I am so not one of the greats in the kitchen layout, but that prep sink is odd.

What about frig at the beginning of the run where the stove is, stove where the frig is? Then you could use sink in the island and not have a prep sink. It would work with the ice-stone-water-stone-fire use.

I had debated that as well, but it posed a couple of problems:

1) it puts the fridge and food storage further away from the baking zone, so there'd be more traffic through the cooking zone

2) it would block the window on the left (it's only 17" from the wall)

3) I lose the 36" base cabinet beside the stove which I need for pots/pans/spices

My other plan was to have the coffee/tea/kettle/etc stored over by the prep sink as well

The other benefit of the prep sink is when we're both in the kitchen...i.e. if she's tidying up dishes, etc and I need a sink for cooking. Seems to happen reasonably often in our current kitchen.

Welcome to GW, feens81. Even with the windows (partly because of the windows), it looks as if you have a great space to remodel. Can you give us some more info--adjacent rooms so that we can imagine traffic patterns, and entry doors? Also, there is some good information on kitchen planning in the following links:
NKBA guidelines

New to Kitchens? Read me first.

I also am not one of the geniuses who reside here, but I would really be unhappy without clear landing space on one side of the fridge. The upper right next to the fridge seems a little odd, too, and their placement really breaks up a nice long counter run. I think Meris' suggestion of the fridge move -- with those two other large windows, it doesn't seem like the light loss will be too significant.

I may play around with moving the fridge in that case. I think I'd probably swap the counter to the left of it into a large pantry or do a stacked double oven there in that case. Tossing a couple more pics to help show the space (current floorplan and some pics of the setup):

I'm not a pro, but I did a quick copy & paste, using as much of your layout as possible. I moved the island slightly to the right--the long pink wall on the right is where the rail is, correct? In this plan, primary prep is farther away from the fridge, but still has a view. Landing space for the oven is the island. The super susan could be a 42" corner unit, then the 36" drawers could increase to 42" for pots and pans. Adding: I made the oven beside the fridge a wall oven, but could be double ovens, then drawers under a cooktop. I didn't take time to compare all the measurements--if you like the plan it can be fine-tuned. I'm sure you'll get some other ideas.

Took me awhile to find a corner unit pic.

I kept your prep sink where it was and swapped the refrigerator with the range. that gives you prep space on to the left of your prep sink and space on either side of your range and room for baking on top of the ovens. It also keeps the flow of refrigerator, prep, cooking and cleanup.

If you decide on the extra under-counter oven, it can be switched with the fridge, in the plan I posted. Also I put in a 30" hood, but it could be 36", with pullouts on each side, and the cabinet in the right corner would be an upper cabinet. The trash pullout can be shared between the two prep zones and clean-up, and checking the numbers, could be wider than I drew it.

I labeled the cabinets across from the DW as dish drawers, and the drawers to the left of the cooktop could be for pots/pans.

GW search--dishes in drawers

Oh, I did a plan but I was going to give you a U. I missed the fact that the "wall" on the right is actually an opening so my plan won't work. I had the fridge on the right wall. But my window wall was identical to what Mama Goose did. Well, back to the drawing board.

On your whole house layout, there is a window on the left wall just outside of the kitchen area. How many feet away from the corner is that window? Is there is enough length along that wall to do this, I'd suggest these tweaks to Mama Goose's plan:

I envision the lower cabinet to the left of the fridge being under that window on that long wall. Without dimensions, the placement may not be accurate.

With the fridge moved farther down that wall, you have space for a few more upper cabinets on that wall. So I removed all the uppers on the window wall (the reddish-brown squares are deletions). This will really open up those windows. You will be able to look out them from anywhere in your kitchen with them being blocked, partially or fully, but even more important, the light from those windows will be able to flood the room better and give you more natural light to work from.

I like the island turned because it will simply give you much wider aisles which will make the whole kitchen feel more spacious.

Here's my Plan B. I like it better.

Most of the other plans seem to have some zone-crossing going on. Sometimes that's impossible to avoid but I think you can avoid it with this plan. For function, you should really avoid that whenever possible.

I didn't draw it in but you could also use the counter and clean-up sink for prep as well if nobody is in the middle of cleaning up. That is probably actually your secondary prep area. The one marked secondary in the yellow circle would really be tertiary prep since it doesn't have sink access.

