Ammonia will make brown spots on some stainless alloys.
Casey

Is "perfect kitchen" their terminology? If so, then from that alone I wouldn't put any credence in their evaluations. First, nothing is perfect, ever. Second, what works for me may not work for you, and vice versa. It's all about personal choice and full disclosure. You need to do your research and make the best decision for you and your family's needs and wants. As Sy Sims used to say "An educated consumer is our best customer." ;)

Consumer reports lost a lot of credibility with me when they mucked up car seat ratings. When that report came out, it just made no sense to me based on what I knew about car seats; and then when they retracted it, it made me wonder if any of their other ratings were reliable. I have seen their ratings of countertops before and those don't make any sense to me either. So I stopped paying much attention to consumer reports altogether.

They are biased against more expensive brands and, for washers, toilets, and any other water-using devices, any that are not water saving.

oasisowner -- to some extent, so am I. So I'm glad for their input in these regards. I'd LOVE a Viking range. Am I going to buy one? No, I'm glad to learn about what is realistic (ie, affordable), safe, and with good features for the rest of us. And, even though I don't live in California, I'm sussed to learn about water saving features.

zwizzle -- on the downside of CR, I also don't see the need for lots of bells and whistles. Electronic starters are not a necessity in my design. I also don't care about having water dispensers in my fridge -- the sink ain't that far away, friends.

They do a fantastic job! If you want to buy the expensive brands, no one is stopping you. They give unbiased reviews of every product they trial.

From the perspective of a consumer however (yep... it's in the name), price is as much a consideration as is performance! If you want to ignore that the vast majority of consumers are regulated by their personal economy to getting the 'most bang for their buck', then that is your choice. But for you to say that they are, in some way, failing in their job for not catering to your economic potentials, well, you have gone way past haughty on the humility scale.

"Oh... Victoria, doesn't the rabble just make your skin crawl? The way they look and smell after working all day... ewww! How dare this magazine take their considerations in mind when rating products. Their concerns should, of course, take a back seat to our provincial whims! Pass the coffee harvested by dirt poor laborers and sold in stores by people making minimum wages. I'll take a cookie - made from the efforts of farmers, baked by low wage factory workers, and also stocked by the peons - too, thank you. Oh... be careful dear, don't dent the silver..."

CR is extremely biased towards Kenmore appliances. I took their advice and bought a Kenmore dishwasher--worst appliance ever!

Recommending Kenmore is a bit suspect as well--many Kenmores are simply made by the big appliance makers--Whirlpool, Electrolux, etc.--and then the Kenmore label slapped on.

Also, regreen48, your class envy is showing, and it's not pretty.

Diana... Envy? No. Distaste for arrogant derision? You betcha!

Consumer Reports has been one of the most sincere, unbiased, and noble publications ever to champion the middle and lower classes. Its work has, and continues to be in service to those who do not have money to throw away on over-valued, and sub-par products.

CR has literally saved thousands of lives over many years. If you can afford to buy the best, then do it and stop complaining!

Accuse me of envy if you wish, but you and I both know that such scape-goating serves nothing but self-aggrandizing adulation. If I were the richest person on the entire planet, with no need for so-called envy at all, my points would still stand! Your accusation falls flat.

The fact is that CR writes from the perspective of the average consumer. It does not, and has never catered to the whims of those for whom money is no option. Your accusations not withstanding, for anyone reading this thread, an examination of motives is in order.

BTW... the example you provide is worthless. Simply stating that I have a fantastic Kenmore range, over 10 years old - operating, and looking as good as new - cancels-out such a statistically insignificant anecdote.

Well, I don't know if it counts as biased or not, but the car seat ratings a few years ago were so flawed that they had to retract them entirely. And only did so after they were confronted. So I question their factual accuracy. And their countertop information is also factually questionable. Laminate is not more stain resistant than stainless steel. When they get things like that wrong, I find it difficult to rely on them in categories where I don't know enough to know whether they are just wrong again.

Here's what they say about stainless steel:

It lets you integrate countertops in a kitchen with
stainless appliances for a sleek, commercial kitchen look. Stainless can
be welded, ground, and buffed to get rid of seams.

Pros:

Resistance to heat and stains is a plus.

Cons:

Steel dents and scratches easily and shows fingerprints. Drain cleaners and hard-water deposit removers can discolor steel.

