Fruit flies are not a problem. They won't hurt you and they don't spread disease. They'll move on when the fresh fruity stuff is rotted. Add some paper, card, dried leaves, etc. if it looks as if it's getting too sloppy. Which it might if it is predominantly kitchen scraps.

thanks. I will add some paper, cards etc.

If you can get straw, sawdust or wood shavings, shredded wood or shredded yard waste, that will work dandy for covering food scraps. Always keep them covered with something and you'll have fewer fruit flies.

Daisy, as I am reading this I can see you are getting a lot of conflicting information. The absolute best advice I can give you it to go out and get yourself this book : Let it Rot! The Gardner's Guide to Composting by Stu Campbell. Cost me $12.95 a few years ago. Hands down the best and easiest to read of any compost book I have ever run across in all my 35 years in the Horticulture field.

Daisy, are those fruit flies or fungus gnats?

Did you put a fair amount of rotting fruit in that compost, uncovered, or is the material you are composting quite damp?

Fungus gnats are more common in a too wet compost pile. Fruit flies are only a problem if a fair amount of fruit is put in and not covered.

kimmq is kimmsr

Fruit and vegetable scraps put into a compost pile should always be covered with something, shredded leaves or shredded paper, but something. Leaving that material uncovered is simply inviting unwanted vermin in.

kimmq is kimmsr

Daisy - they are almost certainly fruit flies. I don't recall ever noticing fungus gnats outdoors. Fruit flies are not a problem apart from being a bit off-putting when they fly up in your face. Put the lid on the bin or a bit of newspaper over the top of the fruit scraps. Or do a bit of weeding and put the corpses on the top.

U can cover it with dirt but when u add greens u need to add Brown's to balance it out

Daisy, you could use a sheet of newspaper but it would be better to tear it up a bit. Edges begin to decompose quicker than continuous sheets. I add paper while the compost pot is still in the kitchen. Sugar and flour bags, envelopes, greengrocer's paper bags, receipts, torn up bills, tissues, kitchenroll. It helps keep the compost caddy from being too soggy, gets rid of waste paper and helps the compost get going. Whatever you do, don't get hung up on the intricacies of ratios, etc. and don't start worrying that you are doing something 'wrong'. Some people love to analyse their composting activities and the making is of more interest to them than the gardening or environmental sides. But remember that everything that ever lived rots in the end.

You do not need to add earth to your compost heap.

I'm curious to hear why people seem to dismiss the concept of adding soil to compost. Is there some logic to why we should not add dirt, especially clay soil, to compost?

You can add soil but it is not needed.

I add soil from old pots, etc. I have also added compost which has weed seeds to the center of a hot pile. Not to cool it down but to kill the weed seeds.

Who says it is not needed? When u bury things they decompose very quickly.my pile is on the ground so when I turn it I mix in dirt from bottom n around the outside to throughly turn and mix it.works well for me.extra plants with the dirt they were started in goes into the pile.end of season after frost I empty pots plants and dirt into pile. Not enough Brown's I use dirt.partially composted it gets mixed in with dirt.compost is simple it's gonna happen anyway.u can put whole paper but if it is multiple sheets it gets very thick and takes a lot longer.I add whole Brown paper from packages and grocery bags.receipts contain some toxic chemical I forget which one so I wouldnt use those. When I was pregnant I read some where u should decline the reciept so u don't have to touch it unless u have on gloves. In my opinion adding dirt will speed up compost. Also buried compost attracts less flies and rats.

It was me....Gumby I said and I meant it - YOU can compost perfectly fine without adding dirt - perhaps YOU have NOT tried it BUT it does/will work AND the pile will heat up just fine withOUT adding any dirt.

It was me Gumby who also said:
"I add soil from old pots, etc. I have also added compost which has weed seeds to the center of a hot pile. Not to cool it down but to kill the weed seeds."

Gumby said:

"You can add soil but it is not needed."

