1) I believe you did the right thing.

2) For mites you will need to treat every 4 day for 2 weeks as you did. You might use Neem oil but only if temperatures stay under 85 F

3) That would be a good idea

I would like to add that you need to get those trees outside in the sun before they die. hate to be harsh but its true. Also being outside there are natural beneficial insects that will help with pest problems. not that you wont get pests but lady bugs, lacewings they all eat bad bugs.

Die? why would they die? they are right by the window? I get that they are happier outside and in the ground, since, well, they are trees after all. But why would they die inside? I thought you could have potted meyer lemon in apartments? Not that I don't want to take them out, but I need to be home for a whole week to do that since I have to give them progressive shade and sun by daily increment of 2 hours, apparently. If it wasn't for that, they'd be on the damn deck already.

What ever fits your schedule. give them morning sun or evening sun for 2-5 hours. After about 2 weeks you can leave them out all day.

Alright, so I took my trees out on the deck in the shadiest spot I had (still wasn't full shade, but in the angle of the house, so not full sun. Today is slightly overcast.

One of them lost ALL its leaves in less than an hour. Another hour to go to make it 2 hours. Hopefully the other one is not going to be bare as well by the time I bring them back in. Sigh

This is really discouraging.

Last spring I lost 90% of my leaves on my Meyer lemon. This year I will loose about half. I left my citrus trees outside under glass. It took me 4 weeks to remove one layer of window and then the last layer of windows one piece of every 2 days to allow my trees to adapt from double coverage to single coverage total sun. I also think your trees could use a little bigger pot, about double the volume and use 5-1-1 mix. Otherwise your setup looks good. Hang in there your tree will.

Oh, dear. I see that you probably still have the trees in their original pots. Think of it this way: the space needed for the limbs and foliage up top should equal the space below for the roots. Those tiny little pots they're in a too small. You must replant, in a much bigger container. Also, the level at which the pot is set (in the inner container) should be up higher. Usually I put some rocks or pebbles for drainage under the inner pot, giving the stem some height. Stem and roots that are always in the shade invite mites.

Spread your roots! If you pull the pot you'll see that those trees roots have probably begun to strange each other. Do some untangling, it's okay to be a little rough, and breaks will form new roots in time. Definitely get bigger pots.

Next, yes, Neem oil is a great idea. I use regular olive oil with garlic and hot Tabasco sauce mixed in. I spray the plant at least once a week to prevent all insects. Never had a problem since them.

Not sure about wiping the plant with alcohol. I would have used an oil, even mayonnaise, to clean the mites off. You never going to kill their eggs, which drop off into the soil and keep hatching, so keep spraying.

I've even given my plants a bath - warm water with a tiny amount of dawn in it. Just remember to rinse afterwards.

"Steve, Z (6Bground,5B roof) Cincy,OH

Last spring I lost 90% of my leaves on my Meyer lemon. This year I will loose about half."

Steve, so loosing all the leaves is a common thing for meyer lemon trees? How long does it take for them to grow back?

I was planning on repotting them as soon as they were acclimated to being outside, to avoid shocking them too much, but then again all the leaves are already gone. Should I still wait until they are full time out for the summer to repot?

I was thinking of filling the pots you see on the picture to just below the embossed line. How much soil would you think I need to buy? Accounting for the soil already in there, I was thinking maybe approximately 4 more gallons per planter, would you say it sounds about right?

Yep, sounds good - But - moving the trees when they are in full foliage in summer is not perfect. Doing it now would be much more beneficial.

Alright, here we go,

"You need to remove the green tapes strangling the main stem of your plants. Citrus are strapped in like that in order to protect them from damage during shipping and handling, but should removed right away."

Check. Just did that. I didn't know I had to remove those tapes.

"how long have you had them?"

I've had them for a little less than 2 months.

"Oh, dear. I see that you probably still have the trees in their original pots. "

"But - moving the trees when they are in full foliage in summer is not perfect. Doing it now would be much more beneficial."

