I have a new Bosch 800 series, SHV68TL, and I love it! I've had 4 Kitchenaids, and one Kenmore before this. The Kenmore was the worst of the lot, would never get one ever again. The kitchenaids were okay, but got progressively worse (the first one was from 1987), to the point that we installed one in our vacation home in 2012 and it is VERY noisy! When we renovated our primary home last fall, the sales people all recommended either Bosch or Miele, since they can be installed fully flush with the surrounding cabinetry. I was hesitant at first, and had to get used to loading it, but I am astounded at how well it cleans! Baked on food, pots/pans, glasses, everything comes out sparkling. Just be aware that you have to use rinse-aid, and set the clean cycle to auto and sani-rinse to get it to dry the dishes well. I think most dishwashers have been engineered to meet energy requirements, so the cycle time is very long, and the drying isn't what it used to be. I considered the Miele, but it seemed very similar and cost a lot more. Friends love it though.

Thanks, Diana! I'm glad to hear that you are happy with your Bosch DW. We are already in the habit of using a rinse aid and running the water hot at the sink before turning on the DW (a tip from our long ago serviceman) so the only learning curve will be how to load it.

It's also good to hear that your friends are happy with their Miele. It's astounding how much these machines cost, though.

We've owned 3 Kenmores and one KA. KA was good, 2 Kenmores were great (the first one - used portable DW - and the last one). The 2nd Kenmore we owned was the worst DW ever.

My GC and wife own a panel-ready Thermador (bought from local appliance outlet store), which is essentially a Bosch from what our appliance sales rep told us. Our GC really likes his DW. Says it's really quiet. Haven't a clue about Thermador's reliability. Hmm, maybe I should add that to the list. The outlet store has really good prices on panel-ready Thermador DWs.

We also have a Bosch 800 series dishwasher. It is a little bit of a challenge to load thick bowls, but we do it every day. It cleans extremely well (much better than any other dishwasher I've ever owned) and is unbelieveably quiet. We have had no problem with things no getting dry (generally we run the DW at night, and unload it the next afternoon). FWIW, we didn't get a Miele primarily because we didn't want to spend the extra $$$ on a Miele.

I have a Kenmore Elite that is a re-badged Bosch. It's really quiet and cleans MOST things. Sometimes I have to rewash some silverware. It has not ever required servicing in about 7-8 years since installed. We are going to remodel and I will either get a Miele or another Bosch. What would make me look at the Miele instead is that there is a bit of wasted space with the silverware baskets instead of the tray (which Bosch now offers). Mine has fold down tines on both levels so you can configure it for larger bowls or pans. But sometimes I just feel like there isn't enough room.

I've had Kenmore, Maytag, KA and Miele. To be honest, I don't really recall what any of them were like, they were all okay. Then we got a Miele, and I remember thinking wow! Quiet, clean dishes always, 3rd rack so much better than a basket. Love it. Ours is 12 years old and has never needed service. It was temporarily moved during a renovation, then re-installed without issue. We will replace it when we renovate only because it is 12 years old. Appliance salesman told me that the new Miele's require you to use dishwasher salt, which really improves the cleaning. Who knew? I've never used my salt dispenser.

sherri1058, the salt dispenser is not actually a dispenser. It's part of an onboard water softener. Salt is used for the same function in the dishwasher as in a whole-house water softening system ... refreshing the ion-exchange resin in the softener mechanism by flushing salt water through it. The solution then goes out the drain. Salt water never touches the dishware.

Thanks, sjhockeyfan, good to hear that you haven't had any issues with drying. You expressed exactly our hesitation about purchasing a Miele. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the $$$. Not that I doubt its quality but it's still a lot of money.

divotdiva, I didn't know that some of the Kenmores were rebadged Bosch DWs! I thought they were all KAs.

Nice to hear your MIele has been so reliable, sherri. That helps offset the higher upfront price.

dadoes, our water is not hard at all. We never get hard water stains and have no problem getting soap to suds up, unlike how it was when I was growing up in the Midwest. Anyhoo, do you know if we'd still have to use the salt dispenser?

Thanks dadoes. I know that, Should have called it a reservoir, but was on my way out the door and dispenser was the only word I could find!!

lisa_a,

the water softener can usually be disabled if not needed for local conditions.