AND certainly you can add newspapers - whole, cut, chopped, shredded, crumpled or otherwise..

chigardenlady(5b) said: "compost is simple it's gonna happen anyway."

So don't complicate it - Gumby said it.

In my opinion and in my compost pile dirt soil earth however you call it it is needed. If you add manure do you think there is No dirt? No matter how hot the compost is it is still going to have some seeds. Weeds and otherwise. I have tried not adding dirt when I first started to compost and had a plastic bin. Didn't work out so well and took forever and had uneven heating. No matter what you do the compost is going to happen, however what you add determines the quality of your finished product and also how soon you will get it.

Dirt is totally NOT a necessary ingredient to a compost pile. If some soil gets into the process, the organisms contained in said soil certainly could spread throughout the pile/bin/tumbler/whatever and assist in the decomposition process - but - are not required because everything that has ever lived will deteriorate naturally without any added inputs.

I also wrote that you do not need to add earth. Note the word need. If you want to add earth that's fine but it is not necessary.

'Not enough Brown's I use dirt'. Earth isn't a 'brown'.

Sir Albert Howards original recipe for making a compost pile included covering each layer, about 6 inches of vegetative waste, about 2 inches of animal manure, with 1/8 inch of good soil to introduce the necessary bacteria into the mix. Today we know that the bacteria that will digest the material put in to be composted are already present on that material so adding some soil to the mix is not necessary.

kimmq is kimmsr

Reading how to grow more vegtables by John jeavons rite now and the first chapter on composting gives the compost recipe and inculdes 10% soil. Quick quote " the use of soil is important because it enables the pile to hold moisture better, facilitating the decompostion of the pile. Contains microbes that enable the pile to decompose more easily. Holds many of the nutrient laden compost juices keeping them from leaching out."

That so many have flies of various kinds in their compost and since flies need a fairly moist environment to hatch from eggs and live in t4ells me that holding moisture in the compost pile is not as much a problem as Jeavons appears to think.

Sir Albert Howard also though that soil was needed to inoculate the compost with the need bacteria to digest that material, but today we know that most all of what we put in to compost already has the bacteria that will digest it on that material. Adding soil to introduce those bacteria, or microbes, is not necessary. If there is a flow of "juices" from a compost pile that is an indication the pile is too wet.

kimmq is kimmsr

I've got a Composter bin from Home Depot. It spins on metal "legs" . I add in leaves, grass clippings, fruit, veggie scraps, coffee, wine, egg shells, paper scraps. Problem is it never gets "hot". Stuff breaks down slowly over a period of months. What can I do to speed the process?

i also piled excess leaves in a corner last year. 4' by 10', about 2' high. I left it exposed to the air in a shady section of the yard and it broke down nicely. I use some in the compost bin, add it to the garden and dug a trench and added a bunch.

How hot any compost pile will get depends on the volume of material and the mix of material. There needs to be enough volume, generally about 1 cubic yard or more and a mix that is about 30 parts Carbon to 1 part Nitrogen. Then the moisture in the mix has to be just enough and not too much so the bacteria that work on the material have enough air. Too much moisture displaces the air needed for those bacteria to work.

Ma Nature has made leaves as about the best compost material there is with a Carbon to Nitrogen ratio of about 40 to 1 just after they fall, very close to the optimal of 30:1. Leaves also contain a fairly balanced level of nutrients to feed the Soil Food Web that feeds the plants growing in that soil.

kimmq is kimmsr

Beth, search this forum for "Tumbler" and you'll find a lot of threads about using and managing compost tumblers!

They are generally too small to heat up much, especially if you are adding small amounts over time. The initial fast decomposition phase that produce heat occurs in the first few days after adding fresh material to the pile. Thus a hot pile pretty much requires making one big pile (big enough to retain heat) with enough fresh material to PRODUCE heat. As long as you get compost you're fine, but your situation won't produce much heat.