Yes, they are still in their original pots. I called the company that sold them to me and they said they would not repot them for at least 3 months to allow them to get accustomed to their new environment. Then I had a few people on these boards agree and others tell me to re pot right away. It's been very contradictory and confusing :(

At 2 hours a day increments, it's going to take me about two weeks for them to be out all day. Does that sound ok or would you re-pot now, even though today is literally the first time they've been out for 2 hours (I've just brought them back inside) ?

"Spread your roots! If you pull the pot you'll see that those trees roots have probably begun to strange each other. Do some untangling, it's okay to be a little rough, and breaks will form new roots in time. "

I'll do that. Do I get rid of all the original soil or keep it?

Sorry for all the questions. It sure is a steep learning curve :)

Atheen

My trees started replacing there leave in about a month and grew well. The stems are green and produce food for the plant so it will not die. It is cool enough at this time of the year to re-pot. Let the tree readjust to the shock before increasing the sunlight. do not bare root it. If the roots are wrapping the root ball surface you will need to trim those roots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MSS6l1PjQ4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzNZEH0NOEU

This should help you transplant safely. 2 extreme cases. You will not have to prune the tops because your trees have already lost there heavy foliage. USE 5-1-1 mix not cactus mix in bagds

"Let the tree readjust to the shock before increasing the sunlight. "

Does that mean I have to stop talking then outside if I re-pot them?

You can continue to take them out 2 days after the transplant.

" The stems are green and produce food for the plant so it will not die."

Alright. Not so good news. Just got back from yet another $70 citrus expedition at Lowes. My husband, thinking he was helping, patiently removed all the little stems that had held the fallen leaves on the branches of my bare meyer lemon tree. So I have no idea how that poor tree is going to get enough energy to survive and make new leaves, now. It's disheartening.

I am trying to figure out what is more urgent, re-potting or outside exposure. At the beginning of this post (and while both my trees still had leaves), mksmth zone 6b Tulsa Oklahoma(6b) told me that I needed to get my trees outside asap before they died. So now I just don't know what I'm supposed to do first, get them more light or repot them.

Because I'm a total moron, I thought that I could make 5 1 1 by adding perlite and bark to Miracle grow citrus mix, but now after reading the last comments from Steve I realize I have 4 bags of MG citrus mix in my garage that I should not use to do my mix, and that the orchid bark I bought is too big, sigh. Also, the guy at Lowes talked me into buying a bag of Vermiculite in addition to the perlite and orchid bark telling me it made for a great draining soil, and after coming home and checking vermiculite up on this forum everyone pretty much says I should throw holy water on it, then burn it for good mesure and never ever use it in my mix.

I feel completely defeated right now. It's like I can't do anything right with these trees. My poor tree looks so miserable, I feel like crying right now.

Just keep them in their pots and outside in the sun. My kumquat tree sat bare for 2 months then took off. One important fact, only one person should take care of the tree. 2 or more people can discuss and make decisions but there should be 1 designated care taker.

I've just taken them out on the deck again for their second 2h outing of the season. It's raining a little, but I figured they'd get some good light anyway. I hope I did the right thing.

I've also ordered a container of Grow More Citrus growers blend Fertilizer. Not sure when I'm supposed to use that with everything else going on with getting them outside and re-potting them, but at least I'll have it for when I need it.

I'm going to return the miracle grow cactus/palm/citrus blend and the Vermiculite to Lowes today. They don't have a lot of soil options. It's either going to be Miracle Grow Potting Mix, or Sta Green Potting Soil. Home Depot is on my crap-list since I opened two bags of soil from them successively last year, to find some kind of larvae in one, and a colony of ants that invaded my garage overnight in the second. Never again.

I did, however, find a supplier that carries Farfard 52 potting mix. The downside is that I would have to buy 2.8 cu feet of it. It is my understanding that you can pretty much use it straight out of the bag for citrus after adding 1 volume of perlite for 5 volumes of Farfard.