I love a DW on the end of a run if you're a clean-as-you-go cook. You can leave it open while prepping and it's easier to take a batch of stuff over and pop it all in without having to keep opening and closing the door. You would have the 36" drawers to left of the clean-up sink for dish storage. In this plan, you might want to add back in the wall cabinet over the DW location for more dish storage. Or you could have drawers on the back side of that island. I'd do the drawers in island instead of the upper but you could do either or both depending on your storage needs.

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I just need to comment on your original plan. I don't think it would take long for you to hate that fridge placement. And I do mean HATE!!!! It cuts up your counter space, blocks view and light from the windows, and is right in the middle of everything. If someone wants into the fridge while someone is prepping at that prep sink that is tight up to the fridge, the person prepping will often have to move to allow fridge access. And anyone coming into the kitchen for just a drink or snack will be crossing over all the work zones to get to the fridge. If you don't make any other change recommended by any of us, please move the fridge. You really couldn't have picked a more dysfunctional and aesthetically unpleasing location for it.

Also, in your original layout, most of the work zones are crowded to one side of the kitchen while the rest is a lot of counter space that will go little used because it serves no function. You won't be prepping there with the fridge in the way and no sink access. At most, it's a place to store counter top appliances. OK, could be a good place for the coffee but that's about it.

Also, you placed your prep sink so close to the cooktop that it will be extremely difficult for someone to be working at both at the same time without collisions which can be dangerous. Even worse is that the actual place where you'll spend most of your prep time is on the counter to the left of the prep sink. Even closer and directly in the space of the cook.

I just thought it might be helpful for you to understand why we are recommending big changes.

Many of us store our cooking oils in deep drawers or pull-outs. You should have plenty of drawer space to the left of your cooktop for something like this.

Seminole · More Info

or this

Storage Beyond the Norm! · More Info

Of course, you could keep the uppers. I have several large picture windows in my kitchen/dining space. I also thought I couldn't get by without my uppers and that I didn't need to remove them as I had plenty of windows. After numerous suggestions to remove them, we did. I am so happy I did it. It really opened up the views and allowed more light into the room. I don't miss the uppers at all. And my oils and seasonings fit in the drawers next to the range just fine. Actually, I find it easier to find them in the drawers so it's quicker access without having to move things out of the way to get to something. Of course, this is a judgment call that only you can make as it's your kitchen. Just giving you ideas to consider.

Here's a plan with the clean-up on the wall, and prep in the island, still with shared trash pullout, and the second oven under the counter, switched with the fridge. It's nice when the fridge is on the periphery, so that no one needs to enter the prep zones to access it.

I like the spaciousness of funkycamper's plan. With the open railing, though, I think the walkway on the right side of the island can be narrower--there is still shoulder room that wouldn't exist with a solid wall.

With the extra counter space over the second oven, and if you don't care about the symmetry, the cooktop can be moved toward the left wall, leaving room for a wider upper cabinet on the right side of the hood, or you could have an open shelf there for frequently used dishes. Drawers adjusted accordingly.

Depending on the style of your kitchen, you could have a plate rack across the window above the clean-up sink:

funkycamper, we're on the same wavelength again. Just as I hit submit on my first plan, I realized that there would be more symmetry with the trash beside the prep sink, so I did a quick edit--but not quick enough. ;)

Mama Goose, in general I like your plan and it's not my kitchen so I'll just share my reservations for consideration. Sometimes we have to plan for crossing of work zones in the least obtrusive way possible due to layout constraints. In this kitchen, that's not necessary. Where you have the prep sink in the above plan, the person prepping and the person cooking share aisle space. As we all know, a wide aisle will make that OK but I still don't think it's ideal. So, if it were my kitchen, I would still turn that island and have the prep sink directly opposite the fridge. It's more efficient as those two appliances are closer and there is definitely no issue with bum-bumping.

Maybe I lean a bit more function over form because I think the flow to the dining room is actually better with the island turned. It may not be the visual we're used to seeing but the work flow would be improved. Someone could come in from sitting in the dining room and start prepping without having to walk around the island.

Now, with all that said, in my own kitchen, the clean-up sink is in a peninsula sharing the aisle with the range (back-to-back). However, our aisle is 59" wide so we definitely have ample space to avoid bum-bumping. We were going to do 54" but after playing with the peninsula placement for awhile, prior to installing plumbing for sink/DW, we realized we actually preferred even more space there.

It looks like there is a lot of room to play with that island. I kinda wonder if an L-shape island would actually work here. Or a T-shape. It would give the frontage to the DR as the OP desires but also allow for the prep to be on the side I prefer. I'll try to play with that later. I just noticed the time and I need to run.