Regards to Kenmore products ... Sears sources from many different manufacturers. The first three digits of the model number (before the period xxx.xxxxxxxx) indicates the manufacturer. Decoding info can be found via online searches. The full model number can typically be found only ON the item's model/serial tag. Catalog and online numbers usually aren't the full model number.

We had a KA dishwasher. The heated-dry cycle caused to paint to peel off our cabinets. That was when the vent was in front. Now the vent is on the side which I expect would make the problem even worse. This goes for all models in the Whirlpool family as well as most oter brands. Moreover, our old dishwasher did not have a water softener. After the phosphate was disallowed in dishwasher detergent, the machine and our dishes got all gunked up with calcium deposits. Changing dishwasher detergent to finish from cascade and adding lemi-shine rinse helped but not enough.

When the KA died, we replaced it with a Bosch dishwasher with a 3rd rack and water softener. I thought the third rack was a silly gimmick but it's been great for long cooking utensils and little things that fall through normal racks. At first I thought the Bosch racks were designed in weird way that would not hold our dishes well (we have a lot of very large plastic cups) but that turned out to be the reverse. It takes a little bit more to figure out how to load it (for example small bowls fit one top and on the bottom in front but not in back), but now that we have figured it out, it fits our dishes better than the old KA. It does not have heated dry so it doesn't damage cabinets. Everything but plastics dries anyway. Plastics did not dry in our heated KA dishwasher either. We do need to pre-rinse. We had a Miele dishwasher when we lived in Europe and we had to pre-rinse with that one too. Some people say that they do not need to prerinse. That may depend on how soon you run your dishwasher after loading it. The longer food sits, the harder it is to get it off the dishes.

We did not buy the Miele because of price, - the Bosch was much less expensive. However, the high end Mieles look pretty cool in terms of the rack arrangements. They are a little bit more flexible. With the Bosch, we can remove a rack completely, raise/lower the middle rack or fold down some of the tines. Miele has more flexibility. The only down side was that the 3rd rack Mieles (or at least some of them) do not come with a cutlery basket. Miele expects you to use the third rack for silverware. The Bosch comes with a cutlery basket. You can (optionally) use the third rack for silverware with the Bosch to save space but I find it inconvenient. I like to carry the cutlery basket over to the kitchen drawers to unload silverware. It saves a lot of time. I would not want a dishwasher without one. I think a cutlery basket is an optional accessory for Mieles with 3rd racks, but I would check.

If you get a Bosch (or probably any brand), think about putting it on a surge protector. My friend had an unprotected Bosch (new generation) and they had a power surge. Since the power surge, it sporadically gives weird error messages which makes it hard to diagnose. This could probably happen to any brand.

I seem to be the lone Bosch naysayer here... I had 2 Bosch DWs in previous places -- one was the lowest end model and then the next was the highest end model (sorry, can't remember the actual model #s). Both of the Boschs I had needed repairs before the first year was out - the low-end model needed to have the circuit board replaced, but then we moved from that apartment, so I'm not sure what the lifespan was after that. The high-end model had a series of issues (weird errors, stopped working for no apparent reason, etc.), and we finally got rid of it b/c it seemed like a lemon. Even after 2 repair visits, it would never work properly. After both of those, we finally got a Miele and love it.

The irony of all of this is that I originally bought the Boschs b/c I didn't want to spend the $ for the Miele, but I spent WAY more than if I had just bitten the bullet and gone for Miele originally.

Thanks, dadoes, for answering my question. I know the trick about figuring out who makes which Kenmore but I forgot to look at this closely when we were at Sears, dang it. I'll have to go back to the store.

Thanks, houztongirl, for posting your experiences and the tip about the power surge protector. DH has talked about adding one for the whole house (on the circuit board, I think) but I'll ask him again about his plans.

bphansen, sorry to hear you had bad experiences with Bosch but I'm glad to hear you're happy with the Miele. How long have you had your Miele?

We've lived in our house for 21 yrs and have had 2 DWs already - much too short a life span for each, IMO. Our oven lasted 19 yrs (I've been without an oven for 2 years, waiting to remodel), our gas cook top and pop-up downdraft were still working and went to Habitat ReStore. Our '89 MW is just beginning to show its age. Our first fridge was 19 yrs and still working when we replaced it. I'm glad for the increased energy efficient but I wish it didn't come at the expense of longevity. Sigh.

Wow, I had no idea that DW life spans were that short on average. Good to know, thanks. Guess we beat the odds with our previous DWs.