"mksmth zone 6b Tulsa Oklahoma(6b)

This is my mix. My trees have been in it for a couple years and have been doing great.
Fafard 52 and coarse perlite in a ratio of 5 to 1. "

So my question is, can I use it straight out of the bag for my other houseplants as well? If the answer is yes, I can go through that bag without a problem, since all my plants are slated for a re-potting anyway.

As always, thank you all for your advice and guidance. Any imput is very much appreciated.

Yes go ahead and get the farfard mix and stay away from the miracle grow for citrus. You can get the perlite at Lowes. You can also get any potting soil and mix it with the farfard for your other plants. Last if you keep the extra soil dry it will store for years.

The ants and the larva are not home depots doing, they just sell the stuff.

Atheen. I need to appoligize for my comment about them dying. My point should have been that is takes a lot of work to keep a citrus happy in our home environments without them suffering greatly. Most of us have them inside for 3-4 months and that can do a number on them. I have only been keeping citrus for about 5 years so my I am by far an expert but I have learned a ton here and seen a lot of conflicting information too

sorry to see that one lost it leaves but that is far from a death sentence. With citrus and for that matter all plants the number 1 key to keeping them happy is taking care of the roots. I would repot them now but I would be careful to not disturb the roots much. Just put them in the new container and tease the sides a little.

Fafard is a really good mix on its own. when I was using it i did add a little more perlite. I stopped using it because it got too expensive. It a good product for all your container plants. you would probably need close to a bag to fill the new pots so you would have some for later. Now I use a product that I can find at lowes called Hapi-gro landscapers mix, you can find it by the mulches if your store were to have it. Its basically pine park fines that we often talk about screening pink bark to get. I do add perlite to roughly a 2 or 3 to 1 ratio. honestly i have mixed so much i just pour it in until it looks right.

you can make Miracle gro a decent mix by adding more perlite. Dave in NOVA does it and he has no issues with it. I have done in a pinch with no issues.

Also you dont need to be too regimented with the transitioning process. What I have done before is put plants under an awning or porch and over a week or two pulled slightly closer to the sun.

Dont worry about the stems. The leaf buds where the new growth will come from are on the branch and thats what you need to keep intact.

Im sorry we have confused you. I think we can all agree that the best approach at this time is to repot and work at getting them into more sun.

mike

Steve and Mike,

I went ahead and ordered the Farfard. It's going to take about a week for me to get it by ground shipping, so I think it'll work just fine, with the trees already having a little over a week outside before I re-pot them. I'm graduating then to 3 hours of morning semi shade outside tomorrow. I'm also waiting on the fertilizer, sometimes next week.

The Farfard itself isn't that expensive, but they kill you with the shipping costs, it's totally outrageous.

I'm glad the stems issue won't be the death of my tree. It's funny how I thought that "gardening" was going to be relaxing, and then the Meyer trees make their entrance in my life, bringing mayhem and drama along with them :)

Quick question, would it be a good idea to pour a couple inches of perlite at the bottom of my pots when I re-pot?

Atheen. Youll get there with these trees. Once they get happy they generally stay that way. You want to hear about gardening stress. I went out to my veggie garden to see that a gopher had pulled 5 of my tomato plants down its little tunnel and eaten them. Im about to go kung fu on a gopher.

No need to add the perlite to the bottom. Infact that is a common myth that adding a drainage layer is good. What really happens is all the smaller particles in you mix end up fill the voids and negating any help that the layer was intended to do.

Mike

Hi guys! Just posting an update on my trees. I have been gradually leaving them out on the shaded side of the deck, the last couple of days for 5 or 6 hours at a time, typically from 8.30ish in the morning until 3ish in the afternoon. The bare tree didn't regrow more leaves (or anything else) yet, but there was no additional leaf fall on the second tree.

