There are those at the KT who know a lot more about car shopping than I, but I think dealers expect to have to come down on the price.

The same is true of antique dealers, for instance, which I'm more familiar with. A simple "What's your best price on this?" or "Will you take $_____?" often gets the price down to a more acceptable figure without a lot of haggling.

I for one will "haggle" over buying a car....or a house. A large purchase can save you a large amount of money! Good for YOU! Enjoy your new to you car purchase!

I've never "bartered" for a car but I certainly have "bargained" or "negotiated" on the price.

Used cars is one purchase you should heavily negotiate a price. There is a HUGE mark up on used cars when purchased at a dealer. My brother sold used cars for decades.

I once traded six dozen eggs for a large aquarium. That was many years ago. I have never bought a car so no haggling for me there but my husband sure does.

Sue

I did walk away but they called me at home to take my final price. The car is actually for my husband but I did the grunt work of finding and buying. I told them I was walking and if my husband was interested in the final deal he can take over because I was out. I don't think they would ever let themselves lose money like they claim they are because why would they make a deal where there is nothing in it for them? I rarely buy big ticket items as we usually use our things until they are kaput or becoming an expense by breaking down too often. I still feel uncomfortable with the transaction but I'm at a point in my life where I think "Why should just give and not ask for anything?" LOL, it took awhile for me to get there.

Oh yeah." Let me discuss it with my Manager" - well, I actually had the manager come and explain how things worked because I apparently didn't "get it". My husband is shopping for the next car. I'm out.

I'm confused what did you barter for the car?

I just did a barter yesterday, I had a stone Mason working on my fence he spotted something in my yard he could use he asked me if I would be willing to barter some of his price for the item. It was something I no longer needed so I agree he could have it and he knocked down his price for the job. Excellent deal for both! I am open to a good barter, we used to do most of our business on the farm by bartering.

Two topics - bargaining for a price, vs bartering one thing in trade for another without using money.

There's no need to haggle prices when buying a car. Services like Costco and True Car referrals are easy to use and insure you're getting a no-nonsense price. For private party transactions, information from Kelly Blue Book provides area-specific price references. Buyers and sellers often refer to it for guidance in negotiations (in my experience). Even when doing a trade in on a new car, the dealer will use KBB as a guide.

Bartering? It's a way some workers and small business people often use to avoid paying tax on income since no money hits their bank account. It's like working for cash. I stay away from it and people who use it.

Oh, sorry, I gave them my second born. Just kidding. I meant bargaining since I used the word wrong. I probably would enjoy bartering then.

snidely, you've commented on this before. I see it different. If my brother has a car he's bought and already paid for, and paid taxes on, and I have a truck that I bought and paid for, and paid taxes on, why couldn't we trade without paying an additional tax? Seriously. It's not tax free that way. I don't actually barter, but I don't think it's avoiding taxes either. I think, if it was done as you're suggesting, that'd be double dipping by the government.

I meant bargaining too. Forgot that the topic title was Bartering. I've never traded goods for services (or vice versa), but it has a long and honorable history.

rob, I think you're mixing things up a bit. Bartering - small business people barter to avoid income tax. A mechanic fixes a painter's truck and the painter does a paint job for them in return. Or an appliance store gives a fridge to a plumber in return for plumbing work. A landscaper does a yard layout and planting in return for a new driveway at home. Etc. While the people would have income to report if paid by CC or check, this work gets done and compensated with no paper trail and so no income to report. Barter income is taxable same as cash, but people feel they can get away with not reporting it.

Trading cars or other property between family members is an entirely different animal. There's no income tax consequence (cars for daily use, not as collectables, are always sold for a loss) and in many states transfers among family members can be done free of sales tax. So, there's no tax consequence at all of what you describe doing yourself. You could do it as a trade, you could exchange cash or check, same result, no tax consequence.

Edit to add

alisande, a long and honorable history of bartering? Say more about this please. I was taught in my econ classes that the concept of "money" was invented to avoid the need for bartering and to make earned value more portable and more easily exchanged. If you do concrete work for a painter, all he can offer in return is painting. If he pays you in money, you can use it to buy anything.

but you do have to pay for change of title, right?

You owe taxes on barter whether money changes hands or not. Just because there's no formal record doesn't mean the law doesn't say you owe it. It's like use tax. Most people don't file for it, and it's not heavily enforced on consumers, but it exists. Barter goes by the fair market value. If you barter your services or something you've made or remade, you probably owe income tax. Also if you do a lopsided deal, like Marilyn Sue's eggs for aquarium sounds like. You also may owe sales/use tax depending on your local laws.

Re bargaining for a car, I too find it annoying, but not nearly the worst part of car shopping. If you go in informed and know what the car should cost, and stick to it knowing that if it's a regular household car there are many more like it available, you'll get your price, even if you have to walk away at first, like Cookie8. My menfolk are good negotiators in business, but not in "shopping". They get bored or something and pay too much and for something that isn't quite right. I learned to bargain in the souk.

What I hate is when they LIE. The car salesmen almost all lie. The biggest whopper was from the guy who said that the company had its own heard of cattle to provide the leather seats. the next biggest lie is the vinyl that they're allowed to call "leather" because some cowhide is used in the backing. Then, when you get in contact to find out if it's worth an hour's drive to see the car you want and they assure you that they have it, they don't! When you tell them you're not going to buy anything else until you see that car you want to see, they still lie because they think you'll just buy what they have to sell you. They lie and lie and lie. They lie about what's available and what isn't and what they can do about it. They just want quick sales.

