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Best layout for smallest useable kitchen?

Our designer has given us a one wall kitchen design in a small budget in law apartment. First draft and looking to make changes. We need to add a dishwasher, there' s not enough counter space and all appliances are 24". Not sure he has allotted enough space for an 18cu ft refrigerator. Making changes will not allow the one wall layout.

I also want to buy as high a quality appliances as I can on a budget. 24" appliance manufacturers are unfamiliar to me.

Anyone have any suggestions of how to get the most out of the smallest space?

Comments (268)

  • sheloveslayouts
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Is the wide stairwell just for furniture moving? This space is not going to allow for large pieces of furniture or probably even most average furniture. I would reconsider the wide stairs, Especially if someone might need extra balance by touching the wall while holding the handrail. I think someone mentioned before about a lift chair, but I'm doubting this space is going to serve a person very well who cannot climb one flight.

    I lived in many apartments before becoming a home owner and my smallest spaces were the cutest studios with three separate rooms; living (with murphy bed), separate kitchen and bathroom. If you need storage, storage typically requires walls and so walls negate an open concept.

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but an 88x42 inch sofa is probably not going to play nice in an apartment this size. This is why apartment dwellers buy their sofas flat packed at ikea. In this space I suspect if you're going to have any kind of conversational furniture arrangment, you'll probably need a slim loveseat and a slim side chair.

    I'm not sure how far the stairs can move toward the street, but I tried moving them over even more to increase your living room space.

    Also, you'd be amazed at how many clothes and accessories you can fit in an organized pax closet from Ikea. They would be workhorses on either side of the bed like this:

  • Jillius
    8 years ago

    Prairie, there are a number of washer/dryers that are smaller than standard for small apartments like this. They are designed to fit in a roughly 24" x 24" footprint because many are put under the counter in the kitchen (where standard cabinet depth is 24") Here is just one example that can be stacked:

    http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/MAY7500FL.html?brand_store=1

    But there are many more.


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  • Ziemia
    8 years ago

    We've used this stacked system for 30 years in one of our rental apartments. It is reasonably durable, and it works fine (according to the current tenant who is a bit fussy - my daughter so I know).

  • Ziemia
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I appreciated, too, Jillius's notes summary. The street's location struck me. I would definitely NOT place the bed on the wall facing the street. The front wall (per my experience) gets more of the noise disruption that do the side walls. And if noise is a concern, sure, put no windows on that wall. Some folks suffer more sleep disturbances the older they get.

    On the sofa --- I would NOT make a layout decision based on a particular sofa, all be it much loved. Many sectionals are very durable and comfortable. Ikea stuff is often laughed at by my friends (women in and around Boston, at the age of just retiring). But Ikea things work out great, though some of their upholstery fabric has been not so great. Easy to fix as it usually comes in it's own bag so it's easy to pattern / remake. The prices are great and the sizing is perfect for a studio type apartment.

  • Jillius
    8 years ago

    You asked to compare dimensions. I don't have them on hand (I'd have to count the squares in what I drew), but that really isn't the best way to determine if better use is made of the space. I realize that seems easy -- compare numbers, whichever is bigger is better. But it doesn't actually have a lot of bearing on what will feel bigger and more comfortable to use.

    Things that make a room feel bigger that have no bearing on those numbers:

    • long sight lines

    • having everything fit

    • proportional furniture choices

    • high ceilings

    • paring down your stuff (not having more than fits easily)

    • the color you paint your walls

    • what is at eye level (bulky or dark items at eye level make a room feel smaller -- that's why so many tuxedo kitchens do white on top)

    • proportions of furniture to rooms and rooms to each other and how roomy walkways are

    • more natural light

    • windows that extend your sight lines

    • having a lot of separate zones

    • things that aren't an awkward shape

    For instance, a 3' x 7' walkway should feel smaller than a 4' x 7' walkway, right? But if the 3 x7 has windows on one side or an open stair case on one side and the 4' x 7' has just solid walls on both sides, the latter is going to be bigger and feel a lot smaller.

    Or a 3' x 3' pantry is technically bigger than a 1' x 3' pantry, but the latter is WAY better and easier to use because it's not this black hole where things get lost in the back.

    Or a 4' x 50' kitchen is technically 200 sq. ft. of kitchen, but it's totally useless and a crazy shape. We'd all prefer a 10' x 10' (100 sq. ft.) kitchen to that.

    Or more relevant to you and this problem, deepening your bedroom closet to 30" or 36" deep does not mean you have better or more usable storage than in a 24" deep PAX wardrobe. You can't hang more with only 6" or 12" added depth. It just means you have some empty space behind and in front of the hanging items.

  • funkycamper
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Good points, Jillius. I agree with all of that.

    In my own recent experience, my kitchen feels so much bigger with the wall down between it and the dining room. However, we have not increased the footprint of the kitchen itself because the back of the peninsula is where the old wall was. We could have done this identical cabinet configuration without removing the wall at all. But then I'd be staring at that dang wall instead of the open space and also enjoying the light and view in the formerly separate, dining room. My kitchen had two big windows before the wall removal so it wasn't totally closed in but the way the room feels is so much more spacious without that wall.

    Our former home only had one outside window in the living room, facing north. Although it was a large window, it didn't let in much light. Our current home's living room has a long stretch of windows on two sides, one side facing south, the other north. Everybody who comes to the house raves about how big our living room is. Nobody ever said that about the living room in the previous home even though that living room was about about 60 square feet larger and also opened directly into the dining room with just some bookshelves on each side separating the two rooms making it a much larger space. I'm guessing it must be those big windows on each side that extend the sight lines in our current home. Nothing else makes sense.

    I'm still confused about the laundry folding issue. I usually fold and hang ASAP out of the dryer, standing at the dryer. However, true story, everybody else things it takes f-o-r-e-v-e-r to fold a load of clothes instead of about 4-5 minutes. So if somebody else puts a load of clothes in the dryer before I've unloaded, they throw it on my bed. I used to have severe back problems and couldn't bend over at all. Had to keep back straight and stoop. So, when this happened, I simply sat on the bed to fold. No problem.

