Weedy, if you see this... I keep running into you here and there, we follow many of the same threads. You give really good advice and are a natural at this design thing. I went into Lowe's this weekend and REALLY looked. I had not really shopped there for 'a few of my favorite things' in quite some time and I was absolutely amazed at the Tile Department selection. I found several things that I really may be able to use so thanks for the steer in the right direction. Still no heated mats, tho. :) If you get a spare moment, I would like to ask one more favor. You mentioned earlier in this thread (I think it was this thread) that your shower clip hardware was designed for a 135 degree angle. Do you know what other angles other than 90 and 135 are available or from whom? (Probably will depend on each person's Glass Guy's resources). If you have a moment could you photograph a close-up of your clip hardware, so I can show my guy (or whomever) that it exists? I would also like to see how the 3/8" glass is mitered for that 135 degree hardware. I know that it is also held together by the header channel at the top. This favor, only if you get a chance. :) Thanks so much, Anne

breezygirl, yes we have a frameless glass shower enclosure... our shower is set up like this: it is set up so the 60" length is where the door is... so, facing the shower, to the left is a 36" length with a shower head on a full wall, straight ahead is a 60" length and bench behind it with full wall, niche and handheld shower on bar, then to the right is a knee wall with niche and a glass panel above it and in front is all glass--glass panel and door. the door is hinged onto the left wall and opens outward. the pan is made so wall had to be on 3 sides(36", 60", 36") - single threshold--- i think they might make some double threshold pans, but the knee wall is fine and i think it being single threshold makes it more 'watertight' by have the 'lip' or whatever it is called on 3 sides... to be perfectly honest, i have never posted pictures before...one of these days i will figure it out!

If I correctly recall your saga, you had a supposedly well built mud bed with supposedly well installed marble tile over it. Then you brought in a friend to seal it. After sealing is when you had the issues. If I recall, when the drain was later pulled, there was evidence that the sealer had percolated down into the mud bed. In a properly working shower, tiling over existing tile can be done. My understanding is your shower is broken. My understanding is that what forensic work has been done to your shower has not resulted in a cause of failure. It has only resulted in people pointing fingers at the other guy. The sealer guy points at the tiler. The tile guy points at the sealer guy. The GC shrugs his shoulder and points at you because you brought in the sealer guy on your own. You point at the GC and ask when will my shower be fixed? If no one can define the problem, how can they come up with a solution? They can't, so they all wink at each other and say "let's cover it up!" The only way to properly install new tile over bad tile that is on a bad mud bed is to completely isolate the new work from the old. There are three important points of contact: That means a NEW membrane has to be installed on top of your old work to prevent water from percolating down into the old work. That means that around the floor perimeter, the new membrane has to be tied into the wall's drainage plane or the wall's membrane that was installed behind the current wall tile. That means that the new drain has to be properly detailed into the old. So, what can you do? You can simply do what has been recommended. Simply cover over what you have. Bury it. Fingers crossed. Hope for the best. It's the easiest. You might have no further bad symptoms. Or the pan might start showing problems, 6, 12, or 24 months down the road. Or you can cover it up keeping the three points of contact in mind. Do understand that this route would require a conscientious and competent mechanic. Or go with the choice that over the long run will likely involve the least amount of labor, be the least expensive solution, and have the greatest chance of success: Have a competent mechanic remove the failed bed and install new. I wrote too much. (sigh) Good luck!

Hi tmnca! One thing to think about with the Kohler shower pans is whether you may ever be using a shower stool with legs. If you were to get a longer shower bench, the Salient may cause problems because the oval really does have quite a bit of "curb" to it, as shown in Badgergal's photo of her son's shower. With a small shower stool set in the center of the shower, it is fine. If you ever need a longer shower stool, the Bellweather gives you a surface not impeded with the raised oval. I does, however, have a slant to the overall shower floor, so that must be taken into account. I have seen the Bellweather in person. It is a non-slip surface. It almost felt like a surface that would make me trip - catching my foot if I did not pick it up and step. Like if I dragged the foot, it would catch and I would trip and fall. It was a funny feeling to the bottom, and I wondered how it would feel when wet. It was NOT going to feel slippery, though! As for tile in a shower floor, the other reason to have small tiles (besides the grout lines giving traction), is that the small tiles allow the tile layer to better cope with the slant toward the drain. Larger tiles only allow you to slant in one direction. The smaller the tile, the better it is for following contours on a floor that is flowing to a drain from all directions.