Put your concerns to rest. So long as you have sufficient space for the filter to mount up without chafing or rubbing any part of the machine (that could damage the filter body) you will be OK. As pointed out above, having an "anti-drain back" valve (check valve) incorporated into the filter is important. I personally think it is also important that the filter media be of a "waterproof" material (and Wix, to name one, uses waterproof media). ALL internal combustion engines produce water as a byproduct of the combustion process. During "cold start up", a significant volume of this water gets past the piston rings and into the crankcase where it becomes entrained into the lube oil. Usually this is a "temporary" condition as the water is later evaporated back out of the oil as the temperature of the engine and lube oil rises higher than the point where liquid water can exist. This phenomenon does not normally have any effect on filter media that is NOT WATERPROOF, especially in air cooled engines (because of their characteristic higher operating temps), as the water in the oil never remains there long enough to soften or weaken the filter media to the point of "matting over". Cold engines that are started up and shut back down without the engine ever reaching operating temperature are the ones most likely to suffer from water induced filter degradation (or failure). Liquid cooled engines that have a defective head gasket can have water contaminated oil before the complete failure of the gasket makes the defect apparent "otherwise". Liquid cooled engines that are operated with the thermostat removed (or stuck open) will also suffer more from this type of degradation because the engine "runs too cold" for longer time before heating up enough to evaporate the water from the oil. "Matting" of the filter media occurs if the (non waterproof) fibers of the filter lose some of their "structural strength" due to becoming pliable when they absorb water. As the fibers settle (pack down) on top of one another, or swell up in diameter, the filtration rating will increase (catch smaller debris) temporarily. It is "temporary" because once it gets "matted", it can no longer flow the same volume of fluid it was intended to. As the matting effect increase, the filter bypass valve will unseat, allowing some unfiltered oil to "bypass" the filter media altogether. A matted filter might bypass oil during a cold start up due the the inability of the media to flow the viscous, cold oil, and then resume filtering the oil once the oil warms and "thins out". Matting can also lead to tearing or rupturing of the filter media, which then allows some of the trapped debris, and sometimes, bits of the filter media, to be transported out of the filter and into the very engine components that are are supposed to be protected by the filter. Oil filter manufacturers (that use non-waterproof media in their oil filters) hide behind the disclaimer "it's an oil filter, not a water filter" to defend their choice of materials, and (hopefully) for most folks, the fine detail of "waterproof versus non waterproof" media will never become an issue.

Thanks Weed Cutter I have download the file and going to read it later tonight. That ok about the model airplane, this is more fun and useful. I can play with the motor and get something done. Believe it or not, this is cheaper than the model plane engine stuff if you get into the real fancy brand. I bought some used glow engine on ebay cheap and open it up, I know what you mean about gum. The ring stuck in the grove, ball bearing balls don't run at all!!! Yes I actually went on Navada Walrus (Bob's) page and look at his history, very interesting. How about you, are you very involve in this field also. I am surprised that people in this business like Bob, Canguy, they been in this field for so many years and still have the interest to get on this kind of forum and help people ( newbys) like me. I am an electronic engineer by trade, into gas engine as hobby( model planes cars and now lawn equipments) Anything smell gas, I like it!! I gave my wife all the excuses to buy the best toy for a tiny little 5000sqft yard!!!! BTW, to everyone: I start to do the experiment of putting 30:1 ratio in both my Echo HC150 hedge trimmer and my Shindaiwa EB3410 4 cycle blower. I pull out the plugs and inspect it. I'll do it again after 2 months and see whether it foul up or not and I'll post the result. I am using Shindaiwa One with Sta-Bil in 91 Octane Gas from Chevron. We'll see. I heard about too lean a mixture on 2 cycle or hybrid 4 cycle will hurt the engine because of high temperature and lack of oil in lean mixture. Then the ones with separate oil like Honda trimmer will fare a lot better if the mixture is too lean because the oil supply remain the same and oil will carry heat out even the mixture is too lean. Is this true from your experience? Have a nice evening