I should receive my farfard 52 mix this friday, and we'll talk about repotting then.

Question: when do you think they'll be ready to stay out all day, if only on the shaded side of the deck they've been hanging on so far at first?

Atheen

PS: Mike, I want updates on that gopher!!! Images of Caddyshack are going through my mind right now, lol

LOL! i really feel like Carl. I cant catch that sucker for anything. Ive been setting traps and nothing. Good thing is it hasnt eaten anything else.....yet.

I would go ahead and move them to max sun light after you repot. Just dont mess with the root a lot and water very well the first time and dont let them dry out too much at first. Dont give up on the bare one. go ahead and repot it too.

Mike

Carl... erm, sorry, I meant Mike ;)

I'm sorry, I meant about when to leave them out all day and night. Right now I still take them back inside around 3pm, so they only stay out about 6 hours a day. They have never been in full sun, yet. I was careful to keep them in the shade.

Are you saying that I can repot them, begin keeping them out all day and night and move them to full sun all day all at once?

Just making sure I understand you properly, it seems like a lot of changes at once :)

Atheen

yep you could do that now. The biggest worry is when you repot. If the roots are messed with a lot it will shock the tree and moving to full sun wouldnt be ideal. If your are gentle and just tease them out a little and then re pot to a bigger container then it should be just fine. That is what I do when I pot up to a bigger container. I just repotted 3 trees from 5 gallon to 10. They went straight out into the full sun and are flushing new growth right now.

The key lime in the middle hadnt been potted up yet in this photo. the others had been and were in pots the same size as the key lime. Left is washington naval and right is meyer. I just lift them, tease the roots out a bit and put in new pot and fill the gap. Soak the container to remove air gaps and all straight out to full sun. Its similar to planting a tree you bought at the store and planted in the yard.

Alrighty, I've left them out all day today, and they will spend the night out as well for the first time. Tomorrow morning, I'll move them to a full sun spot, and hope for the best :) They got a big summer thunderstorm this afternoon, so I hope that's not going to make them too wet.

I should receive my farfard mix tomorrow or Saturday morning, and we'll talk re-potting then.

Also, I just received the citrus fertilizer I ordered, Citrus Grower Blend from Grow More, which from what I read is pretty much crack on a stick for Meyer lemon trees. I guess the right thing to do is to wait for the trees to be re-potted shortly before I use it? I'm also very confused as to how much I'm supposed to use. I read the label but it didn't help much. Anyone familiar with the product?

Atheen

PS: Mike, those trees look beautiful!

Yes, I've used it before. It works well, but be careful, it's very strong. I burned one of my potted trees by not measuring accurately, more like I eyeballed the amount and paid the price. But when it's measured correctly, it works well. It looks like it's a powder that is mixed with water like Miracle Grow, but it's not. It's meant to be mixed into the top layer of soil and watered in. Very good for greening up after a long cool winter.

I've never found it necessary to add perlite to any Fafard Heavyweight mix.....just saying.

Barb, I was under the impression you should either spray the leaves with it or put 1/4 of a Tbsp per quart of water. Are you saying you are using this in its powder state?

Rhizo, which Farfard heavyweight mixes are you referring to?

On that subject, I did receive my Farfard, only these idiots sent me a custom mix instead of the 52 I was promised. I sent a pic of the label on the bag to the guys at Sungro, and they said that this mix was not as coarse and had a bit more peat moss, and that I should add about 15pct of coarse perlite to it to get the coarseness of and drainage of the 52. Bummer. Don't you love it when you spend money to get the good stuff and get pwned...

On the good news front, my trees are doing well, I think. There are new buds on the one with leaves, and tons of new leaves poking out from the bare one. So that spot on my deck seems to agree with them.

We've been having a lot of thunderstorms the last couple of days, and I admit it makes me nervous on the "over water" front. How do you guys deal with that issue?

Repotting is planned for this week, as soon as I get my hands on some coarse perlite... sigh.

