Hi Jalcon,

When I think of Japanese Maple I think of only one species: Acer palmatum.

In his book JAPANESE MAPLES, J.D. Vertrees answered your question better than I can:

During the peaceful Edo era (1603-1867) the zeal and enthusiasm for cultivating this beautiful plant reached its height. People not only went out into the wild to enjoy it, holding maple-viewing parties, but also brought it into their places as a garden plant or as a bonsai. New varieties and new forms were especially sought after and poetic names given them as cultivars. A record shows that as many as 200 cultivars existed in those days.

However, to our regret, many of them were lost or disappeared during the recent war years. As peace was restored both to the country and to the minds of the people, interest has revived and the popularity of the plant increased. Today our nurserymen are trying to select new cultivars to compensate for what we have lost, although it seems that the number of cultivars is still far from reaching that of the old days. Growers now propagate them on a larger scale, and with increasing popularity overseas, also ship them to other countries.

Hmm...very cool indeed. I need to get that book. However if only 200 cultivars existed back then, I would think that we have FAR exceeded that number today, not still trying to reach it..

BTW, the book I mentioned has a 1978 copyright.

Ah. That makes sense. Still though, you have to wonder what was lost 200 years ago. With no photographs, I guess the possibilities are endless...hmm.

in regard to 1 ...

i am thinking branch mutations.. propagated by grafting ... is a faster way to find new things ... rather than the process you describe ...

bloodgood was THOGHT to come true from seed ... it didnt.. doesnt ... so NEVER use that particular plant in any discussion such as this ... some suggest its so mixed up in the trade .... its hard to tell who has the right one ... i mean homeowners ...

ken

I understand that bloodgood didn't come from seed, so surely there must be the original somewhere..although it's probably well lost now. Just because people assume they have a true bloodgood but don't, doesn't mean the original isn't somewhere. So as far as dissectums, is that just a gentetic mutation branch or whatever of a regular palmatum?

New forms of Japanese maples are propagated both from seedling selection and from branch sports that exhibit some sort of unique growth feature.

'Bloodgood's history is a little obscure. It is thought to have been developed from seedlings of Acer palmatum f. atropurpureum that originated from Boskoop, Netherlands and exported to the US but the actual cultivar can be traced to the Bloodgood Nursery of Long Island, which gave it the cultivar name and put the variety into production before WWII.

Acer palmatums in the wild can demonstrate considerable variety in form and habit and leaf shape, so much so that the species has been broken down into 7 or so subgroups that reflect these specific characteristics. The dissectums are considered one of the subgroups and without doubt appeared naturally in that form at one time although now they are highly cultivated examples of the species.

Interesting stuff. Thanks. For some reason I can only find the following three subspecies of palmatum:

Three subspecies are recognised:[4][5]

• Acer palmatum subsp. palmatum. Leaves small, 4–7 cm wide, with five or seven lobes and double-serrate margins; seed wings 10–15 mm. Lower altitudes throughout central and southern Japan (not Hokkaido).
• Acer palmatum subsp. amoenum (Carrière) H.Hara. Leaves larger, 6–12 cm wide, with seven or nine lobes and single-serrate margins; seed wings 20–25 mm. Higher altitudes throughout Japan and South Korea.
• Acer palmatum subsp. matsumurae Koidz. Leaves larger, 6–12 cm wide, with seven (rarely five or nine) lobes and double-serrate margins; seed wings 15–25 mm. Higher altitudes throughout Japan.

A seedling of a dissectum will most LIKELY just look like a regular palmatum, right?

the subdivisions that you quoted are accurate.

now here's a challenge for you: go to that dissectum maple (your post on the maples forum) and look underneath. You may well find some volunteer seedlings. Tell us what they look like.

I assume your talking about the thread on the rather impressive dissectum I posted.

I would do as you suggested, but that's not even my house, haha.

It depends :-) If there are various types of JM's in the vicinity, cross pollination can occur and who knows what the seedlings will look like. However, if just seeds produced by a dissectum (without any cross pollination), chances are very good seedlings will have the highly dissected foliage of the parent.

Acer palmatum subgroups:
Group 1 - Palmatum
Group 2 - Amoenum
Group 3 - Matsumurae
Group 4 - Dissectum
Group 5 - Linearlobum
Group 6 - Dwarf
Group 7 - Not elsewhere listed (cultivars in this group do not fit into the above groupings and tend to be upward growing shrubs that have unusual leaf forms or colors)

These are subgroups recognized by most JM authorities and reflected in the texts written both by Vertrees and Van Gelderen.

BTW .. the reason they grow seedlings ... is probably for the understock ... to graft the cultivars onto ...

does bloodgood nursery still exist????

ken

http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9

the people at that forum seem to always be discussing their new cultivars and probably know the location of the mamas of the trees they introduced last decade.

How does maple reproduction work? For the sake of argument, if a lone maple grows in a 100'x100' box, will it ever reproduce seedlings? Or does it need another tree. Which one is "male" and which one is "female?

The sex life of Japanese maples is not exactly straight forward :-) Botanically, they are considered to be andromonoecious, meaning they produce both cosexual flowers as well as male flowers but no female flowers. So technically, the trees are self fertile but there are often other factors at work that sometimes reduce the ability of a single tree to pollinate itself ('selfing') in order to promote genetic diversity within the species.

To give a very simple answer to your question, yes, a single specimen can produce viable seeds once it reaches sexual maturity.

tree sex

Acer palmatum can and often does produce seed, even a a solitary specimen. But there's more to the story. In some trees the pistil or female flower part is minute and abortive. In this case the flower will not produce seed but can still make pollen.

Jalcon, I guarantee you if you go to your local park or arboretum that has a Japanese Maple collection you will see seedling volunteers. They will be everywhere, sometimes even weedy. The copious amounts of seed blows accross the road, comes up in the road bank, hedgerow, chainlink fence. Get the picture?