    Regarding the bedroom on the street side: How much traffic is on that street? How late at night is there much traffic? I ask because our previous home was about 50 feet from a main thoroughfare in town. OK, this is a small town so our traffic levels are lower than in a busy suburban or metro area but, still, fairly busy. That route is also the street tourists take going through town to get to our local beaches. So, in the summer, when we typically had bedroom windows open, traffic would often go late at night and start early. Especially when there are clam tides....then we actually have traffic jams here!

    My point? When we first moved there, we wondered if we had made a mistake due to the noise. A few months later, we realized we didn't even notice it. The traffic noise actually lulled us to sleep. We currently live in a very quiet neighborhood at the end of a dead end street. The first week or two we lived here, we had a horrible time sleeping. It was too quiet! We heard ever house noise and other bump in the night from inside and outside and those noises would both keep us from falling asleep and wake us up in the middle of the night. None of those sounds were loud, just loud in comparison to that absolutely quiet stillness. It was really pretty funny but then we got used to it.

    I kinda think you're sometimes focusing on problems that aren't really problems, Prairie. No offense intended.

    ETA: Oops, forgot! I hate windows so high you can't see out of them unless they're a design element like clerestory windows. Even if that side doesn't have an attractive view, I would much rather see an attractive view than no view. Doesn't that side face the road? What if a car pulls up late at night and they want to see who is there? What if there is a crashing noise and they want to check to see if there is a wreck? What if it sounds like someone is creeping around outside on that side and they want to check that? There are many reasons for windows besides the view and light. If the view was truly horrendously ugly, I would probably hang a lace curtain or other window treatment that would distract from the ugliness of the view while giving me the ability to look out that window when I want.

  • Jillius
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Here is another riff on the same what-could-we-gain-if-we-compromised-the-size-of-the-bedroom-and-on-having-hallways concept. This one is going to feel much smaller than my previous suggestion due to have much shorter sight lines and smaller walkways everywhere. It's also back to an L-kitchen, which you didn't want.

    However, it doesn't split the apartment length-wise, which you didn't like about the one previously. There is also a wall for a TV across from the bed, which you didn't like the lack of about the previous one.

    In this one, the bedroom is appropriately sized for a queen or full bed. A king can fit (shown below), but to be able to walk by, the bed needs to be shoved against the wall. However, there is enough space that if you were changing the sheets, you could pull the bed away from the wall and into the walkway and have an easier time changing the sheets than with the nook concept.

    It is also possible in this layout to have one regular nightstand and one of these on the other side of the bed:

    For your desired storage:

    hall closet -- downstairs

    bedroom closet -- similar size, but deeper if you can't wrap your head around PAX

    drawers -- in the closet (if you do PAX), under the bed, or in the nightstand

    linens -- linen stored with clothes

    broom closet -- stored in storage wall in living room

    washer/dryer -- in kitchen

    pantry -- stored kitchen cabinets or in storage wall in living room

    Edit: Ha, benje! I never really looked at your suggestion. I just saw that you were still missing facts about the stairs and such and responded to that part of what you were saying. But your suggestion VERY similar to this one. Great minds!

    Edit 2: Here that same layout with a queen bed:


  • Jillius
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Thank you, Sena!!! Your 3D images weren't showing in this thread for me until a second ago. Odd. I love how you do the furniture and everything. Your attention to detail is awesome.

    I'd already had this thought before you posted, and your post is confirming it. What if the kitchen were mirrored like this:

    I didn't do that in the first place because I didn't want the fridge door and dishwasher door blocking the walkway, but I do think the mirror image might look better from the living room.

    Also, if a queen bed is fine with the future residents, then I totally agree with your edit with the bed size and a couple little nightstands. Seems much more comfortable. I'd put the dresser on the other side, though, to keep the walkway straight into the bathroom:

    I love how similar this view (below) is to the inspiration photo (below that) -- it's just what I was picturing!

  • Jillius
    8 years ago

    A couple of the views Sena posted from the two different floor plans were from the same angle (more or less). Here are those side-by-side. You can see the difference longer sight lines makes.


  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    8 years ago

    This thread is getting difficult to load on my computer, but I've found it so interesting, I keep checking in to see the progress.

    My question is--how old are those of you who are posting the beds in the nook, or in the tiny room with little space to walk around the bed? I'm in my late fifties, and I would not consider that bed comfortable to get into, or out of. Yeah, maybe if I was still in my 20s--30s it would seem charming, and if I had to stay there as a guest for a night or two on my own, I'd be able to stand it, but not night after night, and especially not if there are two people trying to get into, or out of, the bed. Most folks of a certain age, even healthy, mobile ones, need to be able to put their feet on the ground, and lever themselves up. Sorry, but if this space is for an older couple, I don't see that bed working.

  • Ziemia
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    mamma goose - I'm 60-something and just a bit curvy :: the bed tucked tightly into a nook would not be what I'd like at all. I'd go to a murphy bed or a high quality sleep sofa for sure. The bed in a nook with a bit of space at the side could be fine ---- the bedroom - for me - is all about the bed---- BUT then I'm one that would max the size of the kitchen / living room as much as possible. (Though that means a galley kitchen with all the big things on one wall.)

  • rebunky
    8 years ago

    I cannot believe all the ingenious new layouts posted! Way to think outside the box everyone! Glad to see Benjisbride join in too. You guys all rock at this! Sena, that's so cool how you make the designs come to life in those 3d images.

    When I peeked in earlier and saw this thread was bursting with fresh new ideas, I could not resist joining in. Ok, so here's my latest stab at it. :-)

    Don't mind my little 10's on the stairs, I was trying to understand if the area we are stealing above the first few steps is correct. I think 10" although small is okay for the step and hopefully fits okay. If for some reason you end up needing a few more inches of head room, Mr R said there is a way you could get a few more inches, but I won't even try and explain it! Ha!

    You do enter the bathroom through the bedroom. (Gasp!) I think Praire, you said you were fine with that?