PS: Anyone else used that growmore citrus grower's blend, please chime in! :)

Nothing to add, only, I am enjoying the conversation please keep up the updates!

As a fellow sufferer of Beginner's Citrus Panic (tm) I would have had kittens if my lime tree dropped its leaves.

Thank you Limequeen! Yeah it's a pretty informative post since I seem to run head first into every single newbee issue known to meyer lemons, LOL. I'm a bit worried about my trees today, because it's going to rain pretty much all week. I posted a separate thread HERE, since it's a pretty specific problem and I figured answers might help other meyer lemon owners that browse the forums and have the same issue. I'll keep this thread updated on how the trees go, though, and I'll post updates again as soon as I repot them. Thank you for following and stopping by :)

PS: I'm SO going to steal the "Beginner's Citrus Panic (tm)" thing.

Atheen. Looks like that one is flushing some new growth. Is that the one that was completely defoliated?

Yes, thats the one! I was so excited to see new leaves poking everywhere! And the other one is budding like crazy, so it should get blooming pretty soon, if it doesn't drown first, lol :)

Awesome! I had no doubt it would start to leaf out again. In general citrus really aren't all that hard to take care of.

Atheen, yes that's what I'm saying. I thought like you, that I'd mix it in water then apply it. But no, that's not what the label says. I think that's why I burned my tree with it. And I mixed it too strong also.

Here's what the label says. Notice the first few paragraphs on the soil application instructions.

"Soil Application: For correction of nutrient deficiencies: Apply in a manner to uniformly distribute the powder over the surface of the soil beneath the drip line of the leaves and thoroughly water into the soil.

For the best results, build a basin under the drip line, apply Citrus Grower Blend to the soil in the basin. Apply 2 oz.. (4 tbsp.) of Citrus Grower Blend per inch of tree trunk diameter once a month or as needed to correct nutrient deficiencies that may occur during the growing season.

Maintenance Rate: Two (2) applications are recommended per year, once in the Fall and once in Spring.

Foliar Application: If desirable, Citrus Grower Blend can be dissolved in water and applied to the foliage during the flush of new growth, usually in April and September. Use 1 tbsp. per gallon of water.

Citrus Grower Blend may be used on ornamental shrubs and trees and fruit, nut and vines."

It seems counter intuitive since it's a powder, but yeah, it's supposed to go right onto the soil and then watered in.

And yes, foliar feeding is fine too.

Barb,

"For the best results, build a basin under the drip line, apply Citrus Grower Blend to the soil in the basin. Apply 2 oz.. (4 tbsp.) of Citrus Grower Blend per inch of tree trunk diameter once a month or as needed to correct nutrient deficiencies that may occur during the growing season."

Can't really build a basin with a container tree, and it would seem logical there would be a lot less diffusion than if it was planted in full soil, so I suppose even the single inch dose of 4Tbsp would be too powerful. How much did you end up mixing with the top soil for your tree and how big is your container?

Thanks,

Atheen

Yeah, 4 Tbsp plus a pinch is what I used and burned the plant. The container is 20" diameter, volume is about a 7-10 gallon. I think the next time I used only 1 Tbsp, leveled. That worked better. But you might start with a teaspoon just to be safe. There are 3 teaspoons in a tablespoon. And if you used the foliar option, some of it does drip down into the soil also.

A tsp it is. That should be enough, if I use it in its dry form.

I might still dilute it in water, I haven't decided. I know you're right in what you said it read on the container, but Larrysorchids where I bought it instructed very clearly to dissolve a Tbsp per gallon of water every 3 weeks to a month for citrus trees from March to September, HERE. Also, and most importantly, my husband and I are trying to get pregnant and the warning on the container talks about birth defects and all sorts of horrors, so I don't want to have to handle it or inhale it too much if I can avoid it. Diluting it in water seems safer.

Which brings me to my next questions for y'all.

