Just realized my drawing doesn't come out very well, here is another attempt

With a possible layout I am considering. And below is amother option although I do not like the corner cabinets where pantry use to be on the below option.

Bumping this up for you. Hope the kitchen gurus weigh in.

I'm not a pro or kitchen guru, but I have a couple of thoughts. Because
of cooking prep flow (fridge-->sink-->stove), it would be more
functional to switch the cooktop and sink. But I wouldn't want to give
up the sink under the window, even though one ususally spends more time
cooking, sauteing, and stirring, than scraping plates and loading a DW.
You might consider giving up the upper cabs to the right of the window, and
making the window wider. Skip the corner cabinet and
continue that run to the sink wall. While you're prepping between sink and stove,
you'll have a better view to the left side. You can have drawers in the island for dish storage.

In
your plan, I'd switch the fridge and wall oven. Even though it puts the
fridge on the other side of the island from the sink, it puts it closer
to the living spaces, so that it's easier for someone coming from that
direction to access. I'd make the aisle between the cooktop and island
wider, which will provide easier access to the fridge, if it's switched
with the oven.

I can understand taking out the corner
pantry to open up the space--that corner would make a nice
MW/snack/breakfast/lunch prep area, and with the fridge on the other
corner, it will be more convenient to that run. I like the corner, and
might include a small sink there--if you're going to have the stub wall
anyway, you might as well have cabinets. If you don't put a sink on the corner run, you might put one on the fridge side of the island--I'd put it on the top right corner, but it looks as if you have a stool there, in the elevation pic.

Finally, if you'd like a
wider opening between the kitchen and dining room, consider cutting
back the wall on the right side to the depth of the upper cabinet. You
can make it a pony wall, and extend the counter material over it. That
will leave more shoulder room for anyone walking through, and will make
it feel more spacious. Of course, that means you see more of the kitchen
from the DR, specifically the side of the fridge or oven cabinet, and
you can't have a door there. I have a narrow opening between my kitchen
and an adjacent room, so I cut back the upper part of the wall:

I like both of the possible layouts. In the second one, to get better cooking flow (as mama goose ref'd above) could you separate the fridge from the wall oven and utilize the opposite corner? So that you would have fridge to sink (walking past the island) to stove to oven. This would give you the opportunity to have cabinets on one side of the fridge on that wall and on the left side of the oven on that wall. OR you could have a pantry on the wall oven side with a little scrap of cabinet there for anything hot that needed to be set down.

Also, see if your carpenter can create a pocket between wall studs so that you can push the fridge further back. I did that (the electrical was hung on a wall stud facing sidways) and it really helped with some depth issues and a doorway. HOWEVER, this was done after the inspector left, so I'm not sure if this would be a code issue. But I love my electrician and he would never do anything dangerous, so I went with it.

Here's a quick view to illustrate the changes I suggested, with a small sink in the corner group, or on the island:

Cazadora's suggestion (I think, but maybe without the cabinet on the stub wall.) This gives landing space on both sides of the ovens, and although I removed it, you could still have a prep sink in the island:

Ignore my appliance holding tank on the left. ;)

Here's a version with the island turned, made deeper, and less wide, with a prep sink,dish drawers, and no seating. There is a shared 12" trash pullout beside the sink. In the next version I made a quick change to an L with seating, but only one base cab with dish drawers. If you took away the stool behind the sink you could have the other base cabinet, opening toward the fridge wall.

Wow...what a great forum...thanks cazadora. On the other side of the fridge wall is stairs to my basement so I don't think I can push the fridge back. I did think of that but my contractor says no. It's funny how the fridge is causing me all my issues / decision problems with the layout. I would love to get a counter depth fridge but my dh will have a fit if I tell him I want a new fridge with the redesign (my fridge is only 1 yr old).

Mama goose - thank you so much for taking the time to look at my kitchen...I love the idea of the pony wall and like the sink over in that corner cabinet. Also love the bigger window idea but I have a feeling that is not in our budget...but I'll definitely ask. If I moved the stove to other wall where sink is that might solve my venting issue and needing soffit above cabinet But then I would have to figure out cost of plumbing. Wheels are turning...thanks again.

Does anyone have a thought on the island extending past my existing perimeter wall. It will block the flow from front to back of the house, having to go around island to get to back yard...Is this an issue?. I wanted it bigger to add additional chair now I am wondering if I should get rid of chairs all together and have more storage. Has anyone gone from island with seating to none and regret it?

Mother goose. ..i missed your mock up of cazadora suggestion in my last post...are you both saying to put the fridge over to where the existing pantry is now....I was thinking it might be too far from the rest of kitchen but if you don't think so I like that option too...uggghhh... how am I ever going to decide what to do.

Oops, I was playing with layouts while you (and funkycamper :) were typing. I like the idea of putting the fridge in the area where the old pantry is/was--it's more convenient for grazers/snackers, or someone coming from the kitchen table. But that puts it too far out of your work triangle/zone, IMO.

I'd definitely switch it with the wall oven, since the fridge is deeper. That would give someone coming from the DR a little more elbow room, and since the oven will be used far less than the fridge, it's out of the way.

Is your kitchen table currently as drawn in the first plan? If there's sufficient space to maneuver around it now, and you remove the pantry, it looks OK. If you could create a new plan (using the new layout--not the elevation), but including the kitchen table and back door area, it might be easier to compare traffic pattern.

In the meantime, here's how my last idea might look, so that probably won't work. With the table so close, do you need seats at the island? I'd opt for drawers instead. Maybe you could keep a stool tucked in a corner, to be pulled in if you have someone keeping you company in the kitchen?