Certainly you can. However, since they take a long time to decompose, I prefer to use pine needles as a mulch .

last wednesday i mowed overgrown grass and put all clippings in the compost bin. i was away for 3-4 days and today i checked the pile. It had compacted from how i had left it and was hot!

i tried to mix it but couldnt do much and the steam was coming out and i could smell amonia. I added some shreded newpaper and tried to mix it a bit.

Is it in ok state or should i do something about it. I have some cardboard but it is a bit hard and i cant break it up without making wet. should i add wet cardboard pieces ot leave it all as it is? The pile is wet.

Just my opinion: I would leave it alone until the hot phase is complete. Then you can turn, mix, fluff, add cardboard pieces or whatever you like. It will probably heat up again, repeat until it doesn't heat up anymore.

As for details it depends what you are trying to achieve: fastest composting or laziness or whatever. Again, just my experience, but the main thing to try to avoid is it getting too compacted, matted, and slimy, which can mainly be avoided by turning / 'fluffing.'

But don't worry about it too much. Experiment and see what works for you next time around, maybe by combining with other browns when making your pile, or maybe just by cutting and mulching 'in place' on your lawn.

kimmq wrote: Mix the material to be composted 1 part of a high Nitrogen source (grass clippings) to 3 parts of a high Carbon source (the cardboard) with just enough water to slightly moisten the material. Keep in mind that this mix will have limited nutritional value, the more material of different kinds you add to the mix the better the nutrient value of the finished compost.

In my limited time gardening, I have heard that ratio -- 3 parts brown to 1 part green -- pretty consistently. That's about what I have achieved this summer in my compost bin as I try to not add to much grass. But here's what I don't understand. In looking at various composting sites, again, some that advocate the 3 part brown:1 part green, and they also state that the carbon to nitrogen ratio should be 30:1. If grass is 20:1 and leaves are 60:1, then two bags of grass (20+20=40) and one bag of leaves (60) equals 100. Divide by the three parts and you get 33:1.

So shouldn't the magic ratio be 2 parts green to 1 part brown?

The ratios are just rough guidelines and will depend on specifics. Grass can differ depending on time of year (spring is 'richer' in nitrogen. Things like kitchen wastes will have lower carbon ratios. And sometimes these ratios may refer to dry weights. Don't overthink it and experiment until you find what works for you.

Each material has a different ratio, so it's hard to pick one magic formula. It's even more complicated than that because, well, is it based on weight or volume? Charts rarely specify. If weight, is it dry weight? Because grass has a lot of moisture and dry leaves very little.

That's why it's good to 'observe and adjust'. You can tell if a pile has too much of one or the other. But there's a range where it will compost just fine. Eventually you get the hang of what to put in. I do my grass/leaf mix by eye rather than strict measurement.

Thanks for the follow up.

Armoured wrote: The ratios are just rough guidelines and will depend on specifics.

Sure, which ratio should I use?

toxcrusadr wrote: You can tell if a pile has too much of one or the other. But there's a range where it will compost just fine.

How can I tell?

Honestly grass clippings (when made moist) will heat up and compost just fine. No recipe, no mixture needed. You can do the same with leafy green weeds or corn husks. Add browns if you wish.

You don't need a compost thermometer but it sure helps when you are trying to figure things out.

@Val: I think toxcrusadr was on the right track that the guidelines you saw (three to one?) were likely referring to volume, whereas most sources will talk about weight. And also very much right that e.g. grass will depend on how 'fresh' (how much moisture), etc. It's a lot like hay - first cutting will be very rich and usually more moist, later cuttings will be drier and have less nutrients (e.g. nitrogen). Also what kind of grass - so some might be just right straight off the mower. (I still think better to just mulch in place, but to each his own).

As for how you can tell: the ratios recommended are generally for hot composting, where it will heat up, and heat up again on subsequent turnings. If it gets too matted, smelly (like manure or ammonia), or wet and goopy (without adding water), you probably don't have enough browns. If it never heats up, it could be too much of either - e.g. cardboard on its own probably won't heat up, and dense wet kitchen scraps won't either - should be obvious which you have too little of.