Here's what they say about laminates:

Laminate generally consists of layers of paper or fabric
impregnated with resin over composition wood, and is much better looking
than it used to be thanks to new printing technology and decorative
edges. Laminate is available in hundreds of cool patterns and
interesting colors, and is inexpensive and relatively easy to install.
Use in areas of heavy use but minimal abuse. Laminates typically show
seams on the front edge and between the backsplash and counter, but
Formica and Wilsonart offer decorative edges that replace the dark line
along the edge of the counter. Another option is post-forming, a process
that uses heat to form and bend laminate sheets, making them look
continuous and without seams.

Pros:

Laminates excelled at resisting stains,
impact, and heat; they also withstood our abrasive pads nicely. They're
easy to clean, relatively easy to install, and are great for a tight
budget.

Cons:

Most versions have a colored top layer
over a dark core, which shows at the edges. Water can seep through seams
or between the countertop and backsplash, weakening the material
beneath or causing lifting. Laminate is easily scratched and nicked and
can't be repaired--so use a cutting board. Textured finishes are better
than flat finishes at hiding imperfections.

Where is any question of factual accuracy or question-ability???

Here's the article about the car seat ratings in case anyone is interested:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16691288/ns/business-consumer_news/t/consumer-reports-retracts-infant-car-seat-study/#.VaGMVnh2m24

They can get things wrong, but they can also provide some good information. You just have to use them as one resource among others, not a "be all, end all."

Thank you edible... after continuing comments against CR, and being curious of people's motives, I too wanted to know about this supposed major seat testing mess-up. I found that article and a few others.

CR was extremely responsive. Two weeks time is lightning fast in legal and publishing circles with the stakes at risk. They didn't kowtow to pressure. Instead, they did an internal investigation, and within a fortnight the article was retracted! That is the ideal measure of integrity!

In fact, the article had merit beyond what they decided was cause for retraction. Here's another article that was a follow-up to the whole affair that provides a telling example of the life-saving virtue of their work...

http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/articles/safety-record-special-report-how-consumer%E2%80%99s-union-shocking-child-seat-tests-forced

I linked an article about the car seat issue in my first post. And honestly anyone who knew anything about car seats thought there must be something wrong when those results were released. So CR really should have questioned those results before they published them. Not after scaring a whole bunch of parents with bad information.

And as the original post for this thread points out, regardless of their text descriptions, CR rates laminate higher than stainless steel for stain resistance.

I'm not saying they never get anything right. I'm saying that when they get the things I know about wrong, it makes me question their information on the things I don't know about.

crl_... and yet, by not wasting time by sitting on what could have been life-saving information, those tests succeeded in getting a seat recalled from the market. Thereby potentially saving countless infant lives and preventing the grief of many parents.

If even the potential of the tests being accurate was a possibility (and it was!) it would have been irresponsible for them to hold off publishing the results.

The course they chose - publishing the info, and then eating crow - shook up the industry, got the federal regulatory agency involved (usually the agency blindly accepts the self-testing of the manufactures), and succeeded in getting a poorly made seat recalled. That sounds like a win. It may not be perfect, but they avoided a lawsuit and saved lives!

I am at a loss to understand these complaints against CR!

I'm not sure if we are complaining about CR, just warning people not to take everything they print as gospel. If I read that soapstone was "average" at resisting stains and didn't do any further research, I might rule it out as a counter top. If I did do additional research I might find out that it doesn't stain and all things considered would be the perfect counter for me.

CR's information on soapstone...

Soapstone

It's beautiful and not as common as granite.

Pros:

Best for adding the beauty of stone to a
low-traffic kitchen. It withstands heat very well and small scratches
can be repaired. Slabs vary, visit a stone yard and pick the piece you
love.

Cons:

But it's easily sliced, scratched, and
nicked. Stain resistance is so-so and it needs to be periodically rubbed
with mineral oil.

==========================================

Again, where's the factual inaccuracy or questionable reporting?

Everything they said is true and proven by their testing and the common knowledge of any reasonably informed person. If it is inaccurate, then sue them!

When you say "it doesn't stain", perhaps what you should say is that: as of yet, it hasn't stained in your kitchen.

I've had my say, and henceforth I'll try to stay out of the discussion, but it seems every month there's a thread with attacks on CR. One questions the motive!

