Help shaping large Jade

9 years ago

last modified: 9 years ago

This Jade was given to me by another member. I like the plant, but not the overall shape. it looks really good from the front.

As you can see from the back and side, it's lopsided.

Side view

With other plants, I've been able to visualize what I wanted it to look like, and trim accordingly. I've got nothing with this plant. I want it to look like a large miniature tree. Any hints, tips or suggestions?

Rob

Edited to add a picture of what it looked like when I got it. It's the one on the right.

Featured Answer

greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

9 years ago

It's really nice, Rob.

I think I'd just turn it so that the sun strikes that backside all day, until new branches appear. I think it will fill in.

Josh

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Comments (34)

whip1 Zone 5 NE Ohio
Original Author
9 years ago
It spent most of last summer with the bare side facing the sun. It doesn't want to grow there.......... I'll be patient and see if anything grows this year.
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Danielle The jade could use some pruning as ez suggested - the new growth is etiolated: there is too much space between the sets of leaves. This will not revert with more light, so if you want more compact plant, best would be to shorten them as much as you like. Pinching all tips may help some new leaves to sprout along the stem, but usually will cause branching - that is fine, the reason I am mentioning it is that if there are 'naked-empty' branches, it is harder to get leaves to grow and fill that space. I borrowed your photo to show what I mean: After pinching and pruning, give this plant more light otherwise the new growth will be also etiolated. Sunny window, or help with some supplemental lights. As for shaping the whole plant - do you have a 'vision'? How would like to see it grow? Lollipop top? Straight up? Tall? Short and fat trunk? Gnarly (lol) and old looking?...
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socks
9 years ago
What about pinching back new growth on the "front" side? I agree with facing the back to the sun or light. Nevertheless, it's a good looking plant.
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whip1 Zone 5 NE Ohio thanked socks
David Glyn
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I would completely defoliate, pruning small primary branches to a couple of inches, and for the larger branches, I would prune the branches coming off of them to a couple of inches.

Then I would wire branches and bend them to head into the 'dead space'. If you are not familiar with wiring jades, it can be a little tricky so I would watch videos on it/read about it/consult a local bonsai club. There will be those who say you shouldn't wire jades, but there are many who successfully do. I have done ok with it, but have broken a branch or two also.

Alternatively, you could defoliate and shape the new growth as it comes on- the clip-n-grow method. Any growth NOT going to the area you want filled in, keep trimmed at the growth ends, but if it's going where you want it then let it grow freely.

By the way, I think what you are calling the front may actually be the back and vice-versa. It looks like it had been trimmed by someone with bonsai goals, exposing the trunk and branching on a 'viewing side' of the tree.
kaktuskris
9 years ago
I guess I am not as picky as you are. I think it looks fine. I hate to see plants look too perfect, it is just not natural. If it were mine, I might give it a little trim off the top, and keep the best side toward me.

Christopher
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whip1 Zone 5 NE Ohio
Original Author
9 years ago
David, I've thought about doing a major trim, but I can't visualize the finished tree. That makes it difficult for me to cut. I've tried wiring Jades and it doesn't work very well. I've had this since it was a decent sized stick as pictured in the last photo. No trimming since I got it.

Christopher, It looks OK. :) I don't want it to be perfect, just more balanced. Leaving it be is also an option.
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rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
9 years ago
I don't have any experience of wiring jades, but I would think that branches should be more pliable to do it without breaking. I believe trimming as Christopher suggested + turning 'empty' side into full sun may help somehow.
Unless you really want bonsai tree.

Rina
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breathnez
9 years ago
Here's a link for some inspiration: A Few Jades

For anyone who is wanting to grow jades in a treelike fashion, I highly recommend:

Artistic Foundations of Bonsai Design by Andy Rutledge

It is free and online. There are 7 short chapters, and while it is a quick read full of illustrations, it is indispensable in my opinion for beginning to conceptualize what you want your tree to look like. I go back to it time and again for reference. Whip, it's the perfect read for where you and your tree are right now. Enjoy!

ez
breathnez
9 years ago
Btw, one simple thing you could do right now is look at the third picture you posted of your tree. The two roughly vertical branches side-by-side in the center could have a soft, wedge-shaped pebble pushed between them. This will bring the one branch somewhat out into the open space you are trying to fill. Over weeks of time you could progressively push the pebble down to increase the angle between the branches. It's a slow process so as to not break a branch. It might take a year of explaining why you have a rock in your tree, but it should help you toward your goal.

ez
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rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
ez

I think that first link you posted is to a thread by OP?...
breathnez
9 years ago
What's OP? I was just trying to show Rob's good branch structure and pruning.
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kaktuskris
9 years ago
I have read elsewhere on the forum that wiring Jades does not work, as the stems are not woody, unlike most bonsai trees. The stems or branches would either break or return to their original form after the wire was removed. I have not tried this myself, however.