I have a Miele Dimension Plus. I have had it for two years. It is incredibly quiet. I NEVER rinse anything, and everything comes out clean, including baked on casserole dishes and pots and pans. It has its own built-in water heater. You can even hook it up to a cold water line. You do NOT have to run (waste) water at the faucet with a Miele. They are also built to last 20 years, unlike American built dishwashers.

Thanks for posting your experience with a Miele, ottlane. We nearly bought one but in the end, went with a Bosch since it fit our needs the best.

Lisa_a - sorry so late, yes the Kenmore I bought several years back, I think it's Kenmore Elite, was a Bosch in disguise. I compared the model #s with Bosch and then just looked at the insides of the unit and compared it to the Bosch. Both had the stainless steel tubs, filter in floor same place, same racks, etc. I've never had it serviced since installed, maybe 8 years now? I just recently started using the small folding racks on the upper tier. Don't know why I didn't before. I chose the model I had also based on the dBA as it was one of the quieter models available at the time. Even though not supposed to need to, I still quickly rinse all dishes going into the DW except cups/glasses and silverware (unless it's gunky). The only things that don't always come out clean sometimes are pots/pans with really heavy residue, like when you have those scorched bits in the pan.

I think you'll be pleased with the Bosch. We are looking at a Miele this time around but if I wasn't willing to spend the Miele $$, I would definitely get another Bosch. Yale Appliances has written a good review on DWs and both these manufacturers were recommended.

Thanks, divotdiva! Even though we've already purchased our DW, I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

Good luck buying your DW!

I have a Kenmore Elite similar to KitchenAid. Best dishwasher I have had. Now I would say the new Maytag takes the place of our Elites-strongest motor-best wash system. Thats what I would get if I had to buy one. Hope you like the Bosch and you don't have all the problems I read here about gunk build up in/on the filter. A relative of mine has one(Bosch) now about a year old and she likes it OK now. For the first few months it smelled and she rinses dishes so it wasn't food. Then a tech with Bosch told her to use powder Cascade instead of the pacs because the pacs are too much soap. She did that and changed to the Auto cycle and the smell went away.

Thanks, sparky! I have already read up on the threads about dishwasher detergents so I shouldn't run into that issue. Fingers crossed!

I didn't look at Maytag because they don't offer a panel ready version. I think I forgot to mention that in this thread.

mine is a Kenmore Elite, I just checked, model 63017303401 (I'm sure no longer made) Bosch-rebadge. I rarely have to clean the filter at all - if I even remember to do so - there is nothing in it. I'm wondering if the gunk build up is also caused by hardness/softness of water in combination with the soap.

lisa after a month or two will you come back and let us know how you're enjoying the bosch? I will be choosing between the bosch and the miele when it's time to choose.

I will do my best to remember, cpartist. If I forget, post a reminder, please.

divotdiva, the Bosch we purchased has a salt water dispenser but we don't need it. Our water is "very soft" per our city's website. I'm sure that plus today's detergents play a part in how well a DW cleans. I will admit to not being keen about cleaning the filter out - it's a job that will fall to me, for sure - but given all the other pluses, I can live with it. Glad to hear you rarely have to clean yours out!

btw, I looked at the panel ready Kenmore Elite. I'm pretty sure it's a KA, not a Bosch. I was never able to figure out, via Sears salespeople or Sears website, the DW's depth sans panel to know whether it would fit cab depth or stick out a bit. That was one big reason why I decided against it. What's the point of hiding the DW behind a panel if the whole unit sits proud of the cabs? Wouldn't be an issue if I had time to make that run slightly deeper but I don't.

Lisa, this thread was helpful for me! We are buying appliances next week and I don't have the budget for a Meile. Which Bosch model did you end up with?

Lisa, I am a bit ashamed to admit I probably don't get to the filter often, but it doesn't seem to matter because there is nothing in it. A couple of times I have fished out a stray spaghetti noodle. No smell so it doesn't dawn on me to clean it weekly. I do a quick rinse of all dishes before they go in though. Enjoy!