    The bedroom and bathroom door are now 36". I made the bathroom have a decent size (36") vanity and an 18" linen pantry also. The shower is 5x8 but has an added little bench at 18" deep x about 30" wide. I was not sure what to do with that extra space behind the shower bench wall, so figured it could be an open little shelf behind the couch for books or display or whatever. Maybe a kitty cat perch? :-)

    The 3' deep x 6' long bedroom closet can hold clothes, but figured since it is that deep the vacuum and broom can get tucked in there behind the clothes. It's deep enough for the future w/d and they could even be a full size stack if you want.

    I put two skinny windows flanking the bed. But if you prefer just the celestial higher windows that's fine too. I just realized, I think I got the bed size wrong again, grrr. I think it's wider. Oh well, you'd still have room I believe.

    The path in front of the bed is pretty tight at 3'. We could bump the kitchen in I guess if need to? The TV across from bed is a wall mount and maybe you could recess it in the wall. (Benjisbride, is it you that did that?)

    There is space for a large dresser on that north side under the bigger window. I put another smaller closet (24" deep x 3' wide) on that side also. I think the compromise here is that the closets need have those organizer systems to really untilize the hanging space.

    I wasn't sure what you would prefer in that space between the bedroom door and stairs under the big window. I will leave it up to you. It could be a breakfast bar with stools which could also serve as a laundry folding counter looking out a window. It could be an extra prep counter with more drawers all the way underneath or just on the two sides so that one chair can tuck in the middle? Not sure if a bistro table set would fit or not. Or you could just leave it open....up to you.

    Kitchen has a 30" fridge, 18" DW, 30" sink, 30" stove, two super Susan's and a 24" drawer under pennisula. I figured most prep would be on the pennisula looking out the best view and at TV. A plate rack above the sink would be cute.

    I tried to keep the whole sight line thing going with windows on the west and north sides with an open staircase. Only real thing blocking the window view (and on the best side too!) is the dang TV in living room. However, I could not for the life of me figure any other way to get it off the staircase wall. I didn't like that either.

    I added a sectional in to see if it worked. I think it would, if you could find a narrow space saving size one. I think you should definitely sell the deeper couch as it really is making thing difficult and not allowing much for seating. I saw a sectional at Costco and it was only 37" deep on the seats. I think it would really make the space flow so much better.



  • yeonassky
    8 years ago

    I get the lack of a strong back issues. My nephew has a bad back. If that's the case I'd get help making the bed from my partner, or better yet get younger family members to do it, :?) if I had any back problems. At just a couple of years until I'm 60 I realize how lucky I am to still be able do this myself. And as well I'd better be able to! It's part of my business. I use the tighten abs and bend at the knees rule for all strenuous activities. There are hospital type beds that allow you to raise and lower the head and foot of the bed for seniors. Not sure if your family needs that. If they're able to climb the stairs they must be somewhat spry. :) But that type of bed might be great to change as it can come to you . :)

    You get better cross breeze with windows at the same height. Plus there is view obscuring glass for windows. But I bet they won't notice the view much after a while, as noted above.

    I use an ironing board at many clients' places where there is no higher flat surface. Then I fold clothes and when done fold and put away ironing board. It's my livelihood so I protect my back as much as possible.Plus I hate pain. :)

    Mama goose there used to be a feature where you could choose not to load the pictures. Then once loaded more quickly, ctrl and click to see the ones you want to see. Maybe someone else knows how to help you do that

  • sheloveslayouts
    8 years ago

    Off Topic:

    For my fellow floor plan lovers... did you play with these little puzzles as a kid? My grandma had several of these and I loved them. When I work with a challenging floor plan I think of these. And my sweet Grandma Hulda.

    Prairie: Your project is a ladybug. It will come together!

  • rebunky
    8 years ago

    BB yes! My grandma had a closet filled with toys and games for us grandkids. I always went for the etch-a-sketch first. I'd spend hours drawing on that thing! My other favorite was Lincoln Logs. Must be why I still love log cabins. Brings back memory's. :-)

    Prairemoon, I cannot wait to see how this puzzle of yours ends up fitting together! Oh and while I'm straying off topic, just thought I'd mention that my windows finally arrived for our cabin and today I helped DH install. It is looking like a little house now!

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago


    Wow, I don’t know where to start…lol! Sena, it makes such a difference to be able to get an actual 3D view of whatever plan you’re trying to consider, especially for those of us who have a hard time translating lines on paper to the actual space. You are really good with that program you have. I can’t even imagine how long it took you to master using it. I am sure if I had it for a year, I couldn’t produce such great renderings. Interesting that it allowed you to add travertine marble to the wall….lol. And boy do I wish I had those great views out our windows!


    It’s going to take me awhile to digest all these ideas. I’m glad it’s Friday, I hope I will have a chance to go over all these 3D renderings with my family this weekend. My DH is having a tough week at work and has been coming home late exhausted, so Saturday will be the first chance I’ll have to share these with him. One of our kids is moving on Sunday and we’re going to be busy all weekend helping. But I’ll be able to spend some time today, looking them all over and thinking it through.


    Great idea to take a look at the garage, Sena. I wanted to mention that DH wants to store our van in the new garage. The old garage has been too small to fit the van, and he’s really looking forward to being able to use it for that now. I looked up the dimensions online.


    79 inches wide

    202.9 inches long

    70 inches high


    That’s pretty big.


    I notice Mama Goose mentioned having trouble loading the thread on her computer. Should we consider starting a new thread?


    BenjesBride and Rebunky - yes, definitely remember playing with that little puzzle as a kid. They were very popular and great for long car rides. Etch-a-Sketch for sure and Lincoln Logs was one of my favorites. :-)


    BenjesBride - isn’t it funny how those little memories always have a connection to someone special from our childhood..! Yes, it will all come together…we’re getting there.


    Rebunky - how exciting that your windows are in! You both are so lucky to be able to do all this work yourself! I really wish that was something I had the opportunity to learn to do. I’m going to have to go check out your thread again.


    I’ll be back later today after I’ve had a chance to catch up with the thread.



  • sheloveslayouts
    8 years ago

    The more I think about Jillius' plan with the kitchen street-side, the more I like it. It makes the railing a feature rather than an obstacle.

