
8 years ago
Thanks Campanula - had a few doubts but their prices are really good and now you've put my mind at ease - have 20 on my list. The one I am really looking forward to is Massad's Prieuré de St. Cosme!

Sharlene
fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8)
Original Author
8 years ago
The good, bad and ugly... all rather damp. Everythings resting, so mot many roses.
Good...

Margaret Merril, crocosmia and hemerocallis Fragrant Returns.

Charlotte DA and volunteer wheat (thankyou birds!)

Nameless white floribunda (I think)

Carolyn Knight in its most familar pose... shyly peeking

Carolyn Knight and the 6ft cane, reaching for the sky, against a backdrop of shredded lilacs... any ideas as to what's eating them, I've failed to locate a culprit on them so far
fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8)
Original Author
8 years ago
More...
Unknown pink

Unknown red

C

Clematis Sweet Summer Love

Leonie Viennot - the photo does not really convey how sprawly this rose is! Also, is it just me or is this another really variable rose? Mine is decidedly pink, with barely a blush of yellow at the base of the petals.
fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8)
Original Author
8 years ago
The bad...Chewed lilies - note to self lilies are NOT low maintenance due to lily beetle! Hadn't realised how much of a difference twice daily patrols made!

Chewed on daylily
fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8)
Original Author
8 years ago
The ugly...

Unkempt borders

Overgrown veg bed - those purple columns are lettuce!

Last but not least, spotty, datty Eglantyne
mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9
8 years ago
I still think your garden is glorious! Never knew that anything attacked lilies as the only thing bothering them here (day lilies) are snails and slugs. They tend to be pretty bullet proof for me and are drought tolerant as well. Beautiful garden!
User
8 years ago
..nice to see a garden with warts and all... not many of us prepared to do that... I like the woody backdrop very much... lots of things going on, lots of potential.... I gave up on Asiatic lillies due to lily beetle, they destroyed the lot... your maroon ones there look to be doing alright...
fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8)
Original Author
8 years ago
I confess, I couldn't quite bring myself to post pictures of the tomatoes and the overgrown raspberries, and nobody wants to see the worst of the chewed lilies, because lily beetle grub infestation is SO disgusting. I'm going to make it a priority to pick them off this evening.
fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8)
Original Author
8 years ago
H'mmm. Yellow Mutabilis, yay or nay? I love my small own root Mutabilis , although I gather it's yellow sport is less vigorous. Is it as healthy?
User
8 years ago
I am insanely jealous of people with healthy Mutabilis - mine is a disgrace - it looks wonderful for 2 weeks in spring when the new growth is so hopeful, but the first buds have not even opened before blackspot and mildew render it a wasteland...while supposedly fussy and demanding Graham Thomas glows with health and vigour in the very same bed. I have even fussed and fed it!

In truth, yellow mutabils has nothing to get me excited - even if mine were healthy, there are so many gorgeous Asian yellows - hugonis, Cantabridgiensis, Golden Chersonese, primula...and if I really required repeating, then Golden Wings, Dairy Maid or even Mrs Oakley Fisher are just the ticket
ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
8 years ago
fduk, you had us prepared for horrors but your garden looks fine to me with the possible exception of the black-spotted rose. I think when gardens are green they seem thriving to me no matter what else is going on, and you still have blooming things aplenty.
User
8 years ago
I am loving that clematis - so often, clems are planted in conjunction with other things, especially roses...and all well and good but the essential grace and delicacy of the singular clematis growth habits are so often missed...while yours is a lovely compliment to the arch. I have a plena purpurea elegans growing with Zepherine Drouhin - now a secateur casualty, and a completely unforeseen advantage is the black timber structure supporting the clematis on its own - such a lovely sight and never before appreciated as it was huddled amongst the (mildewed) rose canes looking a bit lost and forlorn. The negative spaces between blooms and leaves have a lightness which has absolutely enhanced this previously rather dull clematis (although I love to roll the entire name off my tongue - viticella purpurea plena elegans.

The colour and shape of your clematis is a wonderful complement to that baroque ironwork.