My bet is, if we had to do it again, we could probably have paid about $500 less, if we'd really pushed. [snip] I wish people could just be totally honest and we wouldn't have to play these games. Good ol' hindsight -- always 20/20! :-) Seriously, yes, you probably could have done better. But that likely would have taken far more time and information than you could spend. I know the insides don't really matter.......but this thing was like new inside. I hope the engine, etc. is the same way! The insides do matter. First, it's most of what you see when you're in the car. Second, if the inside was well-cared-for, the rest of the car should have been, too. But, in the future, you really should have a prospective used car examined by a mechanic you trust to make sure you're getting the deal you think you are. I have another question for you. I'm seeing some really low-priced cars that only have something like 25,000 miles on them. Can we read anything into that? Why so cheap?? The market for most used cars has softened considerably. Incentives on new cars (0% financing, rebates) and cheap leases made the price differences between used and new cars marginal and so people bought or leased new cars. With the continual incentives for new vehicls, used cars flooded the market. Speaking of flooding, there undoubtedly will be a bunch of cars from Katrina-stricken areas which some unscrupulous people will attempt to fix and sell off with a -- er, washed -- title. Those cars will be cheap to keep them moving. Also, most of these cars had a big yellow sign on them that said "No hassle pricing". To me, that means they just don't want to deal. What does it usually mean?? I think that statement is just plain silly. Are we stupid or what?? Are we supposed to think "Oh, how nice! We can just pay the asking price and have no hassles!" hahaha (We're stupid, but not that stupid) Lots of people enjoy haggling for a car as much as they enjoy getting root canal. Personally, I would venture that most of Saturn's success comes from their no-hassle, we're-all-friends-here demeanor, because it certainly isn't the cars or the great deals that keep people coming back. "No hassle" is an attempt to bring the price down some from full list to let buyers think they're getting a deal -- which they are, without the usual confrontational aspects of negotiationg; just not as much as possible. It should also be a little cheaper for the dealership because they don't have to burden their sales reps with so much dead time spent "speaking to the manager" -- they can be out selling cars. You'll notice that no one offers "no hassle" trade-ins (not even Saturn). Besides, how many things do you buy for which you actually negotiate? Groceries? Patio furniture? Insurance? Mortgages? In a way, "no-hassle" puts car-buying on the order of buying something in a department store. Don't like the price? Don't buy. I guess I was naive in thinking that it was safer to buy a used car from a reputable dealer. Am I totally wrong on that? The dealer has been nothing but honest and above-board with me on a regular basis. I've even taken my Odyssey in for weird things I've noticed, and they've checked it, and said nothing was wrong, when they could have ripped me off (like the volvo dealer used to). Maybe I should only feel good about buying their used cars, if they are precertified? Some manufacturers put limits on the cars they will sell "precertified" -- like how old the car is, how many miles it has,.... Just because a car is not certified does not mean it's bad -- though I would think less of a two- or three-year-old Civic sold by a Honda dealer that wasn't certified because that certification is worth more to the dealer. And the salesman said he couldn't do any dealing at all on the warranty....when we asked it to be included in our price. Of course, we just lowered what we wanted to give for the car, but have you heard of that before....that they don't include those in "the deal"? Well, maybe he couldn't deal on the warranty. But I'll bet someone at the dealership could. I've done it (and still refused the warranty). And I could see why the dealer would not be tripping over himself to swallow the cost of a "$1200" warranty in the price of an $8,000 car. I hate buying cars.......new or used. The reality of everything is just so variable! You've just provided Reason #16 why people like "no-hassle" pricing. :-) Buying a car anymore is a considerable investment. We all want to make sure we get it right. Having to haggle over the price when you don't know the real cost makes it that much more difficult.

I bought my brother's 90 Maxima over six years ago for $3K and am still driving it without too many maintenance costs. Bought my brother's 96 Avalon with 225K miles for my son over a year ago for $300. Had a minor front fender bender. I just bought a new headlight assembly and so far so good. It's a bigger car that was rated pretty good in crash tests - has front air bags. I would be leary about him driving an older car without air bags and the other recent safety equipment and design. I know it's not as safe as it could be since it had a minor accident and a lot of miles, but I keep an eye on it to look for worn parts. I knew my brother treated his vehicles well and did regular maintenance. Oh yeah, and we got him a new stereo, which was definitely high priority for him. So, there are cars out ther for that price. As stated previously, consider insurance costs, as they vary with type of vehicle and 16 old boys pay a lot! I just have liability on the older cars.