    Of course, the biggest issue is space on the sides of the bed. To remedy that, Prairie can you cantilever the bump out 18" on each side? I think this would increase the alcove width to allow 30" on each side of a 60" bed. This is the quickest picture I can find to show what I mean by cantilever:


    My second thought is that if the closet could be moved to the bedroom door, it would be really cool to put barn or french doors at the foot of the bed as the bedroom entrance.

    Here's a large scale example of what I'm describing:


    Lai Residence · More Info

    I went down the rabbit hole a bit moving stuff around to play with the french door idea. I didn't have good reference dimensions and decided to just stop here:

  • Jillius
    8 years ago

    This is how I was picturing the downstairs entry with a closet next to the landing:

    I am not sure what Prairie had in mind. But this is where I thought people would kick off their shoes (maybe in a shoe rack in the bottom of the closet) and hang their coats before walking upstairs to the rest of the apartment.

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Back again…. Have been popping in and out all day to follow along and to keep coming back to the 3D renderings of Jillius’s layout. [Only being able to consider one layout at a time].

    So here are my thoughts…..there are things about the layout that I like and things that I don’t.

    What I like about the layout is the kitchen looks better to me on one long wall. I always like a refrigerator that is surrounded with cabinetry that allows the shape of the refrigerator to be disguised and this layout allows for that.

    I like the sight line from the LR to the kitchen.

    I have a couple of problems.

    The bedroom - if the only option is to have the bed in the nook, it’s just not going to be practical. but I did see someone realized there is 8ft there and with a Queen bed, I think there is 18” on either side for a table and to stand up next to the bed to make it. So that at least makes it possible but not really feeling it is ideal.

    BTW - someone asked if I could change the dimensions of that nook and no I can’t. It has to do with the roof lines where they intersect between the two buildings.

    But basically there is a bed and a hallway from the kitchen to the bath and maybe you were trying to do that, to create the sight lines. I would want room for a chest of drawers and with the bathroom back to the original 5x8 size, there seems to be room for that. The closet appears to be 7ft long as in the old layout but with the 24” depth. The washer dryer I would want to use would be the stacking washer dryer that Meanom linked to. I prefer the top loading to the front loading. That particular model is 27” deep by 24” deep and needs room for plumbing. A washer near a counter is preferable to me, because in my experience, that is the best position to be in when you have back issues, standing at a counter height, to fold and sort clean clothes, so having it in the bedroom is not an advantage, to me.

    The bed in this layout is now sharing a wall with the main house and that is not ideal for me either. We are hoping to have sound proofing between the two buildings, but a bathroom is less of an issue than a bedroom. And that was an issue that was raised by the relatives.

    The bed has only one position in the bedroom forever. No way that you can move it or change it. You are facing closet doors. While it’s a fun idea to have windows on both sides of the bed, I can think of a few reasons this might not be an advantage. [g] It’s a romantic idea but I think it is not really very practical in the end, the novelty will wear off.

    I like the kitchen, as I said, but….I’d still rather have high windows on that wall and I don’t think they work very well with a kitchen, but, maybe they could. Still mulling it over. I think you gain the cabinet to the side of the refrigerator, but basically it is the same kitchen as the L kitchen but in a straight line, maybe a little more counter space, base cabs between the sink and range.

    I don’t see how this is a good layout for entertaining. The only seating in the LR is a 3 seat couch. The table and chairs is not adjacent to the Couch, so people sitting there are not going to be having a conversation with people on the couch. The kitchen is a little out of the way from the LR and no conversation is going to happen between the LR and Kit either. If you move the refrigerator and cabinet to the other end, you have the stove and sink close enough to the table and chairs to visit with anyone sitting there while you are working, but, I like the view of the refrigerator and cabinets from the LR better. Again, I like the kitchen and don’t even object to the table and chairs.

    The large hallway wall. That is a large blank wall. And while I like the inspiration photo with all the artwork on it, the relatives don’t have any particular artwork that they would be looking for that amount of space to use. Yes, it could be filled with photos. And I get the open feeling with the railing and the windows. I’m not sure in such a small space, that you have the luxury of creating this hallway, when the bedroom and LR are still not ideal.

    The Living Room to me is really not that much different then the first layout. The TV is in front of the windows. It’s isolated in a way. There’s still no more room in the LR for entertaining.

    So, I’m still thinking about it, I haven’t ruled it out. I’m planning on reviewing it with the family. You did fit an amazing amount into the layout and added the sight lines.

    I just want to point out, that I’ve been happy with the bedrooms in the layouts that have two walls with windows and a good size closet. I’ve never been unhappy about the bathroom. The kitchen, even in the L shape, seems to have all the necessary ingredients and when we moved it to the location where a window over the sink was added, I was making that work. The storage is great in most of the layouts.

    The problem has always been the living room. I would really enjoy having room for a couch and a chair and at least one side table, a coffee table/ottoman and a place to put the TV that makes sense. But I don’t think I’m going to be able to do that in any of the layouts due to the width of the space or without changing what I like about the rest of the apartment. Maybe I would be happier if we just ditched the old couch and bought a sectional right from the start and planned for it. And maybe I should consider ditching the idea of a pantry and a washer dryer all together and make do without it and create more space.

    And I can’t argue with the sight line from the LR to the kitchen in your layout being better than the visuals in the other layout. You remember I started out trying to have a big wide 5ft door between the bedroom and the LR and gradually gave that up to improve the kitchen and the storage.

    I would like to adopt your suggestion Jillius to have a railing rather than a wall regardless of the layout. I love all your ideas about what makes a space feel larger. They are on the money. I really appreciate all the time and might I say, passion, that you put into your layouts. I think you have a lot of talent and knowledge.

    That’s it for me tonight. I should be able to take a look at the other ideas tomorrow morning. I know I've missed a lot but I'll catch up then.

    Thank you so much Sena for all your hard work on the 3Ds. They are really amazing. Love the travertine on the wall and the carpet on the floor in the LR…lol. I’m going to be sharing these with my family this weekend and see what they think of all the different layouts.

  • sheloveslayouts
    8 years ago

    When I count squares on your graph paper, prairie, it looks like 7 feet. You'll have 8 feet in the alcove?