I don't wish to debate the accuracy (or bias) of CR ratings, but when it comes to kitchens, input from actual users, i.e., people like me who use these products daily, usually has a greater influence on my choices.

I've had my say, and henceforth I'll try to stay out of the discussion, but it seems every month there's a thread with attacks on CR. One questions the motive!

I question your motive, rgreen48. CR is a resource but it's not infallible. It's also not the only resource I would trust. For example, your copy/paste of their statements about laminate. It's not very stain or heat resistant. I should know. I'm 57 and I've never had anything but laminate in a kitchen.

I also don't believe I've ever seen much comment about CR either way, here at GW.

I think you work for them.

Actually soapstone doesn't need to be periodically rubbed with oil. That is entirely optional, in fact some people prefer not to. Also soapstone is non-porous and impervious to acids, stains and chemicals.

So, I would say that their description in this case is misleading. Again, I think they get a lot of things right, but like everyone, they can make mistakes.

Funky... the complaints on this thread were second hand information-rants against the results and information provided by CR. I neither work for CR, nor do I represent them in any way. Instead of listening to complaints about what people thought they had said, I simply searched the CR website for first-hand information.

What I found, I posted. Everyone knows that soapstone is a very soft mineral and that even according to owners of soapstone countertops, it does in fact need maintenance to maintain a clean appearance. Here's an article from GW where owners describe this problem. Note: they all say that while in most cases it may not stain permanently, it does stain from even the tiniest bit of water.

While oil is not strictly necessary, those who would rather not have a rustic look will want to use mineral oil. As edible said, 'some' people prefer not to.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2666711/does-soapstone-stain

Laminate is extremely resistant to stains and heat. That is an undisputed fact.

And as far as anyone not aware of the on-going attacks against CR on this website... http://www.gardenweb.com/gardenweb/query/consumer-reports

Here is the deal... those of you who have and like soapstone.. you defend your choice. Those of you who have and use stainless steel, you defend your choice...

That's the aspect of human nature that some are using against your own interests. People who want to sell you the most expensive and high mark-up items use your own prejudices against your own interests. If you simply read the information, read the entire article in CR for yourself, you will see that they did their best to honestly rate each material by its pros and cons and exhaustive testing.

Laminate countertops, for example, have no value to those impressed by financial showiness, but for the money, they are often a much better buy than many other, more expensive choices. That is all the article says when they compare the cheap products to the more costly!

What I like about CR is that they are clear about their criteria for judging. Now their criteria are not always mine, so I have to take that into account when evaluating the results. I got a Silgranit sink, which they didn't like much for durability because of the way it responded to dropping a cast iron skillet on it from some height. So I'm not gonna do that!

Also, they rank things 1, 2, 3 in some absolute sense without pointing out that even within their scoring system, the products scored 98, 98, and 97, which are all the SAME number, given the uncertainties and subjectivities involved. So I say take it for what it is and look closely at the details, but nobody else tests things like they do.

And they don't take advertising, so their biases are not financial, except for the fact that they do rate economy higher than some people do. I'm inconsistent, personally, in that I am sometimes quite frugal and sometimes not, but they kinda always are.

funky said, "I think you work for them."

Yep! that was my first thought too.

And like zwizzle said, I trust the people who use the products daily over testing in a laboratory.

rgreen said: "Laminate is extremely resistant to stains and heat. That is an undisputed fact."

Oh really? It's resistant to heat? In what universe because like funky, I had laminate in most of my homes and I'm even older than funky and I recall ruining laminate with hot pots. And someone must have ruined the laminate in my last house before I moved in because it too had brown marks like burns on it.

I once put a burn ring in my laminate countertop with a pan right off the stove. My own stupidity as an inexperienced cook. It will take the heat from a pan out of a 350* oven. But, I've never seen stained laminate, and in my area laminate is virtually all you see.

So I would say it is extremely stain resistant and so so at heat resistance.

Laminate is extremely resistant to heat in the universe where the word resistant doesn't mean impervious.

As the article points out, if heat resistance, or even a countertop that is completely impervious to heat is more important to you than other factors, then there are other materials that are available.

Again, where are the factual errors in their assessment?

Well, nancyjwb and rgreen, I have had numerous stains on laminate. Every time I make jam, I get stains. I've even had mustard stains where it spilled and dried before being discovered. A few other things have stained, too. They always go away after a few days so it's not a permanent stain but it's definitely a stain. I'm a fan of laminate so I'm not dissing it just stating a fact.

