Refrigerator kicking off GFCI outlet
txmat
8 years ago
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Comments (15)
Debbi Branka
8 years agoRelated Discussions
outlet sharing breaker with counter top outlets
Comments (12)For a complete Kitchen remodel you will need to update the following at least to comply with the NEC 2011 electrical code. New kitchens use 7-9 circuits unlike old kitchens which may have only 2 circuits. If you install an Island that is where you get up to having 9 circuits. Hopefully you don't have an old small main service panel that doesn't have room for 7-9 new circuits, because then they will need to update that or add a subpanel as well to get more spaces. I personally had my tiny 100amp panel with only 20 slots updated to a completely new 200amp panel with 42 slots for circuits. From section 210 of the NEC 2011 referring to Kitchens: (1) Minimum of 2 -20amp circuits to supply small appliances on counter. These will need to be GFCI protected - usually one gfci is installed for each counter circuit and that protects the rest of the outlets on the counter for that circuit. (2) Refrigerator can share counter circuit or be on a separate circuit. It is not a good idea for the fridge to be on a GFCI circuit so often people separate the fridge in a remodel. (3) think about if you will have under counter CFL lights. if you want them to be direct wire or the linkable plug in type. If you are getting the plug in type, have an outlet installed in back of one of the cabinets so later the plug can go up in there. You might even want an outlet at very top wall above cabinets for rope light accent. (4) Lights must be on a separate circuit from counter circuit. Pretty much nothing else is allowed on the small appliance circuit except the fridge. (5) Gas range ignition (120v) outlet allowed on small appliance circuit, but in my area of California we usually put the gas range and hood on a separate circuit together. If you have an electric stove - that is a whole different problem b/c you need 40amp 240v sometimes - some people choose to have 240v outlet installed behind the stove at rough-in "in-case" they ever get a future electric stove or a dual type range that requires it. I didn't opt for this. I just got the normal outlet behind my gas range. (6)Under the sink you will need 2 more 20amp circuits (typically non-gfci protected). One is for the dishwasher and one is for the garbage disposer. They allow you to have one circuit if the combined rating of both appliances does not exceed a single 20 amp. However, because the electrician typically doesn't know what model DW or GD you are buying during wire rough-in, 2 separate 20amps are best to be run. My DW is almost 10amps max and my GD is 7 amps which is 17 already. So you see why it is better to have 2 separate circuits. Plus we may get a future Instant hot water dispenser (11 amps). Sine I have 2 circuits under the sink, I will plug that in to share with the GD to stay under 20amps. The DW will stay solo on the other one. (7) The island is minimum 2 -20amp circuits. I have one circuit supplying the outlets on the side of the island (gfci protected). I have a small sink in the island as well so under the sink, I have outlets on a separate circuit (not gfci) supplying the GD and the Wine chiller fridge. Summary my Kitchen remodel has 9 circuits: 1 - 15amp AFCI all lights in Kitchen & Dining room 2 - 20amp for Island (one required gfci, other for wine& GD) 1 - 20 amp for Refrigerator (not gfci) 1 - 20 amp for Range/Hood (not gfci) 2 - 20amp small appliances circuit on counters (gfci) 2 - 20amp under main sink for separate GD & DW (not gfci) I hope this helps. If you are in California don't forget title 24 and the need for CFL in the Kitchen. This is why I went with Fluorescent under cabinet, but used also Low voltage dimmable LED puck style in upper cabinets, and CFL 2-pin island pendants, and for main lights CFL 4-pin recessed lights (IC & AT rated). There are a lot lot more rules. I suggest buying Code check Electrical guide for a "mini" overview of the requirements. It has about 85% of what you need to NOT forget about in remodels. For example the Kitchen & Bath are two of the few places that do not presently require any circuits to be AFCI type. The rules are a little ambiguous. In one section it says the Dining room outlets must be on an AFCI circuit and in another section of the code it says that the Kitchen small appliance circuit can serve wall receptacles in the dining room. For confusing situations like this you have to call your local Electrical Inspector since they have final say. I know this problem first hand because I have an open style Kitchen/dining room area. Because the code 210.52B1 says that the small appliance circuit could serve exposed receptacles in the dining room, we thought we were good. But at rough-in the inspector said NO - dining room must be on a separate AFCI circuit per 210.12. We had to run a new circuit (AFCI breaker) for the dining room outlets. I actually don't understand why the code is ambiguous in this area. One part says Dining room must be AFCI, another part says the Kitchen small appliance circuit can serve the dining room receptacles. Can anyone shed light on this? In my case there is no wall between the dining room and the Kitchen and my counter runs straight down the wall from kitchen through the dining room, since we use the same base cabinets in the "dining area" for dishes/built in buffet so to speak....See MoreRefrigerator on ungrounded GFCI circuit
Comments (28)If the 'lord' has his own electrician say it is ok your landlord will probably try to sweep it under the rug and tell you it is fine. Where you go from there as to hiring your own electrician to inspect it or two for opinions and quotes for the landlord to repair correctly on his dime plus reimburse you for having to call ones that aren't doing favors. You might have to pay for your actual inspector somewhere in it. I would contact the inspector in that area for remodels or if there is one for rentals that person and pick their brain with what you know and try to get them to make a swing by. Print the codes covering this and have as many bases covered. Don't step into what might be a battle with a gun that isn't loaded or it will probably be taken from you. The more informed you are when you start in will usually define if the landlord tries to just have his buddy run in and say A-OK or get it repaired correctly and rather promptly. You might have to go to a library to copy a few pages from a few versions of the NEC or whatever other source that area uses. It could possibly end up with you needing to find a different person to give your hard earned money to and using the information you gathered to break your lease. I would not continue to put money in the landlords pocket if he tries to slither out of making safe repairs....See MoreRefrigerators and GFCI's
Comments (2)I cannot recall the last time i saw a refrigerator with a 2 prong cord. Garbage disposals and dish washers are not required to be on a GFCI circuit either. GFCIs are a great safety addition to 2 prong powered equipment that may be used around water, the presence of a ground on a 3 prong cord greatly reduces the need for a GFCI since the metal will be at essentially zero volts anyway. Water that comes in contact with defrost heater elements is a common cause of GFCI tripping in frost free refrigerators. The case of the refrigerator is still held at zero volts by the ground so safety is not really compromised. Newer GFCIs are supposed to be more resistant to nuisance tripping from small motor loads....See MoreGarage & All Baths on Same GFCI Circuit - Should I Change?
Comments (10)Thanks Spencer, you just gave me an idea... since the 1/2 BA butts up against the back wall of the garage I can just reroute the existing GFCI protected line that currently runs to the BA and connect it to a new single receptacle on the back wall of the garage... then switch that line to the LINE output side of the GFCI. This is easy to do because the drywall has been removed from the wall with the GFCI due to recent Earthquake strengthening. Since I need to keep power to the upstairs baths during this reno I can temporarily connect the new home run line to the existing garage GFCI since its only a couple of feet from the panel. It will get routed to the panel when the rest of the new circuits are added....See Moregeoffrey_b
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