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    BBride - Yes, from my designer's plan it appears he has a full 5ft x 8ft inside the walls. He has planned for that to be an 8x5 bathroom all along. It will share a wall with the Master Bathroom on the second floor of the Main House and the plumbing will be right there.

  • rebunky
    8 years ago

    Well, cruddy, crud, crud! I just had a new idea pop in my head and went to erase the stuff in my last drawing and realized I had the outside dimensions totally off! (insert face palm) Sheesh, I need to get me one of those computer programs. What is an easy one that even a dodo bird like me can figure out?

  • Jillius
    8 years ago

    Prairie, in your assessment of what was missing from your last layout, you mentioned that you were happy with everything except the living room. Given your reaction to Sena's 3D views of that layout, I don't think it's just the living room. It's also the relation of the living room to the kitchen/seating. You clearly do not like (and I totally agree with your assessment) how squished together the family room and kitchen are. They're almost running into each other and lack definition in a way that looks weird and makes the space look too small because what you have in there doesn't fit well. (That is why the kitchen looks so prominent.)

    I think that is actually the real challenge of your space. It's that it's damn hard to get every element to fit without looking weird and uncomfortably thrown together.

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Jillius, No, you're right….and that's why I said, that it was the sight lines as well that bothered me about Sena's 3D renderings in the first layout. I have wanted to make the most of those since I started. You were right to try to solve that problem and you did a great job of it with what there is to work with. I really prefer the kitchen in your layout, of course and the sight line, but….even if the LR and Kit space looks like they are running into each other, in the other layout, that happens in many small apartments. And people who remodel their homes often take the wall down between the kitchen and LR to have one big great room, for the very reason I find your solution not to work for the LR, that they want to visit from the kitchen with those sitting in the LR or family room. Unfortunately, I don't have the right amount of space to make that visually appealing or even as much space to allow for adequate seating. Your solution solved the sight line, but not the conversational flow or the seating.

    I did think about moving the stairs in your layout to allow the table and chairs to be adjacent to the LR, which would at least allow more seating in the LR area together, and then a host would just need to work in the kitchen and join in when they could, but that still leaves me with all the issues I have with the bedroom.

    I can't see how I can be completely happy with anything we come up with, because my mind is always going to go for the ideal, but there will be some compromise in this space. I'm working toward finding the compromise I can live with. I think I will know it when I get to it.

    When I remodeled my kitchen I went through the same process. That wasn't ideal either because I have a small cape and I went back and forth awhile and kept looking for a different solution I liked better, but eventually, I accepted I had all the options there were and I settled on the one that was the most acceptable. I never spent one day feeling disappointed with my choices and my kitchen space works very well. It's connected to my Dining Room and not my Living Room and visually I don't like that about it and I'd prefer a family room connection, but in the footprint I had to work with, that wasn't possible.

    When we have only a few people over, they don't sit in the LR or the Dining Room, they sit at the counter in the kitchen. We can seat 5 people max at the counter. Our immediate family is five total. If we have more people then we seat people to eat at both the dining room table and the counter and after dinner, people almost always remain in that space and rarely migrate into the Living Room, unless we were watching a football game or something. And for the reason that our Living Room only seats 6 people comfortably any way. Sometimes when it's just immediate family we might eat in the LR to watch a show together with tray tables. But everyone in our immediate family cooks and when we get together, there's usually two or three people cooking in the kitchen at the same time, so, that's why the counter is the gathering spot. My dining room table that seats six, is steps away from the kitchen and we might have used it at the holidays last year and that's about it.

    The relatives who will live in this space, are not social butterflies by any stretch of the imagination. They are homebodies for the most part. But who knows, with a new space, that might change a little. So the space needs to be comfortable for them first, but anyone that lives there, is going to need the space to function as well as possible when company comes.

    Jillius, if you were going to live in your layout, how would you entertain? Let's say if you had 6-8 people over?

    I think I'm going to have to just sit with both layouts for a week or so, and let the ideas percolate. Also want to look at the other ideas everyone contributed this week and show the layouts to the family and see what they think.


  • Jillius
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    To entertain 6-8, I'd have a coffee table that transforms into a round dining table. Seat two on the couch and 4-6 on chairs (two of them would be sitting on the chairs borrowed from the kitchen table and the rest on folding chairs kept in the garage). It's doable.

    That said, if I lived in this apartment, I'd never have more than 2 or 3 friends over at once, and then all of us would sit around the kitchen table if it were pulled away from the wall/railing. I actually had that option in mind when I drew the plan, but you said earlier that you don't like tables and also that entertaining would probably never happen in this apartment, so I didn't mention it. I was still pleased that you could have a friend or two over easy peasy, just in case. (I had also thought of pulling a dining table chair (or more than one) into the living room when necessary for sitting and chatting in there instead of the table.)

    The concern of how you might have 6-8 people over might be bringing house expectations to a small apartment. Living in a small apartment means if you want to hang out with a large group, you usually go elsewhere outside your apartment. To a restaurant. Picnic in a park. Co-host the evening with a friend who has a house with an actual dining room. Something like that. (You had mentioned you thought your relatives would just entertain in the main house or in the backyard, if they entertained at all.)

    I don't think anybody moves to a sub-500 sq. ft. place with the intention of hosting perfectly appointed large parties. You either don't have big parties in your home at all or you embrace creative seating and relish the joyful chaos of stuffing a ton of people in a 1-2 person home.

    I would encourage you to think instead of how this apartment would most often be used and make sure it works well for that. It's good to leave the option for rare unlikely stuff, but not at the expense of how it will be used every day.

    In this case, if I lived here, I would strongly prefer on a day-to-day basis that the kitchen and living room were a bit more separate than in the previous plan. It doesn't have to be the way that I suggested, but I would want them to feel like two different zones/rooms. Makes the place feel bigger. Lets me not stare at the extreme amount of junk my husband is always leaving on the kitchen counters. Lets me get a little bit away from my husband. I would like being able to get up and move from the living room to the kitchen table and truly feeling as if I've changed locations (I work from home, and not being in the same room all day long is very important for my sanity).