@feens81 - Could you give us clearer dimensions so we can determine how wide your aisles are? Mainly need that measurement to that window on the left wall as I previously requested.

Oh, we were x-posting again, Mama Goose. LOL, on the wavelength. Yeah, we seem to do that, don't we? Ha!

I feel like pieces of information are missing. How are you going to use the surrounding areas? I threw some labels in your floor plan as a guess. Are you removing that wall between the kitchen and the family room to combine the kitchen and the casual diing area?

Our first house was a trilevel (as they're called here in Oregon.) They're quite tricky. My advice: if you plan on living here for a while don't compromise. If you get an estimate to remove walls or replace walls with beams and it's beyond your budget, just wait and save. We put in an ikea kitchen in ours after living there six months and compromised by not moving walls around; it would have been a much better kitchen if we just would have slowed down and opened it all up like we wanted a year later or so.

I didn't see it mentioned above. Are you willing to totally wall in that side of the kitchen with the railing?

If not, I saw a cool example of folks replacing a railing in a similar situation with a built in bookshelf in the room below. Is this an option for you to create some more kitchen wall space?

Thank you funkycamper, for the explanation--I was thinking that if there is seating at the island, it would be nice to have the views through the windows.

feens81, I'm sorry, I missed that you want to close off the kitchen from the LR. Usually we see the opposite--plans to open up the kitchen to the living spaces. Using the island orientation in funkycamper's plan, after accommodating the DW door, you could have a wall of shallow pantries on the right side.

Ok here I took what I had shown before and just switched the fridge with the cabinet next to it to give you a bigger prep space to the right of the fridge. If you notice you would also have an upper next to both the oven and the range to store your spices, oils etc. Like you, I prefer to store mine in an upper cabinet. As you can see you go from fridge to prep to cook to cleanup.

At the risk of making myself look nuts, I just want to ask... have you considered combining spaces--just one seated dining area, just one living/family type of room? I'm tossing this idea out because in retrospect we had wished we would have combined the small breakfast nook and the small formal dining in our trilevel to create one big dining area plus island seating. Kind of like so. I think it's much more open and conducive to entertaining and gives you more kitchen wall space and just more space in general.

whoops. Ignore the old sink and range in the garage (?) :-)

benjesbride an interesting thought, but can't say one I'm fond of. We have some friends with a place that has a very similar layout to our house and really like how it functions...I know I wouldn't (nor would my wife) want to have the kitchen be the first thing you see when you walk in (where you placed the ovens/pantry is actually a railing, not a wall)

feens81 and cpartist, would it be feasible to put the prep sink (in cpartist's plan) on the left wall, leaving a wider prep area beside the cooktop? That little square between the sink and cooktop is bugging me. :[

Ideally, it's much more efficient to have your every day dish and utensil storage by the DW. I can typically unload my DW in 3-5 minutes with close-by storage. A few odds and ends take a few steps to put away. How many of those were washed causes the variance in time to unload.

I think it's just fine to put your extra serving pieces, good china or other dishware you might use when entertaining, glassware for bar service (wine, Pilsner, martini, margarita, etc.), and some of the serving utensils that you might not use regularly in a cabinet away from the DW. I do that myself.

But if my daily use stuff required that kind of walk and extra time, it would be quite annoying. I tend to be a bit OCD about efficiency. If it takes me on average 4 minutes a day to unload my DW, that's a half-hour per week, about 2 hours per month, about 24 hours a year. Yikes! If it took me ten minutes because of extra walking, that would be about 54 hours a year. Oh, even bigger Yikes!!!! It adds up. That's a work week plus overtime. Make it easier for yourself.

36" is the recommended minimum per NKBA guidelines for prep space between sink and cooktop. I agree it would be better on the left wall. It could be right up to the corner so you turn to use sink and then turn to prep area under the window to actually prep. This might be a situation where a small prep sink angled in in the corner might work well.

Here you go Mama

that last one by cpartist I think is pretty close to what I'd do now. Prep sink in the corner was something I was thinking about last night...just a matter of seeing what Ikea offers in terms of cabinets and making sure I don't lose important cabinet space that way. I'd probably do the ovens side-by-side in that layout though, more for aesthetics.

Thank you. I feel better now. :)

Happy to oblige Mama. :)

Feens, the only reason I separated the two ovens was so you could have the upper cabinet next to it, but I agree with you, might as well put them side by side.

