Weedy, if you see this... I keep running into you here and there, we follow many of the same threads. You give really good advice and are a natural at this design thing. I went into Lowe's this weekend and REALLY looked. I had not really shopped there for 'a few of my favorite things' in quite some time and I was absolutely amazed at the Tile Department selection. I found several things that I really may be able to use so thanks for the steer in the right direction. Still no heated mats, tho. :) If you get a spare moment, I would like to ask one more favor. You mentioned earlier in this thread (I think it was this thread) that your shower clip hardware was designed for a 135 degree angle. Do you know what other angles other than 90 and 135 are available or from whom? (Probably will depend on each person's Glass Guy's resources). If you have a moment could you photograph a close-up of your clip hardware, so I can show my guy (or whomever) that it exists? I would also like to see how the 3/8" glass is mitered for that 135 degree hardware. I know that it is also held together by the header channel at the top. This favor, only if you get a chance. :) Thanks so much, Anne

"Also, I haven't come by the term "single source" what does that mean? " It just means that you can buy all your materials from the same place, from a "single source". A Laticrete distributor, for example. Or the same online source. "I haven't priced the cost of materials either. " The easiest way to DIY materials is to used the bagged Quikrete products. Most pans take around 2-3 bags each of Topping Mix and regular sand. The 60-80 lb bags are around $5-$8 each. Expanded metal lathe, maybe $10. The flanged drains (Laticrete and Kerdi) are indeed expensive at around $75-$100, but do realize that they save you materials and labor. You can use an inexpensive 2-part clamping drain ($5), but you'll have to read up, or research Youtube videos regarding "the divot method" of shower construction. For DIY I do think a flanged drain is much easier than the divot/clamping drain method. You'll probably have to buy a few tidbits, but you're looking at around $175-$200 max. That's an across-the-internet guesstimate. "So, I'm trying to compare cost, quality and convenience. If it's really only a small difference in cost, wouldn't the presloped laticrete with built in drain pan be easier?" Ding-ding-ding. I believe we have a winner! You can get a Laticrete pan that includes the drain, as well as a few other tidbits, for around $350. Unlike the Kerdi Tray, the Laticrete drain is already set in the pan. It even includes the curb. Personally, I think that's a pretty good deal. It is more expensive than DIYing your own mud pan, but you won't have to lug a half-dozen 80-lb bags of Quikrete, you won't have to mix your own deck mud, you won't have to calculate, layout, and then follow you drain and wall perimeter mud elevations to get the deck mud installed to the proper thickness, you won't have to screed it to the proper slope, rip your shoulder out packing the mud in place, etc, etc. Then you still have to build your own curb. The Laticrete kit includes the Laticrete curb. So the kit saves you not just a couple of days of labor, it saves you a lot of head-scratching and tinkering, too. And a helluva lot of worry wondering "am I doing it right?". It'll be pretty easy to install and more importantly, It will be right. Good luck with your project. FWIW, while there may be others too, Bill and I are both veterans, and we as well as others on this forum are more than happy to help.

breezygirl, yes we have a frameless glass shower enclosure... our shower is set up like this: it is set up so the 60" length is where the door is... so, facing the shower, to the left is a 36" length with a shower head on a full wall, straight ahead is a 60" length and bench behind it with full wall, niche and handheld shower on bar, then to the right is a knee wall with niche and a glass panel above it and in front is all glass--glass panel and door. the door is hinged onto the left wall and opens outward. the pan is made so wall had to be on 3 sides(36", 60", 36") - single threshold--- i think they might make some double threshold pans, but the knee wall is fine and i think it being single threshold makes it more 'watertight' by have the 'lip' or whatever it is called on 3 sides... to be perfectly honest, i have never posted pictures before...one of these days i will figure it out!

If I correctly recall your saga, you had a supposedly well built mud bed with supposedly well installed marble tile over it. Then you brought in a friend to seal it. After sealing is when you had the issues. If I recall, when the drain was later pulled, there was evidence that the sealer had percolated down into the mud bed. In a properly working shower, tiling over existing tile can be done. My understanding is your shower is broken. My understanding is that what forensic work has been done to your shower has not resulted in a cause of failure. It has only resulted in people pointing fingers at the other guy. The sealer guy points at the tiler. The tile guy points at the sealer guy. The GC shrugs his shoulder and points at you because you brought in the sealer guy on your own. You point at the GC and ask when will my shower be fixed? If no one can define the problem, how can they come up with a solution? They can't, so they all wink at each other and say "let's cover it up!" The only way to properly install new tile over bad tile that is on a bad mud bed is to completely isolate the new work from the old. There are three important points of contact: That means a NEW membrane has to be installed on top of your old work to prevent water from percolating down into the old work. That means that around the floor perimeter, the new membrane has to be tied into the wall's drainage plane or the wall's membrane that was installed behind the current wall tile. That means that the new drain has to be properly detailed into the old. So, what can you do? You can simply do what has been recommended. Simply cover over what you have. Bury it. Fingers crossed. Hope for the best. It's the easiest. You might have no further bad symptoms. Or the pan might start showing problems, 6, 12, or 24 months down the road. Or you can cover it up keeping the three points of contact in mind. Do understand that this route would require a conscientious and competent mechanic. Or go with the choice that over the long run will likely involve the least amount of labor, be the least expensive solution, and have the greatest chance of success: Have a competent mechanic remove the failed bed and install new. I wrote too much. (sigh) Good luck!