Well, since you're thinking about switching the cooktop and sink, here's
something along that line. It will be easier to have a vented hood, so
you can put the MW near the fridge, in the snack center.

Other than the island there is no landing space for the fridge. If you don't switch it with the oven, then landing space would be on the counter over the DW. You could put the oven all the way on the left, move the fridge as far right as possible, and have landing space between them, but then you're stuck with the narrow opening between the kitchen and DR.

Thinking about it a little more...how can I put the cooktop there with vented hood if there is a window...don't think that will work. I do like that Mockup thou. I keep missing your drawings ...I really like the two island options you gave me too...got to see if I have aisle space for those options.

I put a window on each side of the hood (white areas). If you need to keep the current window, you'd need to check local building/safety codes, to find out if a range/cooktop can be installed under a window. I've read that in some areas it's acceptable if the window is inoperable (not sure if that's the correct term.)

Stoves in front of windows--pics.

Stoves between windows.

Here's a different direction. First, I'm posting a map of potential positions for the fridge, and how each would work with a sink, and be accessed by different areas of the house.

The next pic is of the fridge moved to the corner by the kitchen table. In that location, it has good landing space, and seems convenient to all areas except the formal DR--if someone in the DR needed milk, ketchup, etc., he'd have to walk a few extra steps, but how often does that happen? If you put the fridge there, I'd recommend moving the island toward the top wall, since prep is on the same side as the fridge. I moved the window more to the left, but it is the same size.

In this plan I moved the hallway door (at top) more to the left, and put the clean-up sink and DW in that corner. If the door can't be moved, it's still possible to have clean-up there, but it will mean less counter space on the right side--DW/sink/trash pullout. The oven would stay in the same location. You can cut the wall back to widen the DR door, and have either a tall pantry (or pantries, if door can't be moved), or a snack center beside the oven. There are no long stretches of counter, but with so many short walls and traffic paths, I don't think we can do better.

Here's a Gardenweb link on recessing a fridge:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2474249/how-do-you-modify-wall-to-recess-standard-depth-fridge

On a more philosophical note...in a large kitchen, the temptation is to spread everything around to utilize all of that fantastic space. But, it's actually easier to cook if all of the main appliances are really close together, but with adequate counter space between. I know this from experience, unfortunately.

If you go with the idea of an island prep sink, make sure it's large enough to actually cook with. I had one of the small ones like you see in 1000's of decorating photos and hated it with the passion of a thousand suns. Imagine trying to pour your pasta water out into one of those small sinks to get my drift here.

I'm so glad you posted this thread and got some great advice! I have the exact same layout and of course the same issues you're facing. My ref is actually placed correctly and I almost switched it with the DO.

Anyway I am pushing my island down to have a clear pathway between ref and sink... I'm also moving my sink and Dw to the left so I can have more counter space for prep, adding a prep sink to the same location you are... I left enough space between the island and family room that there won't be any traffic issue. Good luck ! You got some great advice here from mama and. Cazadora

Cazadora, mama, what size would you recommend for the prep sink for a 23" sink base?

Hmmm, as large as your kitchen designer/contractor/you can get away with? 20 inches width, maybe (perhaps doable with a little modification to the base). But I want to stress that I'm actually speaking of a true cooking sink. A place where you will need to draw water, pour water, place a colander and peel a potato or two. Think about the hand movements when peeling a vegetable -- you actually need more room than you think...or a really good aim :)

adja, I'd go as big as the cabinet allows. My second sink is an inexpensive Franke, top-mounted, although I think it can be an undermount. Outside is 19w x 17d--inside 17w x 12d. It would be sufficient for any of the processes cazadora mentioned. When the main sink was down during the remodel, I used it for everything (except soaking my oven shelves ;) and believe me, it was worth its weight in gold. Small sink, old progress pic.

***I forgot to say--the actual depth of the sink is 8". That's important, especially if you are draining boiling water from pasta.***

Thanks ladies! I'll have to start shopping for all these details tonight if I want everything ready by the time we get the cabinets.., Thanks for your input!!

Just for fun, and because you voiced concerns about traffic to the back door, I did a couple of quick and messy layouts, switching the eating and working areas. You've mentioned the question of moving plumbing--these might not even be a consideration, but maybe you can use something from one of them.

1.) Fridge convenient for everyone, but 5.5' to landing space above DW. Only one sink, but nice prep areas. Tight U-shaped working area could be opened up by extra window and window/pass-through to family room. 102" theoretically would accommodate 36" corner susans and a 30" range, but no wiggle room. You could have an undercounter oven (pros on the site don't usually recommend them), or a wall oven on the top wall. Or a small sink on the top wall if you choose a snack area. The fridge and wall oven could be switched, if that works better--but more steps to landing space. I like the u.c.oven, and all storage/pretty dish hutch on the top wall. In both plans that's a pony wall behind the open door to the backyard.

Adja ..just curious if we have the same layout and you are moving the island closer to family room, how big is your kitchen table? Do you have a sunroom bump out that gives you enough room? are you planning to have seating at your island?

Mama goose. ..thanks for the extra layouts...my kitchen table area looks like this...not sure if you can tell but it has skylights and a sloped roof in the area wheree the windows are (starting where the half wall ends) so to put the kitchen in that area woupdate not be feasible with my budget).

Lovely space--you are lucky to have so much light! It helps to see the bigger picture. My suggestion would be to do a mock-up using large boxes, to see if an island would fit in the space you have, and still leave enough room for traffic to the back door.

Give me a couple hrs and I'll post some pics of my space. The dfrce is that you have windows by your table and I have bay windows and a double doors to the deck