I think CR provides a good service and I do sometimes go to the library to review their findings on major purchases. I would seek their advice more often if they allowed pay-per-article access online. I'm not interested in a subscription. I don't give them more or less weight in my considerations than I do well-thought out reviews by users.

And I appreciate that items with lower prices who perform well are scored higher. I do think the expense to purchase should be a factor. After all, a $500 range that performs well is really much more impressive than a $5000 one that does. I think it's a stretch to infer that they are some champion of the working class out to stick it to those who are more economically privileged, but since my name should be FunkyFrugal and I'm always looking for a bargain, I do appreciate their efforts.

There are a lot of folks on here who are doing budget remodels re-using and re-purposing cabinets, using laminates and other inexpensive counters, and low- to mid-priced appliances. Of course, there are the high-end kitchen as well. And budget kitchens done well get just as much love. I see no snobbery here.

I like each type of countertop for its positive characteristics. It would be nice to have a material that perfectly handles all kitchen use and abuse, but that doesn't exist. All CR was doing was explaining the pros and cons of each material. Because being a consumer of these different materials will necessitate an expense, that important factor is worked into the ratings. Cost, performance, and visual appeal are measures of value.

The aspects that you value in each material is important for your return on investment. Further, when it comes to countertops, just like cars, there is a bond that forms between the owner and the product. This is why so many defend their materials. The difficult thing is to accept that you love your choice, while accepting that others like theirs, and realizing that CR is not somehow the enemy of all things kitchen.

The reason I defended them against a few derogatory attacks in this thread, and other threads on this site, is because in a time when there are far too few, CR is one of the good guys!

We all know that the workmanship put into even very expensive products continues to decline. Solid, forged metal parts are replaced by plastic. Real wood is replaced by laminated pressboard, and manufacturer claims are ridiculously over-stated.

CR is the one group... I'll say it again... CR (really, Consumers Union) is the ONE group that stands in the way of complete disregard for the principle of craftsmanship in this modern age. CR is continually under attack by companies unhappy with their assessments. As others have said, they do not accept advertisements, nor funding from business interests. Their only defense is the integrity of their methods, and the honesty of their assessments.

I realize that many are upset when their favored products are questioned, and whether you like it or not, a person who is financially more secure can afford to buy, change their minds, and buy something else. CR has little value to people is such positions. They can afford the best, and if that breaks, they can buy another.

For people without such financial means, buying even once can be a hardship. They appreciate having a champion on their side in whom they can trust. Attacking CR with innuendo and rumor is nothing less than killing a mockingbird. They do nothing but sing for you, they do not deserve attacks.

It's one thing to question their results, but it's something quite different to say that they are untrustworthy based upon hearsay and false accusations of bias!

Ruin CR and their reputation and you'll soon see what happens when the last gatekeeper is taken away from their watch.

That is why I have defended them and support their efforts. That is why you should also defend them.

ediblekitchen, there are GW threads entirely devoted to stains and nicks/scratches on soapstone counters. Some soapstone is extremely soft and just pushing a coffee cup accross a counter can leave scratches. Not all soapstone is equal.

Funky- that's interesting that you get jam, mustard etc, stains on your laminate. When I was a kid, my family ate every meal at an antique laminate topped table. The laminate was a light gray/whitish pattern and matched the perimeter counters in my mom's kitchen. The top was buffed smooth as glass, the pattern was worn off in places and the edges were chipped, but there were no stains!

Again, Nancy, I have never lived in a home with anything but laminate from birth to today. We have also had laminate tables. The stains eventually wear off. Sometimes in only a day or two, sometimes a week or two. It depends on what caused the stain and how dark the stain is. If I scrub hard with a bleach-based cleanser, they come off sooner but it's rare that this extra effort actually remains the stain. Since I know they will eventually come off, I don't bother. I should also qualify this by saying that the older the laminate is, the more likely it is to stain. I'm sure it has something to do with sealers wearing off and/or microscopic scratches that let the color sink in a bit. But I have had it happen to new laminate as well. Berries, anything with dye in it like jello when still liquid prior to setting, Kool-Aid, and such are the worst offenders.

