I have Muslin in my great room, hall, foyer and a bedroom. My wood floors are stained Provincial. It does not read red at all. The only issues I had with it showing red were in my basement (poor light) and in the bedroom when it had pink carpet, which was being replaced. But, I do see why you would worry about the undertone, especially if your floors are redder.

For me, in my basement the alternative was BM White Down. It is lighter than Muslin, but worked really well for me with a copper colored carpet and in rooms that varied from no light to a wall of sliding doors.

I used BM White Dove trim with both. HTH

SW Grecian Ivory?

Thanks for feedback. I'm hoping to find a BM color since that is carried by our local family owned paint store. What I don't really understand is how to work with undertones? I've read Muslin has very subtle pink/peach undertones. So would orangish floors w/ dark wood trim bring that out? Or perhaps not so much since they are close on the color wheel (I think?) Trying to figure out if I should just go for it. Also, I'd love to know more about how to compare Elmira White to Muslin. I do like the Elmira, just not sure it's quite warm enough for our low light winters.

Look up the hex values for each color. That will help. A color that has a higher red value will read more pink.

Muslin hex vlaues = red 226, green 215, blue 194; red = 82.65%; yellow = 88.63%; blue = 76%

Elmira White: red 220, green 212, blue 196; red = 81.6%; yellow = 86.3%; blue =76.9%

This one might do the trick, BM Inner Balance

Red 206, green 200, blue 180

red 73.7%; yellow 80.78%, blue 70.5%

take a look at BM Clay Beige...Tibbrix suggested this color for our family room. We went with it and its perfect! We're continuing on and now painting all the hallways, adjoining kitchen and foyer this color. Its a light light beige that looks like coffeee with cream or light choc milkshake. Does not read yellow or red in our house. We have red oak floors, its looks great with everything....

BM Clay Beige

I have BM Clay Beige in the kitchen, dining area and living room of my condo. It is a very nice color with no undertones. I love it!

Thanks so much! Clay Beige looks a tad darker than I wanted to go, though I suppose I could lighten. Where do you look up the Hex numbers? I've tried, but not found a simple place. Inner Balance def reads more green that I wanted to go. How do Pale Almond, Palace White, or Elephant Tusk compare to Muslin?

Also Natural Cream?

BM Manchester Tan. It reads like linen on the walls and has the slightest green undertone, but it's pretty undetectable.

Oh yes! Natural Cream!

You can get the hex values at encycolorpedia.com

You asked about undertones given slt orange tone floor. The opposite of orange on the color wheel is blue. A warm BM neutral which has a slight blue undertone is BM Pale Oak. It's a Candice Olson favorite.

sigh. Still struggling with the art of embedding BM colors.

http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/paint-color/paleoak

Ok, that's very helpful but I'm still trying to understand how the undertones work. With orange tone/warm floor, what undertones do I want to avoid?

Are you trying to bring attention to the orange floor?

No, I'm trying to anticipate the effect of the floor on the wall color. I want something that is neutral and clean, with some warmth. I've steered away from "yellows" but want to make sure something doesn't end up looking pinky or peachy on the walls. Right now, I'm liking Muslin but know that it has some pink/peach to it. So just trying to anticipate how much that will be on the walls. I also like Elmira White, but don't really know its undertones. I appreciate the help!

specific undertones aren't necessarily an issue in all rooms... have you tried samples? if not, get a sample of muslin since you like it, try it and see where to go from there... just because you are attracted to greiges that might have a sl pinky/taupey cast to them doesn't necessarily mean they will look pinkish on your walls...

trying to read hex values isn't necessarily that helpful since it's hard for lots of people to know how the other colors in the color play into it... and, it's very hard to know how a particular color- esp it's subtle nuances- will look in any specific room without giving it a try.