When I finally found a dealership that not only had what they said they had, they brought the vehicles around to the apron, rather than dragging me through the back acres of hell. They have a good service department, too, who make and keep appointments, check everything, not just what you came in for (on their dime), and charge reasonably. Sometimes you find a really good, well run business and it's worth going out of your way to stick with them.

Cookie8, I hear your frustration, but congratulations on making a good deal!

Services I can see being taxed, thanks snidely. That helps.

my husband loves to barter or as I call haggle with them over the price of the car. Me I just want to pay what they are asking and be done with it. I know that I would get a better deal if I barter with them. We just bought my brother in laws leased car for 3000. It seemed like a good deal to me. No bartering with that. Simple over and done with it. Drives like a dream. Nice on the inside he took very good care of it.

I love to barter - I think more people should give it a try.

When I was going to college I couldn't aford the guy who had been cutting my hair for years. I talked to him about it, and what could I do in trade, so I could continue having him cut my hair. I was going to college in a town where apples were processed. We agreed that I would bring him a jug of apple cider, and then wash the mirrors in his salon. Bartering is trading. My neighbor is disabled and can't walk to the mailbox. I get her mail and in return she takes in packages for me. It's like swapping services.

People who don't understand bartering are against it. I do it as often as I can. It isn't always to help me but often to help someone else. Money is money and if you don't have any, bartering is the next best thing. Of course those who don't have to worry about their next dime wouldn't think about the person who doesn't have an extra dime.

THE authority for every argument our resident expert quotes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barter

I moved to a very small rural community quite a few years ago and got into bartering with the locals....some third generation farmers and lots of "hippie" types. I was a hairdresser and traded haircuts (I'd go to their homes) for fresh eggs and milk, beef, produce and fruit, honey, homemade soap, credit at a small specialty store and probably some things I don't even remember. I really loved it...not because of tax avoidance at all, but it was just such a good feeling to give/do something I could and get things back I needed - better than I could have bought in a store.

Bartering is when one agent trades a good or service that they have for some thing or service that another can provide, where no money (or only a small amount) changes hands.

Bargaining is when one wants to buy some thing or service and figures that the asking price is too high, so offers a lower price ... or walks away (which may be an outright refusal ... or merely a bargaining tactic).

The two are not the same.

ole joyful

When we recently bought our used car, it was a no-brainer what kind we wanted and where we wanted to get it. There was one car at a used car lot.....it looked pretty, but a friend of mine looked at it in person and it's been re-painted, and a myriad of other things and he walked away fast. The price wasn't much different than what we paid for ours.

I felt very comfortable buying our car, as I've had my car serviced there for over a decade.

Bartering, a friend of mine wanted some homemade laundry detergent. I filled 3 jugs for her and in exchange she gave me 2 jars of horseradish and 2 dozen eggs.

What your comment is saying is that if your goods and services aren't valued by others, the only alternative is to try to give them away and hope to get something in return. The solution to this situation is not bartering, but rather to improve your skills to produce or provide things of higher value that people are willing to pay for.

I'm a CPA with a degree in economics from a top rated school. Especially not with economics or financial matters but with other things too, I don't use Google searches to pretend to be knowledgeable.

Try it.

I'm sure there are people and businesses that barter to avoid some taxes; however that vast majority of small businesses and self employed service providers are cash poor, but asset/skill rich. When you need a new roof and the roofer needs a new hot water heater, but neither of you can outlay the straight cash for the project, you trade with the currency you have- your skill, time, and materials.

The small business owners I know and have encountered who are good at what they do and can capably run successful operations are anything but cash poor.

Well, there are many rural and/or economically depressed areas where good and talented business people do not have access to enough customers who can pay for their services. They may love the idea of saving their cash and trading for the services of other trades people. And some people, like me, just love the idea of getting off the grid and getting goods or services instead of money for my talents and efforts. It was never how I supported myself, but just a way to enjoy a little extra bonus to and from my friends and neighbors

There was a show on one of those reality cable channels about a couple of guys who bartered for a living. They'd take something pretty small and keep trading up until they hit a goal. Start with, say, a lawnmower, and end with a 25' boat. Things like that. It was entertaining. :) Most people who barter, when you compare going rates for what they trade, are up one day and down another so it all balances out. What doesn't come out of it is the cash to pay the taxes. :)

People like to have a standardized pricing scheme. Say you could sell the earrings you make online for $18 plus $2 for shipping. You trade a pair for a pair of socks that are worth $15 and another pair for a coin purse that's worth $25, but you need six dozen eggs for quiches for a party, and trade a pair of earrings for them. The earrings are worth double what the eggs are worth, so even though you made out with nearly half again as much for the coin purse, and didn't lose much on the socks, you're kind of ticked that you have to let your earrings go for half their value, but you need the eggs, and you don't need/can't use a whole gross, if the farmer even has that many to trade you. So people set up barter clubs. They list their items, usually by a number of points, rather than a dollar figure, to stymie the tax man. If a dozen farm fresh eggs are 1 point, then the hand knit socks are 9 points, the earrings are 11 points, and the decorated coin purse is 15.5 points. You barter through the club so when you trade a pair of earrings you get a pair of socks and two points. When you trade for a coin purse, you give a pair of earrings and 4.5 points.

In other words, you have to have something to trade to join the club, but in reality the club is just a service that has invented money.