I like laminate. The main reason I'm not planning laminate in my current remodel is because I really want undermount sinks and I don't want to limit myself to brands of sinks that are designed to go under laminate (and then have to find a laminate installer that understands that process). So this isn't a slam against laminate. I just don't agree with the non-staining statements. Based on my personal experience, this isn't true.

Now, if I'm the one working in kitchen, this rarely happens because I tend to wipe things up immediately and then they don't stain. Unfortunately, DH and the kids refused to learn to do that. The only time I might be guilty of stains is when making jam because I get in a hurry and don't wipe fairly quickly as well as I should.

If CR says laminate doesn't stain they must not have met my mother-in-law. The first time she visited us after we moved into our first home she had permanently stained our laminate counters. She is Indian and the turmeric and other spices she cooks with would permanently stain the counters no matter what I tried. I was so glad when we ripped them out and replaced them with granite since she couldn't ruin them.

Hey funky- I don't have a problem with laminate either. That's all I've ever lived with too, but I think I'm younger than you;) I was just surprised to hear about staining because I've never seen any. I don't doubt you though:)

Also like you, the main reason I want something besides laminate is for the sink!

I'm interested to see how your planned zinc counters turn out. That sounds cool.

Another one who has laminate that never stained. Replaced one (light-colored) laminate with another just to get a different color and the "new" one (8 or 10 years old) doesn't stain either. I've never tested them with the hot pot test, but I have certainly seen burn marks on laminate elsewhere. I also got quartz in the new house, partly for a change, partly because I wanted an undermount sink this time. But I love the warm quiet laminate surface, and have found it plenty durable for our lifestyle. I can see some scratches if I look at it in just the right light, but that's about it. Agree that there is no one perfect material out there, so we all make compromises in one way or another.

I'm another one who thinks CR is fairly accurate and fair- there is no perfect counter top - if there was, we wouldn't be discussing it. I've lived with laminate most of my life and never had a stain or burn mark and mine never chipped even though I don't baby my counter....but I have seen cigarette and pot burn marks as well as chips on other people's laminate. I've also worked in labs my whole career and have seen stains, gouges and chips etc. on soapstone - but I still love soapstone counters they just aren't for me at this time.

I like that CR is independent - they set clear criteria so it's easy for me to see what they were scoring. But what I find most helpful is the response of their readers as to the repair record of various companies - the reliability of a brand. As a consumer this is extremely helpful - but I know that I have to factor in what my needs, concerns and want are. I'm also aware that when I purchase something that rated highly from a brand rated as very reliable - well I can still end up with a dud/lemon. Using the CR info can help me cut down on that chance, but doesn't eliminate it. As a wise consumer I also consider other resources in my decision and I know CR isn't perfect - no one is, but at least they try to be more impartial than other sites and they admit their mistakes unlike most.

I'm also glad there this is a wide choice and we aren't making identical choices or else the world would be a very boring place.

I thought their ratings were unusual in that they addressed staining separately from cutting, and for staining only, ss and soapstone rated below laminates (I know they scratch easily, especially if you cut on them). I have lived with laminate all my life and stained plenty of it, but I have never stained anything stainless steel.

I've had soapstone in the kitchen for 2 years now. I can't imagine it staining. It does get spots and rings on it but if you wash it well they go away. Those 'stains' are in the finish which is actually oil so you need to rub them out pretty well. I hadn't oiled mine in over a year and decided a couple weeks ago to do it again (min oil and beeswax). There were a couple spots but after cleaning well and re-oiling they are completely gone. The scratches disappear once the oil settles into them or you can sand them off and re-oil. After a year of not oiling it, the areas that aren't used much lightened up more than the area around the range and sink. It's all uniform now and looks great. This oiling is holding well, I think a couple more times over the next year and it will hold for good. People can get frustrated w/SS pretty easily if they expect a nice uniform finish, it takes a while for that to happen. If you choose not to oil it then it will get spotted up from anything that's oily or greasy and you'll have dark spots. I've seen rings on mine but they disappear over a relatively short time w/cleaning. I don't think SS is right for pretty much 90% of people as it's a stone that 'settles' in to your life. You can't expect it to look uniform and pristine except immediately after it's installed, it takes time to wear in. After 2 years it looks better than when we 1st had it put in (well, after the 1st 2 weeks anyway). If your the type of person who's in it for the long haul and don't let the fact it changes a lot initially and even over a couple years bother you then it "might" be for you. In recommending soapstone it's very important for people to understand it's anomalies. I can see why it's not recommended by CR, if I were them I wouldn't recommend it either.