Here is a true genius on color and design. I've linked an old post on wood floors and wall color, but it's a good read. If you search for her by name, plus "undertones" or "paints that go well with orangey floors", or "pinky beige", you'll get her take on undertones as well as others. They are hard to understand as well as to "see" for many.

http://www.mariakillam.com/the-colour-of-wood-vs-wall-colour-how-important-is-it-really/

Kyle is another great blogger on colors and in this linked article she talks about orangey toned floors.

http://www.kylieminteriors.ca/the-best-paint-colours-to-go-with-oak-wood/

Thanks for the input. I'm probably over-worrying the Muslin. I do like it, reading as a warm neutral that's not too yellow. I've worked with Kylie and she is terrific! I'll look at the articles. Right now, the house colors are very earthy-brown, in the mid dark range. I know part of me just wants a total change, but it's hard for me to visualize it as this is our first home, and therefore first real opportunity to chose colors! Thanks all!

That's a great comfort, basically I don't have to worry too much about the floors b/c I'm definitely not trying to match them (they are a yellow orange maple). There is darker wood trim but again I'm not trying to match, and it reads more neutral to me. It's an unfortunate dark oak (I have dreams of getting up a restored woodwork to better match original). The good thing is I don't think it will fight much. I'm hoping the warm neutral of muslin will also not create too huge a contrast since it's not the most amazing woodwork in the world. Thanks for all the help!

Try a sample of BM Jute... we really love it..no pink undertones!

I always love reading your posts fun colors. You helped me pick exterior trim colors from an old post last year. :)

OP, Order a board sample of Muslin maybe? or, make your own?

Again, it's been a great color for me and I really like it.

Wow, that is one of the most helpful things I've read about colors!! Thank you for sharing, @Lori. I'm just now digging around your website. Is there a way to plug in info to understand how to coordinate colors, when choosing for different rooms of the home? And it's great to know about Muslin, that sreedesq likes it and why it reads more "orange." Thanks so much! What an amazing resource!

Ah, so ignore my ignorant hex stuff! Very interesting. I am so interested in the paint color thing and want to get more educated.

Are you going to go with the Muslin?

Interesting reads as always. With orangey floors some designers do suggest staying away from additional pink/red hues on walls so as not to envelope the space. A complimentary neutral can play well and opposite paint undertones tend to play nice if chosen well. No one suggests painting walls blue; the discussion was undertones in paints. Paint boards are our friends in such circumstances.

Is there a way to plug in info to understand how to coordinate colors, when choosing for different rooms of the home?

A color wheel is the best tool for understanding color relationships. Color relationships are all about hue families - and that's what color wheels are made of. So, once you know the hue family of any paint color or surface or fabric, etc., you can plot it on a color wheel and develop schemes from there.

However, not just any color wheel will do. You have to be sure to use the right color wheel. I go over my favorites and how to apply them as well as my not so favorite color wheels in this video presentation on YouTube.

Color relationships is where the subjectivity of eyeballing undertones either epic fails or gets lucky and skates by. If the undertone is guessed incorrectly, pulling together a harmonious color scheme is going to be difficult.

Finding color harmony is the juncture where one would have to be able to deconstruct and explain the finer details of color attributes. For example is there a difference between a red undertone and a pink undertone - how is it different, how and why would it matter, does it matter at all? What's the difference between a "gray undertone" and toned, chromatic grays? How are "white undertones" different from tints? How and where can you plot or place colors with "gray/white undertones" within a 3-dimensional color space - like the Munsell color tree, or a color sphere? And etc.

Development of color relationships is often when the bigger more complex color questions are asked and an approach based on subjective undertones starts to get super murky and confusing and unravel in general.

Muslin is drying on the poster board. I'll get it up in the room and see how it feels. I'm not sure our floors are a dominant feature since we have dark oak trim. I'll be sure to let you know where we land! Then on to the dining room and extremely troubling kitchen.

I was deciding between Muslin & Edgecomb gray for a bathroom. In my house which has orangey toned woods ie. Ceiling & walls of Log home the Muslin looked a bit yellow whereas the Edgecomb appears greyish in some light and beige in others. (Pale beige you might say) Elmira was a bit too light and Edgecomb is next to it on strip. Try this one if Muslin doesn't work out for you.

I'm in the exact same situation. What color did you decide on?

I veered pretty far from this conversation in the end. I went with BM Bleeker Beige, which has enough depth, but not too dark to feel like a cave. I really like it...it's greish brownish beige w/o being tan. https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/color-overview/find-your-color/color/hc-80/bleeker-beige?color=HC-80

The next room will be Manchester Tan, which is another I really like. Slightly lighter than the Bleeker Beige.