Also just double check the space between your island and your refrigerator. You want to have from refrigerator door handle to countertop edge a minimum of 42"

Here's an updated design based on feedback, with a couple of notes/comments:

- prep sink will go in the corner...Ikea's software doesn't show me the corner sink cabinet but apparently they do have one

- I'm not sure what to do around the exhaust hood...ideally I'd have cabinets on both sides, but there's no room (around 6" on the right). I also tried doing an exhaust hood w/o cabinets above and to the side, and it ends up looking odd because of the 2 different sized windows. If I switched my 36" base cabinet to the left of the cooktop to a 30" I should be able to do a 12" wall cabinet on each side of the hood. However, the 36" is where I'm planning on putting my pots, pans, and spices, so I'd rather not lose it. Another option is to move the oven by the cooktop to the left, and have the cooktop in a 36" cabinet. But the issue I have there is my spices end up in the drawer below the cooktop, and heat is not so kind to spices.

If you make the 36" drawer base, 30"--can you do pullouts beside the hood, for spices, oils, etc?

Pull Out Spice Rack · More Info

Alternately, a base pullout on the right side of the cooktop, between the ovens? Would that work for spices? Or maybe you could keep the pan lids in the pullout, which would leave more room in the 30" cabinet for the pans.

Or this?

Since you'll have counter on both legs of the corner (and sink), I think it would work. The corner in which I do most of my prep has only 40" between sink and perpendicular counter edge on one leg, and 18" between range and the counter edge on the other leg. With the sink in the corner, are you cutting the countertop on the diagonal? You can mock up a prep area with painter's tape and see how it works.

What kind of cabinet are you using for the corner sink? What size? Will there be any room to move the 36" base toward the corner?

I have to see what Ikea's corner cabinet allows in terms of sink, but definitely planning on going with a round sink and no angled corner. I think it'd be easy enough to use as a prep sink in that config, and given the counter space on both sides of it I think that ends up with a good setup, as I could prep from either side with a sink nearby. Normally I'd avoid a corner sink, but I think for prep it's a bit different as it's not like you stand in front of it doing dishes.

I love my round corner prep sink. I use it way more often then my clean up sink, which basically just acts as a holding tank between DW fillings and emptyings. :)

Just keep in mind that you have to have access to the plumbing. I have mine at a peninsula corner with access on the other side. Circus Peanut appears to have a blind corner cabinet that you have to reach the plumbing through the door to the side. Buehl has the angled corner cabinet to make access easier. I imagine Viva99's is pretty hard to get to in that tiny door.

And yes, I spread out on both sides of my sink all the time. Pretty much every time, actually. I have 36" sink to stove. As far as moving things over for symmetry around the hood, my primary pot/pan drawers are 30." I find them to be a very good size. If you are concerned, you can mock it up with a cardboard box. I didn't actually have a box, and just marked out the interior size of my drawers with tape on my old counter and fit as much as I could within the rectangle.

Definitely measure out your pots/pans/lids to get an idea of how much space you really need. I have 1 large and 2 medium-sized Dutch ovens, 4 pots of varying sizes, a steamer insert and a double-boiler insert, 4 frying pans (from large to small sizes) and a griddle in a 30" cabinet. Lids go in the drawer at the bottom of the range. Plus a few pieces of my larger Tupperware-type items.

Of course, your cookware may nest differently and you may have more or less items, so measuring is important. If a few of my lesser used items didn't fit there, I would keep them elsewhere. I think it's really only necessary to have your most used items right at hand.

I think this should more or less do it. Though, I did drop in a counter-depth fridge to hit the 42" from handle to island requirement...so either we'll do that, or I'll have to go to a smaller base cabinet in the sink.

I think it looks pretty good. I didn't know IKEA sold any kind of corner sink cabinet. If not, you may have to do some changes to a regular cabinet to make that work. If you find you need to do that, post your issue here and I know you'll get advice from people who have done such things.

You will want to put the DW to the left of the clean-up sink (the left if you are facing the sink). This will allow someone to work there and fill/empty the DW without impeding on the space for the cooks.

I would really like to see you have more counter for prepping but, within your restrictions, this is probably the best you can do.

I wanted to do a quick follow-up and thank you. The kitchen is officially done! You can find my big reveal post here: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3692743/m=3/big-reveal-ikea-kitchen-reno

For a quick refresher, once we took possession of the house I realized there were some inset stairs in the way that ruined my original layout ideas, the follow-up discussion was here: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3355546/layout-help-part-2?n=44

A couple of before/after pics:

Kitchen · More Info

Kitchen · More Info