    The perhaps the one day in five or ten years that I'd have 6-8 people over, I would not expect my small apartment to be ideally suited for 6-8 people to be there. We'd just make it work. People wanting to visit the cook would sit at the kitchen table. Or stand. Or help cook. And it's not as if the people chatting in the living room would be isolated from that kitchen socialzing. It's small apartment. A person in the living room can talk to a person in the kitchen without raising his/her voice. The kitchen table is fully visible and in hearing distance of both the kitchen and living room. It'd all work fine.

  • sena01
    8 years ago

    My PC died yesterday and I'm on an I-Pad now. nothing new to suggrst since I can barely type.

    Call me thick-headed if you want, but I just realized how big your couch is. I could see it was big, but I'm accustomed to meters so the dimensions didn't bother me until I looked at the dimensions of the bath. Seriously! The couch nearly fills the bath.

    I don't think any LR size would satisfy you until you decide to get rid of that couch.

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Jillius - It’s interesting, you said, ‘the concern of how you might have 6-8 people over might be bringing house expectations to a small apartment.’ I just realized, I have only lived in an apartment, once in my entire life for six months and that was about 40 years ago. lol I’ve always lived in single family homes. So that lack of experience is probably part of it.

    And yes, it still stands that 3 friends over at a time is probably the limit of what will happen with my relatives in this space now. Holiday dinners in the main house. Makes sense if you want to get together with more, you’d go out. I do have one child, who is a social butterfly and has a lot of friends, so if at some point, she was ever the occupant of the apartment, that might be something she would want to improve upon.

    And I am thinking of how the apartment would most often be used on a daily basis, as in the bedroom issues, but trying to get every last drop of options out of it at the same time.

    And I’m not convinced that the living room and kitchen should be their own separate spaces at this point. You bring up ‘looking at junk on the counters’…lol. So you would really like to move into this apartment with that layout? [g] To me, if you have a comfortable bedroom, as you do in the other layout, you have way more ability to get away from a second person in the apartment. Room for an easy chair or a desk and close the door, you’re all set. You can do the same thing in the bedroom in your layout, but with less space and the nook is not a comfortable arrangement for older occupants. But, I've been talking to my husband about this today and it seems to boil down to less room in either the bedroom or the living room. I don't seem to be having success with trying to make them both the size I'd like them.

    When we were first married, we used to host 25-30 people for the holidays three or four times a year, every year. Folding banquet tables in the living room and folding chairs. So I’m no stranger to making do. It was fun. So 6-8 doesn’t sound like so many. Our kids are all adults and three adults with their partners is 6-8 people right there. And add the dog to the mix. The cats are not invited, due to allergies in the main house.

    No, I’m not going to design the apartment to make hosting 6-8 people ideal, but consider that you said,

    “I would not expect my small apartment to be ideally suited for 6-8 people to be there. We’d make it work”

    But guaranteed, on that day you tried it, you would think of something that you wish was different and had been anticipated when the space was designed, to make working it out, easier. That’s all I’m trying to do with that.

    No standing watching someone cook….very uncomfortable to have someone standing and watching you while you work. Helping cook, sure but only one at the most is going to help in this kitchen without getting in the way.

    Don’t forget, the main house is 4ft shorter in length than this apartment and my kitchen//living room stairway and part of the dining room, fit into that 17ft x 25ft, footprint. That’s without the bathroom or bedroom. So, I live in a layout where the LR is separated from the kit/DR by the stairs. So, I guess we are just going to have to disagree about the way in which those spaces are used comfortably.

    I’ve run out of time today, but I will be around hopefully over the weekend. Thanks.

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Sena, I didn't see your post before I posted……what happened to your poor PC? I hope doing these 3D renderings didn't cause a problem. So sorry to hear it! Will you be able to get it fixed?

    Thanks for your thoughts on the couch. I've been surprised to see how much of the floor space it takes up too. It didn't look that large where they are now. I did start looking at sectionals earlier this morning. $3,000 to $4,000. I am going to keep thinking about it and looking. I wonder what size the average couch is? Is it that much smaller? Maybe, I should ask them to check it again. That is 7+ feet long. That does seem large.

  • sheloveslayouts
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Oh my goodness. I recommend you NOT shop for furniture - especially a sectional! - until the floor plan is sorted out. IMO a sectional would be s terrible choice for a small apartment. Think love seat/ small nesting end table/ unupholstered side chair.

  • sheloveslayouts
    8 years ago

    If you have an IKEA in your area--and you haven't been--you may benefit from checking it out. They have a few vignettes set up like a complete apartment. "Living in 350 square feet" type setups.

    also, if you google "Apartment Therapy Small Cool contest" you'll see pictures tiny apartments of real people. Apartment therapy holds a contest every year and the submissions are very clever for small spaces.

  • Kippy
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I would love to see this as a new thread with your must haves restated and the set outline of the building. It is so long I got lost along time ago.

    One thing I would reconsider is just how the occupants actually intend to live and not how you would live if you had this space. For example, I would want at least an 18 cu refrig but my mom has a bigger one that is usually mostly empty, I would go for a 16 cu instead. I would love a pantry, but since the food is coming in the garage, I would use some of that garage space under the stairwell for it and have more counter space. I would love a washer dryer in the unit, but would probably rather have more space in my living room and also tuck that under the garage stairs. A king sized bed is nice, but maybe a queen is a better compromise for such a small space.

    If the plan is to use it as a rental in the future, I would plan based on one or two people max and not worry too much about them throwing parties. Chances are they would be heading elsewhere and you really don't want that many guests walking through your garage to a party anyway.


    Edited to add;


    Crazy thought, if the relatives are older or have mobility issues, would there be a ground floor room in the main house that can be converted to their use and then this garage addition be attached in a way that you could use to replace the missing space in the main house? Maybe a new family room or nice master with a private entrance?

  • Jillius
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I second looking at the entries to Apartment Therapy's "Small Cool" Contest. They have different categories inside the contest, and the most relevant to you are these two:

    • TEENY-TINY 400 Square Feet and under
    • TINY 600 Square Feet and under (but over 400 Square Feet)

    You may also find some interesting options in the "INTERNATIONAL" category, since that one has apartments of all sizes mixed in. The apartments in this contest are unusually well organized/decorated for small apartments, so they'll give you an idea of the best you can probably expect from yours.