This is how Bleeker Beige looks in our living room, which does not get a ton of natural light and has dark wood trim and lighter warm wood floors.

Traditional Living Room · More Info

What a great thread. I came here considering clay beige wondering if it had too much grey in it, but got swept away in the discussions! I too have orange-y cabinets and lighter orange-y wood floors. The muslin discussions seemed good until I saw it had a LRV of 67. THe bleeker beige looks good too, but too dark for me. I am looking for a clean beige neutral around 60-61. I want it to have at least a little contrast against white (china white) woodwork. I want it to harmonize with the orange-y cabinets (no grey or yellow tones). And there is very little natural light reaching that room, so it has to be as bright as possible yet still have that contrast against white.

I currently have Manchester Tan on the walls and I dislike it and it needs to be repainted. It is almost okay for LRV (it's 62), but it casts green and grey and looks dirty all the time.

Any suggestions? I wish I could search by LRV value on BM website.

I wish I could search by LRV value on BM website.

Every paint brand should have hue/value/chroma/LRV notations for all of their colors in a sortable and searchable table. But at least none of them were dumb enough to go down the undertones rat hole and categorize their colors that way.

If you know how, you can search by LRV on easyrgb.com but it's not an easy thing to do. It's easier to search on L* which is lightness. LRV and Lightness are not the same thing. HOWEVER, they are related and for what you are looking for searching on Lightness would work.

I am looking for a clean beige neutral around 60-61.

Basically Bleeker Beige but lighter.

Casual Khaki Behr N300-3

Sand Beach SW 7529

Dulce de Leche BM CSP-250

Water Chestnut Glidden A1807

Lrv is is on every paint chip on the BM website

Yep, many brands are now including LRV for each individual color.

However, what WendyB was looking for was a way to search paint colors by LRV - like put them in order from darkest to lightest so you could see all the paint colors with an LRV of 50 together, etc.

Yes, that would be helpful. I tried that recommended website, and it didn't seem to work for that purpose. I take screen shots off the web and compare that way. Let me ask you, what exactly is the LRV a measurement of? If you compare a yellow and a gra with the same LRV, for example, it's hard to see the similarity..

Let me ask you, what exactly is the LRV a measurement of?

Luminance. It measures how much light a color reflects and conversely how much it absorbs. LRV is a spectral data point that runs on a scale from 0% to 100%. Think of spectral data as color DNA or a color's fingerprint; it's measured with a device like a spectrophotometer. Measurements are done according to international standards including a specified, consistent quality of light.

Applied to architectural color, you can categorize color by LRV and then use that spectral data point as a benchmark. For example, you've tested a range of colors with LRVs in the low 30's and they all feel too dark. At that point, you know to start pulling colors with higher LRVs that are lighter and more in line with what you envision. Understanding LRV enables you to predict how light a color will look and feel once it's up. Easy.

If you compare a yellow and a gray with the same LRV, for example, it's hard to see the similarity.

This is a little more complicated. LRV is just one of the key points of spectral data. Equally important are the psycho-physical dimensions of color which are hue, value and chroma. Color experts analyze - and compare - color using all four because each answers a specific question. For example, LRV answers the question how light or dark a color will look and feel in a space.

Once you understand what LRV is, it's easier to see similar degrees of luminance when comparing a yellow and a gray with the same LRV.

Yellow Iris BM 373 and Dune White BM 968, for example, have the same LRV of 80. They're equally bright. What's different is the chroma. Yellow Iris is a lot more chromatic than Dune White.

But just because Yellow Iris is more chromatic and renders a more colorful visual sensation to the eye doesn't change the fact that both colors have the same luminance and will reflect equal quantities of light.

So, in this case Dune White and Yellow Iris have the same light reflectance value but differ dramatically in terms of chroma or colorfulness.

When you know how to dissect color and categorize it by hue, value, chroma and LRV It's not a matter of needing to "train your eye" to ferret out attributes.