Question 1:

How much water do you use when you water your trees? To be clear, I'm talking about watering container trees, while they are staying outside. I had been using about a quart and a half, but my trees were still in their nursery planters. Now that I'm upgrading them to bigger 16x14 planters, I'm wondering how much water I'm supposed to use.

Question 2:

How do you personally fertilize, how much and how often

Question 3:

Do I really have to wait for the soil to be dry before I repot? I wanted to get this done this week end, but it's been so wet here lately, it might take a while for my soil to dry out.

As usual, thanks to all the ones chiming in :)

Atheen

PS: Here are shots I took this morning. The new leaves and buds are kicking @ss!

1. I really don't know. The containers are all outside all year because of where I live. I leave about 2" or so from the top of the pot to the soil when I pot them up. Then I just fill this all the way up when I water. I always use a hose with a soft shower end. If I've let them dry a bit too much, I fill it up twice. I make sure the water flows out of the drainage holes. It usually count seconds when I water (practice from when I worked at a nursery), they take about 20-30 seconds to fill. They're about your size planters, some older ones are in larger containers.

2.In my container trees I use Osmocote Plus every 5-6 months, and supplement with Foliage Pro about once a month. I now only use the Citrus Growers blend on my in-ground trees, I also use EB Stone's Citrus food on the in-ground trees, alternately.

3. I don't think so. I don't pay much attention to the soil moisture when I re-pot, except to make sure they're not bone dry. I take off a lot of the old soil from the roots anyway, so it doesn't matter much to me.

Your plant looks great! You're doing good!

Atheen, that is awesome! Flowers and new leaf growth. you have done great with these. Good job!

Alright guys, time to mix it up. Literally :)

My trees are doing good right now,

Forecast for this week is thunderstorms today and tomorrow, then hot and sunny for the rest of the week...

Soooo, here we go. This is what I have to work with. I need help figuring the proportions.

1. Farfard Custom Mix. It's quite a bit finer than the 52 they were supposed to send, but oh well, what's done is done and this is what I have.

To help with the coarseness, I bought coarse perlite:

and finally, bark:

So, there you are, Meyer lemon gurus. How much of what would you add to that Farfard mix?

As always, thanks for the help and guidance :)

Atheen

I created a twin of this last post in the container forum, HERE since it's really what it's about, but I'll still post the results here to keep the ongoing drama series on the tribulations of my meyer lemons alive :)

If you get conflicting feedback between the 2 forums you need to stick with the citrus forum advice.

At this point, I'll take any feedback. Not gotten anything so far :(

C'mon guys, anyone?

sorry i didnt noticed you had a question. Honesty I would just add 1 part of perlite to 5 parts of the Fafard. skip the bark. However if you want to use the bark add it the same as the perlite. just follow the 5.1.1 formula.

Thank you Mike! I'm just a little confused (I know, shocker, right?). You first said to add one part of perlite to 5 Parts of the Farfard, which is fine by me. But then you said to use the 5 1 1 formula. Isn't the 5 1 1 formula 5x bark, 1x perlite and 1x Farfard? It goes from being primarily soil with a little perlite to primarily bark with a little soil, so I'm a little unsure as to what you are advising me to do and which one is the best for my trees in your book.

I'm sorry I'm such a n00b...

Atheen

i was saying that I personally would just use the Farfard and perlite. But if you want to use the bark you bought go ahead and follow the 5.1.1

asking what is best for your trees opens a hole new can of worms. Especially when it comes to soil. Ask that in the container forum and youll get 1000 different answers and probably start a heated debate. I got to run but me I would use Fafard with extra perlite and call it good because I have and it worked for me.

Thank you Mike. I wasn't sure I could use the Farfard mix with just perlite since it's not the 52 they sent, but a much finer one with more peat moss than bark. How about Garden lime? I've read you're supposed to add some to your soil mixes.

Is this one ok?

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Espoma-6-75-lb-Garden-Lime-100508617/203192761/