Christopher
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rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
ez
Sorry, OP = original poster (of this thread - whip1 or Rob).
I was referring to the first link (A Few Jades) which was also started by him, showing other jades which he pruned.
No offense - it is great idea to post links, I do it all the time!
Rina
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breathnez
9 years ago
Ok I get it rina. I don't want to step on any toes, just wanted to show Rob's good work.

As to wiring, the more flexible the branch the more you can manipulate it. However, that also means the wire has to stay on longer until the branch hardens off. Since the branch grows quite a bit in that time, the wire needs to be cut off and new applied several times to accomplish a permanent change. I've used it to fill in a gap in the center of the canopy of a jade grove and a few other small projects.

ez
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whip1 Zone 5 NE Ohio
Original Author
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Using a rock as a wedge might work. I was hoping another set of eyes might see for me. I'll see what I can do over the weekend. Any other ideas?

Also thank you for the link to the bonsai design. I'll try to read that when I have more time.
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breathnez
9 years ago
Well I see it now and am I embarrassed. I linked to your own work Rob! I can only hope that at least you were flattered by it, haha! I need to learn to look at names better, but the truth is with the work you're already doing I wouldn't have imagined you wanting help with this tree.

Well...you want growth all around, but for that to happen in a significant way I would want to completely defoliate first to get a better view of the branch structure, removing branches I didn't think were helpful, then pruning heavily like you've done with your other trees. One branch I suspect should go is where multiple branches come off the top of the trunk. The branches so close together that I said you could wedge apart with a pebble? I think that with a defoliation you might see that the left one of those two could probably go. It's a very congested area and draws the eye to it too much. You could start by wedging them apart to see how it looks, but in the end I think the one could be sacrificed to open things up.

ez
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whip1 Zone 5 NE Ohio
Original Author
9 years ago
No need to be embarrassed. I am flattered and it made me chuckle. Thank you for the compliment on the other trees.

This
one has me stumped. Maybe a good whack is in order to help me see the
tree. I'll spend some time this weekend looking at it and see if I can
find a good solution.

Rob
breathnez
9 years ago
Looking forward to more on this, Rob.

ez
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breathnez
9 years ago
Any update on this, Rob?

ez
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whip1 Zone 5 NE Ohio
Original Author
9 years ago
After looking at it for awhile, I decided to whack it. As I stated earlier, I try to whack with a vision in mind, but there was no vision with this one. We'll see how it turns out. The site isn't letting me upload pics. I'll share them once I can.
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rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
9 years ago
Rob

I posted this on your other post:

I was able to upload photo if that was first thing to do; after the
photo showed, I typed the text either above or below the pic. Maybe you
could try that.

Rina
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whip1 Zone 5 NE Ohio
Original Author
9 years ago
That works, but I can only post one at a time............
rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
9 years ago
Rob

Yes, same here and it has been few days now; some ppl posted they don't have any problems...

That's quite a haircut :) now it is easier to see which branches to keep, which to eliminate...keep us posted!

Rina
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breathnez
9 years ago

If I could suggest some refinement, these four cuts. The lower cut is just to remove that stub, and as the tree grows this should provide enough room for fattening main branches. As for the two cuts on the left, I think it will provide for a more natural branch taper, and decrease in long straight branches relative to the length of the trunk helps with the illusion of great size. As for the upper cut on the right, those four branches all pointing the same direction might look awkward as refinement continues, plus I think the tree would look better balanced if the branch directly above the trunk were to become the new crown or leader. And again, any branches with too acute an angle can be remedied by a smooth rock wedged in between to increase the angle.

ez
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whip1 Zone 5 NE Ohio
Original Author
9 years ago
I think I agree with the cut suggestions. The large stub, I'm waiting to see if it dries up on it's own. I didn't want to cut it too short.
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rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Rob

I always cut them close to the 'collar' - in my experience, if too long, it takes long to dry off.

It calluses and looks great that way.

I would cut it shorter. I'll post photos (sorry, still having problems posting pics).
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rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
9 years ago
Here is the pruned and healed/callused plant (sorry, I don't have photo from when it was freshly cut) - it was cut very close to 'collar', just few mm:

Rina
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rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
This is same plant, 2.5yrs later: you can see the callused part didn't continue to dry below the collar:
I probably will prune off two small branches on right side. I like how the cut is getting less noticeable...Rina
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rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
This one was left about same lenght as yours - after more than a year it isn't any better...:
I will re-cut it.

Rina
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rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
9 years ago
This is the same plant as immediately above, back in 2014 when pruned
- I should have cut it much closer then:

Rina
whip1 Zone 5 NE Ohio thanked rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
breathnez
9 years ago
Rina, good pictorial demonstration of collars. I cut mine to somewhere around 1/4". What's left dries out over time and pops off as the branches grow and push it out of the way.

ez
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rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
9 years ago
Thank you ez...here is photo of couple of larger plants - top one popped off already - some scars are better looking than others :)
Rina
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breathnez
9 years ago
They should be less noticeable as the trunk/branch thickens though, right?

ez
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rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
9 years ago
I think so, but it takes time. And perhaps also depends on how 'well' they were cut? I am learning by trial and error :)

Rina
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