    Here is a link to all the 2014 Small Cool contest apartments:
    http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/contests/smallcool/2014/entries

    And a link to all 2015 ones:
    http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/contests/smallcool/2015/entries

    You'll find that a functional kitchen, storage, laundry, and a real bedroom are the first things to get pitched in apartments of this size.

  • yeonassky
    8 years ago

    Yes please. New thread!

    This is a fascinating read and would hate for people not to see it but it is unwieldy for many on older computers etc. Love this forum for clear thinking out and inside the kitchen box. Looking forward to pt 2. :)

  • Jillius
    8 years ago

    This time I made the bedroom/bedroom closet/hallway situation more comfortable at the expense of the kitchen, stairway width, and sight lines.

    • There is a wide doorway (roughly 5' wide) between the living/dining and the kitchen. Provides separation of the spaces and hides the kitchen mess while still keeping things open.

    • There is a large passbar above the sink/DW so you can see out the north windows from the kitchen.

    • TVs in bedroom and living room are wall-mounted. I know you don't like that, but it gives you the function you want without taking up space you don't have. Might want to warm up to wall-mounted TVs.

    • Large walk-in-closet means you can hang most of your clothes. Drawers under the bed or the in the nightstands can take care of the rest.

    • 30" walkways on either side of bed -- more in front.

    • There is a counter-height counter to fold clothes on.

    • Don't have to go through the bedroom to get to the bathroom.

    • Hallway provides separation and privacy for both bed and bathroom.

    • Although I didn't draw it in, you could easily have a chair in the living (on the side nearest the stairs).

    • For the purposes of seating people facing each other for conversation, you don't actually need a chair in the living room because the dining table and its chairs basically face the couch.

    • All appliances are 24" wide except for 18" dishwasher.

    • Sink cabinet is 24" wide, so the sink will be small. I'd suggest using the 24" IKEA domsjo farmhouse sink to max out the interior sink dimensions.

    • Range hood vents through the roof.


  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I would like to start a new thread this weekend. I will keep the same title and put a 2 at the end of it. Can someone suggest what is a good starting point for the new thread?

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Phew! I just summarized everyone's posts that I missed, but I have to stop now. I should have time in the morning to post responses. And will start a new thread as soon as I can get all these posts responded to and prepare a new beginning for the thread. I'll use the suggestions that Kippy made. Good night.


  • rebunky
    8 years ago

    Looking forward to part 2 PM!

    I was hoping in the new thread you could answer a few questions that are nagging at me regarding the staircase. Sorry if as usual I am getting this confused. ;-) Thanks for baring with me if this was mentioned and I missed it.

    Remember when Jillius talked way earlier in this thread about the staircase and using a 7" riser and 11" tread?

    I was wondering, do you know what numbers your designer is using for the rises and treads to determine the space needed for your staircase?

    Do you know what the finished floor height of the apartment will be approximately? Finished garage floor to finished apartment floor or the ceiling height of the garage plus the floor structure above?

    I found a cool website that calculates the stairs. I just guessed on your finished apartment floor height at being 9 feet. 8' garage ceiling height plus a 12" floor structure. The floor structure can vary, so that would be great if you knew that measurement. The picture below at least gives a basic idea.

    I plugged in 9' for the total rise, 7" for the riser, 11" for the tread. 4' stair width. (Which btw IMHO is really wasting space you need! I hope you just go with 3' wide staircase instead) Floor thickness at 12". Headroom was already in there at 6'8", so must be standard.

    In the picture of the staircase it shows the total number of runs at 14. Total number of risers at 15. That's over 12 feet of space needed just for the stairs.

    Notice the total floor opening at the top? That's over 11 feet. I think we are showing in most of these layouts maybe a 6 or 7 foot opening???

    See where the headroom clearance ends? Basically it's on that second step. I think we cannot go as far as we think over those bottom steps. Unless you did something above there that bumped up the floor like a raised closet or something?

    I do remember DH saying there is a way you can add a just a few more inches by making the floor joist structure width less just in that area, but I really didn't understand what he was saying well enough to explain it.

    Anyways, I am just curious what your designer is planning? That way we can all be on the same page as we have fun playing with this puzzle of yours! :-)))



  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Hi Rebunky, No, I don’t know those exact numbers. I’ve brought it up to the designer a few times and he’s said that in the next set of drawings it will be exact. He seems to be comfortable with the dimensions we’ve been using for the staircase in the layout we’re using. And he knows that to fit the kitchen behind the stairway there’s no room to move it. I think he’s probably considering he can adjust the risers to fit the height? He has taken all the measurements from the beginning and he’s very experienced, so I’ve left it with him.


    If it would help you, I could give you measurements. The garage is at ground level and the floor of the first floor in the main house is 4 or 5 steps up. So, the floor of the apartment has to be level with the floor of our second level, right? If I measure the distance from the ground to the top of my front steps and from floor to ceiling on my first level, wouldn’t that give you the height of the garage, adding wood between floors to that, right?


    I doubt my garage ceiling will be 8ft. Our ceiling on our first floor, I think is a little shy of 8ft and then you have to add in the distance to the ground, which is more than 2ft, I believe. I will measure it later this morning and get back to you.


    That’s a cool calculator you found. And thank your husband for his input. It’s nice he takes an interest in your internet friend’s problems. [g] If we get stuck on that, we’ll have to ask him for the exact remedy. :-)


    To catch up with some of your posts….sorry, I don’t use a computer program either, so I guess Jillius or Sena might have to answer that.


    I was going to look at your last layout, then I saw you thought you had the exterior measurements wrong? So I counted them out and you have the length right, at 29 ft, but have the width at 19 and a 1/2, which should be 17ft so I’m going to scratch that one. Sounds like you’re working on a new one. :-)


    I’ll see you in Part 2.


  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    FunkyCamper -

    A murphy bed - not our first choice.

    Sorry you have had back problems. I know it’s no fun. I hope you both are doing well now! We have found PT and learning all the body positions to protect your back, made a world of difference in reducing repeats.