Love your honesty, divotdiva (are you a golfer?). That's something I'd own up to. = )

chelsiyarger, so glad this thread helped you! We opted for the Bosch SHV8PT53UC (Benchmark series) over the Bosch SHV68TL3UC model because it had a bit more flexibility - more folding tines - and another extra feature or two that I can't recall at the moment (been a long day/long week). There's normally a big price difference between the two but we were fortunate to get sale pricing, plus Bosch is offering a $200 rebate on that Benchmark model. We ended up paying less than $200 more, which is still a lot of money but a whole lot better than the normal $600 or thereabouts price difference. I don't think we would have spent $600 more for the folding tines and other extras. In fact, I know we wouldn't have! The SHV68TL3UC is also a very nice machine. A few posters above have similar models and have been quite happy with it.

It's also why, if we end up with the SHV68TL3UC, we'll be happy, too. There's a chance that the model we ordered won't ship from the plant in time to make our needed delivery date (we do not want to pay $$ to have the plumber come back out to install the DW). If so, we'll buy one of the SHV68TL3UC that the dealer has in stock.

HDP, huge score!

Lisa, thanks for the info! We are looking to spend between 700-1000 and should be able to get the 800 series for that. I hope you love your when it comes!

We have a kenmore elite dishwasher-works great -but already had to replace plastic parts on upper rack -roller assembly and various clips and pins-Amazon-saw new model-even more plasticy-

Building mountain home and Miele is best for us -though a money stretch there diamond series has a reidel crystal (wine glass) cycle!

We had kitchen aid in old home 25 years and still running but they don't make them like before. And there architech's series is still inferior to Miele reviews service and feel.

We were able to travel to a Miele center and were very impressed. Have to win the lottery now!

No kidding, huge score HDP!

The SHV68TL3UC will definitely fall in your price range, chelsiyarger.

Trove, ouch! So sorry to hear you've had such bad luck with the Kenmore. And yeah, they don't make machines like they used to. The emphasis is on energy efficiency not longevity.

We have a bosch 800 series and love it. As long as you keep rinse aid in it the dishes come out dry. It cleans everything (I'm talking 3 day dried on baby food style - my wife doesn't rinse!!!!!!). Its so quiet that if it didn't have the red light indicator you wouldn't know it was running. We love it. Would have never considered the Miele due to the price, but I am enjoying the bosch enough that it doesn't matter. The third rack is a nice aspect as well.

Btw... I was able to significantly talk Lowes down on the price (like $250 down). All you have to do is press them. Right now Bosch is also offering a rebate. So you could get the nicer of the two bosch 800 series for under $1000.

Just noticed the filter discussion.... I've cleaned ours 2 times in a year. It's never dirty.

lisa_a: Can you provide me with an update of your experience with your Bosch DW? Thanks

Did you see my recent discussion here on the appliance forum, underwhelmed by Bosch DW - cross post? I also cross-posted on the kitchen forum, underwhelmed by Bosch DW - cross post

I'm having a few problems but I hope to get them resolved and to be happy with my machine as much as everyone else is.

I posted on a Facebook cooking group and had a large number of replies. I polled about KA, Bosch and Miele. Overwhelmingly the Bosch was bashed. Folks said it didn't hold up, needed more repairs and were generally displeased. I went ahead an bought another Miele. Mine is/was 13+ yrs old. The pump is failing requiring multiple restarts per load. I'm done, time for a replacement. The repair costs are too high. I would also look at a high quality KA. Our daughter has the Architect series and it's been great since 2009.

I've had a Miele for 10 years - no problems other than it etches my glassware which I did a lot of research on when it happened right from the start and there was no solution other than using the China and Crystal cycle any time I had any glassware in it. I also seem to be the only person who has had that problem. All in all though since I can only use one cycle and would never put any good glassware in it, it was far overpriced for the features I use. I have a rather basic 12 year old Bosch at another house and really like it - works great, no problems. Both are very quiet which I love. I recently moved out of the MIele house and will need to replace my 15 year old dishwasher there that sounds like a jet engine. I will get a Bosch.

My I insert a good word here for Fisher & Paykel dish drawers? My first set lasted 14 years. My new set is just as satisfactory and just as quiet. Oh, the *convenience* of that top drawer! If you don't have a large family, consider F & P drawers. ($1200, installed. Three-year warranty.)

I do not plan to put custom panels on a dishwasher again. Too expensive for an appliance that *will* need replacing.

I have had a builder grade Kenmore for 18 years, that has never needed a service call or repair of any kind and that still cleans very well. I run it every 2 days loaded to the max. I will hate when it finally has to be replaced because it really seems, on the whole, nothing lasts very long anymore.

Thank you all for the updates!!