Note that if you get the ratios 'wrong', it'll just be cold composting - which takes longer and more chance of weed seeds remaining in the compost. Opinions on this differ (as on everything else), but nothing wrong with cold composting if left long enough.

Spot on. I would add that the super hot, slimy and smelly pile (like a heap of fresh grass with no browns that smells like ammonia) is telling you that nitrogen is pouring out of it into the atmosphere. The browns help absorb N as they decompose, so it's captured in the compost and not wasted. Yes, virtually anything will become compost, but the rules of thumb we live by are intended to maximize the volume and quality of the product.

I actually have 2 compost piles. One is just leaves and the other is everything else. I have found leaves compost down just fine on there own and really make high quality compost. It also requires very little maintenance once you get it started. My other pile requires lots of turning and is composed of kitchen scraps, pulled weeds, cut grass and pruned bushes. I also have several large branches on the bottom of this pile to give it some drainage and wonder how long it will take these to break down.

I will add that I compost fresh grass clippings on the regular basis and have absolutely no troubles. It really is a simple recipe = grass + water and prob the easiest for the beginner.

I never end up with a " super hot, slimy and smelly pile (like a heap of fresh grass with no browns that smells like ammonia) ".

So I will say that if you or someone you know is or does end up with " super hot, slimy and smelly pile (like a heap of fresh grass with no browns that smells like ammonia) " it either doesn't have enuff grass or has too much water.

Mother Nature has done it this way (water + greens or water + browns or an ever so slight mix of each) since the beginning of time w/o measuring or weighing the mixture.

Not unlike using a mulching mower - is it?

Hint: the grass only needs to be damp not wet. Damp like it would be IF you cut the grass after a rainfall = no mixing or no added water. Just gather, pile, let sit.

So I ask - What could be easier?

NO Container. NO Tumbler, NO Weighing, NO Problem. Why complicate things?

I don't know man. I'm not refuting your experience. All I can say is I've had grass/leaves blends that got up to 170+F and smelled like ammonia for a couple days. Could have been an excess of wood ash (high pH) which would certainly push the equilibrium toward ammonia.

In any case, I think it's worth mentioning to new composters to watch out for the odor issue. If it never happens to them, great.

"So I will say that if you or someone you know is or does end up with " super hot, slimy and smelly pile (like a heap of fresh grass with no browns that smells like ammonia) " it either doesn't have enuff grass or has too much water."

-OR it is different grass. OR something else is different from your situation/experience/conditions.

"So I ask - What could be easier?"

Using that mulching mower and leaving it in place. Unless - again - something is different.

<"So I ask - What could be easier?"

Using that mulching mower and leaving it in place. Unless - again - something is different.>

IF you could get that mulch into the garden you would be on to something BIG. But I think that would be answered in one of the many "Lawn" forums here.

This topic is/was about

"newbie questions about composting"

Is it necessary (or helpful) to shred your leaves and garden/small branch clippings before putting them in the compost pile?

Thanks.

All organic matter stacked together will eventually compost down whether you shred it or not. Shredding it just gives it all a head start and increases the surface area to help things decay faster. My goal is for the piles I make up through the summer to be ready for use the next spring at planting time. Shredding everything up helps that to happen.

Drmbear,

Thanks.

It looks like I will have to get some sort of shredder for my leaves and garden/small branch materials. I hate to get a gas-powered machine, but the reviews of the electrics are quite negative.

You can use a lawnmower for leaves and very small branches - having a bagger is helpful too. If you put branches in a separate pile you will be surprised just how fast they do breakdown.

Leaves also make a very good mulch - shredding them helps to keep them from blowing around so easily.

I may be in the minority here but I just tear up my cardboard roughly by hand. I then put it into a 5 gallon bucket full of water, weigh the cardboard down with a couple of rocks and let it sit over night. I find leaves to be the perfect size to compost down. I will mow my lawn to pick up leaves but I don't go out of my way to break them down. I also tend to make a compost pile of just leaves that does really well on its own.