    Noise on the street - Our street doesn’t have a lot of traffic. Not much traffic at night at all. We have one neighbor across the street, with a very large family of kids and adult kids and they have a lot of traffic going in and out and a construction business, but their driveway is on another street, so we don’t see their trucks often. And they entertain about twice a month on the weekends and people getting in and out of cars or out front talking late at night. So it’s not constant noise. Nice neighbors, just active.

    You make a good point about needing to look out front and I’ll have to give that more thought and talk to the relatives about it. Although, on our second floor of the main house, a cape, there are no windows to the front and we can’t look out and it doesn’t bother us at all. We barely notice what’s going on with the neighbors across the street, on the second floor. We come down to the first floor if we need to look around.

    I’ve used that lace curtain trick on a window I didn’t like the view of.

    Your thought that I may be focusing on problems that aren’t really problems….lol. No, actually, it’s just my own personal process, of anticipating problems in order to plan as well as I can. I’ve done alright with that. :-) We all know what bothers us and what doesn’t and what we like and what we don't. We’re all very different.

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Meanom - Thanks for the link to that stacking washer/dryer. We prefer the top loading machines. I have not liked the way our front loader has worked since we switched over. I don’t think it gets the clothes as clean. And wow are they noisy.


    Putting the bed on the side wall, makes that much difference with noise? That’s surprising. That’s true about older people waking up easier to noise.


  • rebunky
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Yeah scratch that last one, totally messed up on that one. Ha!

    Heres a little wild and crazy idea that will throw you for a loup...corner stairs....:-)

    Just playing with something new, and not sure if it would even work for the parking underneath. The stairs are all the way to the back of garage, so maybe?

    Sorry it so sloppy and I took the picture propped up against my Jack Russell in my bed. Lol!

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    BenjesBride -

    I think we have different perspectives on the furniture in the apartment. One of the relatives who will live there is 6ft 2in tall. So, trying to have a slim loveseat and a slim side chair in the LR is not going to cut it. I would also think that people like to put their feet up sometimes when watching TV in the LR and if you had to put up a relative for the night, you’d need a couch big enough to accommodate that. I guess it gets down to function vs form for me. I do have it in my mind to try to find a different solution to the current couch, but not sure if that will happen or not. I hope I can.

    Actually, the stairway is 4ft wide including the exterior and interior wall, so it the opening is probably three feet 2 inches wide.

    You’re probably right, that having enough storage and having an open concept don’t go together.

    No, we can’t change the dimensions of the nook due to the roof lines between the two buildings.

    No, I’m not shopping for furniture before the addition is actually built, just considering what is out there.

    Thanks for the tip about IKEA. Our IKEA is almost an hour away so I don’t go too often, but I should take a trip out there soon. You’re right they have set ups that are pretty interesting. and Apartment Therapy - I’ve been there, but I could spend more time there. Good ideas.

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Yeonassky -

    Another back sufferer….I guess there are a lot of us out there. My back is not an issue really, but three family members have problems. PT and using the techniques given seem to keep that to a minimum. But we have learned to be as careful as possible, like you, who can afford their back to be out of commission.

    Is that true, that windows at the same height give better cross breezes?

    Ironing board for folding is a good idea in a pinch. I'll have to remember that one.

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Kippy -

    Yes, we are considering the occupants and consulting with them and sharing the layouts here.

    The garage is quickly filling up. We do garden, so a lot of space in the garage is needed for storage. We're also planning a small work area in the back of the garage. The relatives have asked if they could store a few things under the stairs in the garage. So I think everything needed is going to have to stay in the layout of the apartment. Good thought though.

    They do have a queen size bed, not a king.

    Not really following your idea about making space in the main house for part of the apartment? We all really want separate quarters. We're also working on renovations for the main house and need all the space we have.

    Good suggestions for what to include in new thread. See you in Part 2.





  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Yikes I just noticed there’s 262 posts to this thread!! Boy we all talk a lot …. lol!


    Okay…I’m all caught up except for your new layout suggestions, Jillius, which I’ll carry over to the new thread.


    If I missed anyone, please let me know in the new thread. See you in part 2.

  • rebunky
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Don't forget little ole me and my latest creation...Hehe!

    I was just thinking, I understand tall people and needing a deeper couch, think it could still work.

    Flat out, every thing will be tight!

    I actually measured out your 16x28 interior space tonight in my kitchen, dining, living room, which is all open. I tried to imagine a bedroom in there plus then added the kick out for the bathroom. What an eye opener. This is a tough one girl!

    I'll see ya in round two.

  • funkycamper
    8 years ago

    I don't want to add much more to this thread with the new part 2 but I just thought I would say that you have a downstairs to go to if you want to look outside, they won't. This is definitely a YMMV thing, I guess, as I would feel like I'm living in a cave if I had an entire side of my home that I couldn't see out of.

    I no longer have back issues. I did unconventional, non-invasive treatments which has me back to 100% with no restrictions. Thanks for asking.

  • Jillius
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I thought you had confirmed with your designer that you were using the exact correct dimensions we were using for the stairs? Like rebunky, I have been dubious about the dimensions even after you checked with the designer at my request because these dimensions are unreal for almost every staircase ever. I assumed I didn't totally understand how the stairs were going to work at ground level -- maybe they were starting higher or your garage was unusually short or who knows what. Now I am positive that you need more stair space in the apartment -- by several feet. You cannot adjust risers to fit the height without greatly violating code and jeopardizing the safety of people using the stairs.

    Which means most of these designs are going to be moot, since even 4 inches' difference would throw off most of these plans, let alone multiple feet. I would strongly, strongly advise you to get SUPER exact drawings to start Part 2 with. I suspect your designer said it was fine or about right because he wasn't thinking about it that hard and maybe thought you'd not do much with the layout anyway until he got involved later. You absolutely cannot have the stairs on the north wall like this?

    Or perhaps on the south wall if you didn't do the 5 x 8 bump out?

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Okay, well, I've posted to the other thread, where I'm at with the whole thing. I will check again on the stairway dimensions. No, building code does not allow for a stairway to be outside the building. Lot setbacks don't give me any more width to play with.

    There's too many elements that need to fit into this small space. I'm rethinking.

  • Ziemia
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Discussion continues here: Part 2

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