Instead, the spectral data spells it out plain and simple. So instead of struggling to compare colors side by side and guessing about various attributes, you can just let the data guide and inform your visual assessment. In other words, the data tells you what you're looking at so you don't have to waste time trying to figure it out (and hope you get it right).

As always, great post Lori. I love your explanations.

BTW, I ended up going with clay beige on my project. It was definitely cooler than I was initially going for but it was the cleanest color in my low-light kitchen and it spoke to me. No undertones. Just the perfect LRV to contrast with the china white woodwork. And perhaps the cooler tones calms down the orangey cabinets. And its similar enough to Manchester Tan in the abutting rooms that its not noticeable that its a different color unless you are looking closely.

I nearly went with Cream Fleece. It seemed pretty clean with no pink showing, but a little too light so there was not enough contrast with the woodwork.. I considered using a brighter white trim than China White to compensate for that,but decided that was extra work I didn't need.

What was very clear to me in this process was how important natural light is. When you don't have enough, the color selection is so much more difficult. THe Manchester Tan in the abutting room is not a big problem because there is more light. Someday I will get rid of it, but no hurry.

When you don't have enough, the color selection is so much more difficult.

It's true, the light is boss. Change the light, and you change how the color looks.

Dim light requires paint colors with lower amounts of gray - they need to be brighter, clearer, cleaner than expected. The current popular colors are especially difficult to partner with dim qualities of light because they are so gray, muddy, dirty. Most won't reach for the paint chips that will work in a dim quality of light and render the "greige-ish" look that's popular now because of how colors look on their own, out of context of the space with the dim light.

Interesting and informative discussion. Speaking of light, I always used Reveal incandescent bulbs which are not available any more. I can't find a replacement that I like. I keep trying different LED bulbs with no luck.

HI Wendy...... glad you found a color that works for you. The lighting in my house changed every color I looked at! I would see the perfect color in a picture and then bring it home and it would always look pinkish. The clay beige we chose is perfect. We love it so much, I ended painting the entire first floor that color. It looks just as great in in my sunny family room as it does in my dim northern shaded dining room. Even my orangey oak floors looks less jarring. BTW, gray looks lovely against it.

I was searching for BM Muslin, as I am considering it for my entryway (north facing with beige carpet hello) as well as SW Accessible Beige -and SW Maison Blance- Behr Raffia Cream-BM Creamy White.

You get the picture total indecision. Also because we are putting the house on the market in the spring and it currently has wallpaper (a lovely tone on tone ivory creamy stripe but 25 plus years old it's not in good shape and needs replacing)............so i searched and stumbled on this thread with lots of

excellent color talk.

What a great thread!

I have a tri-level home and we are painting the lowest level, which is clearly seen from the kitchen, and which makes the dining room wall color come into play since you look through the dining room from the kitchen to the lower level.

My dining room has muslin on the top of the wall, white dove crown molding/chair rail/baseboard, and booth bay gray on the lower half of the wall. I thought I had finally picked a good color for my lower level: Collingwood Gray with white dove trim...doing upper and lower gray with the same trim layout as the dining room. The problem I saw tonight is that the muslin/boothbay gray do not look good with Collingwood essentially next to them, so now I think I need to start all over again with finding a color that will work in my lower level (which is not well lit naturally), and wonder if I need to abandon gray all together. Any thoughts on a color that won't clash but is a little deeper than muslin? Or a gray that would look good transitioning by booth bay and muslin?

I have tried numerous SW colors and didn't care for most though popular gray and on the rocks are nice, just not for my basement. I prefer BM colors. I would love any suggestions on an accent color for our built in bookshelves as well. They are med brown with golden flecks so clash with a lot.

Thank you for any direction. At this point I wonder if I have to just put muslin in the basement, but I wanted gray if possible (prob warm).

Well, after looking at going light and needing to decide, I have decided to stick with Collingwood for my lower level and just do the foyer, which leads in to the dining room, muslin or pale oak. The latter looks very similar to muslin, just darker, but it is smooth given the way my walls are and the south vs. North lighting.

Fyi the beautiful muslin of 2013 used a base color that is uncommon, and in my area is special order only. BM says the color hasn't changed, but in the standard base used now yields a very different shade.