Good point, Palimpsest.

I am considering which countertop material to install in my kitchen. One of my main criteria is the ability to put hot pots directly onto the counter (as I do now, but probably should not with my Quartz). Given the following info, which countertop would be the best choice? No scrolling back!!

1). Resistance to heat and stains is a plus.

2). Withstands heat very well and small scratches can be repaired

3). Excels at resisting stains, impact, and heat.

Just wondering.

sherri1058, a new thread might get you more responses. I'd say stainless steel comes the closest to meeting those criteria. It is very difficult to stain. It withstands heat well. But, it can be dented if the impact is hard enough. And it can be scratched fairly easily. Most people who have stainless countertops say that the scratches eventually meld together to form a patina so they don't stand out. There is no perfect countertop, IMO.

Crl - thanks, but I have already picked my counter. I am on holidays and am late to the party, but my point is, given the chacteristics of 1, 2 or 3 above, which is the best if I don't want to worry about hot pots. I'm thinking #3 from the description, but I would be wrong.

I just got a copy of the August issue that the Oasisowner posted about and it's quite a good article.

First of all, it's a 21 page article about how to "Create the Perfect Kitchen For You" - with sections focused on making a plan, defining your style, and choosing your appliances. There is a lot of detailed information and an example kitchen remodel that ended up costing $29,482. A lot of the information in the article was similar to what I've read here on GW.

However, with everything that the article covers, it can't really go in depth on any one subject. So, the section on countertops is very brief. There is about a 3 sentence summary of the most used types of countertops, and a ratings table.

I'm not sure what rgreen48 was quoting earlier, but here's what the article actually says about soapstone:

"Soapstone

$50-$100 per sq. ft installed

It's not as common as granite—and it's stunning at first. It resists heat damage, and small scratches can be sanded finely, then coated with mineral oil. But it nicks, cuts and scratches easily, and some tough stains won't wash away."

That is a pretty brief description and doesn't entirely jive with what I have found out about soapstone, but for a broad audience and giving a brief summary, it's pretty decent. Of course I think people should do more research than reading three sentences before picking a a countertop that they are going to live with for years.

I also agree with Oasisowner that the table has some "unusual" ratings. In fine print below the table, they described how they tested the counters:

• They applied 20 common foods and household products, let them sit overnight before cleaning.
• Sliced and chopped directly on the counters with chef's knives and serrated knives.
• Put a pot heated to 400°
• Ran a weighted sanding block back and forth 25 times.
• Dropped blunt and pointed objects from 3.5 feet

I personally would never cut directly on a countertop, but I can see how some of the other tests would be good at assessing durability.

Edible... just for the record, what I posted is from the "Buying Guide". That's a non-subscription information section of their website.

Here's a search results page using the term 'countertops'...

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/search.htm?query=countertops

and here's the 2 page buying guide...

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/countertops/buying-guide.htm

The only thing you really can't see without a subscription are some of the details of the testing and the ratings themselves.

The buying guides are usually available for free to site visitors.

Yes, I guess people do cut things on the counter sometimes. I would be too worried about my knives!

do people really just replace their dishwashers instead of fixing them?

Violetwest, I haven't run into this with dishwashers, but I have with washing machines. And even on one of the lower end bosch washers, which isn't exactly bottom of the market. The gasket ripped while it was still under warranty and I got that fixed.

But at about the four year mark, it stopped working. The best I could figure out online based on the symptoms was that the odds were pretty high it would be a $400 to $500 repair. And it would be over $100 service call just to diagnose it. The machine was a bit big for the space and at that point it didn't seem worth the money to fix it when we figured it was at least halfway through it's lifespan and if something else went wrong we would be out as much money as we would for new. The delivery guys asked if they could have it and I gave it to them. I hope they fixed it and are using it, or sold it for a profit.

If it had been a more expensive machine, the equation for paying for a repair would have been different.

Violetwest, over the years, both for our own home and for our rentals, the decision to repair or replace depends on the age of the appliance, the cost of the repair, and the cost to replace.

hmm. It's just that I need a service call on my 2 year old low end dishwasher, so the topic was timely. I will think upon it. Thank you for replies!