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Probable old garden rose ID help request

9 years ago

here's my flickr photostream. Hi everyone! I bought a rose at the 2012 Sacramento City Cemetery open garden and incorrectly decided that it was an "Anna Marie de Montraval". Well it's finally settled into my yard and I think there's a better chance of getting it properly named now.

It was labeled as an "unknown polyantha" but I'm thinking it's not a poly. I vaguely recall that the volunteer said the plant had been dug up from a corner of a friend's large yard after being forgotten for several years.

She spent about 9 months in my atrium where she was very unhappy and threw out 15-foot-long canes to climb through my jasmine plants to get the the sun. Now she's in my backyard and is staying shorter with more flowers -- much more flowers. I've uploaded a bunch of pictures to flicker. The scent is nearly identical to the Hoffman Von Fallersleben (a hybrid musk) I got to sniff at this year's open garden.

I have a couple of ideas about what it could be but I really trust your collective knowledge more than anything else.

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Comments (8)

AquaEyes 7a NJ
9 years ago
Just throwing out some possibilities:

'La Perle'
'Lamarque'
"Manchester Guardian Angel"
"Pilarcitos"
"Pleasant Hill Cemetery"

Others who are more familiar will be better able to offer suggestions.

:-)

~Christopher
jannorcal
9 years ago
If it is a rose from the cemetery (which I am not sure it is if one of the volunteers said it came from a friend's yard), then it could possibly be Placerville White Noisette.
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My mother-in-law also grows this rose (we dug it up from the same old house place) and hers is fuller and more fragrant. She has better soil than I do. I don't have a great sense of smell, other people think it is more fragrant than I do. The number of leaves, bud pictures, suckering,and once flowering habit, are closer than any other rose I've found yet. The pictures at Help Me Find are almost identical to mine.
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Your rose looks similar to a rose in the Sacramento Cemetery, our found rose, "Dr Peck's 12th Avenue Smoothie" is thornless, once blooming. Very fragrant. This found rose is thought to be the same as the Charles Lawson in commerce. Below is a link to a photo I took in the cemetery a few years ago. I liked this rose so much that I propagated it and planted it in my yard even though it is a once bloomer. It is quite vigorous and now takes up the back corner along the fence. Here is a link that might be useful: Dr Peck's 12th Ave Smoothie/Charles Lawson
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Jackie, if you're still following this thread, here is a photo I found of reddish new growth on the mature plant that doesn't belong to me; this photo dates to August of last year, so the red cast to new leaves isn't only in spring, although it may be more likely then: That is about as red as I see anything on the plant itself. I did see some of this reddish new growth on the plants I rooted from cuttings this spring, but now the larger of my plants is putting out lots of leaves that are green from the start: Something I meant to ask about is the reddish stamens. My flowers pretty much always have a bright red tinge to the stamens, but someone familiar with 'Pax' said they didn't think that was characteristic of the plant. In the first photo you posted, it does look a bit like the stamens are red, but I'm not sure if that's just the lighting in the photo, or if your flowers normally have red stamens. Thanks, Virginia
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You say it could be 30 or more years old? Then I'd say you have no need to worry about saving it. It's proved it's a survivor! I have no idea what rose it is but it looks like a modern climber of some sort. You can prune off dead wood any time of year. To tell if a cane is alive or not snip a couple inches off the tip of the cane and look at the inside. If it's a greenish white color and looks moist it's alive. If it's brown or tan snip off a little further down and check. Keep doing this down the cane until you see that clear, healthy center. Clean up those broken canes at the base. You want clean cuts that you can seal with glue or nail polish so pests and diseases can't get in. Make your cuts at about a 45 degree angle just above a leaf node if possible. Otherwise I would not prune it any further now. Roses store their energy to come out of winter in the canes. Early spring is the best time to do any kind of hard pruning on a rose. When it comes out of dormancy it will be raring to grow and will fill back out quickly. When it blooms next spring get clear close up pictures of the buds, half open blooms and fully open blooms as well as the leaves, canes, thorns and whole bush. Then we might be able to ID it for you.
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Ellen W.
Original Author
9 years ago
What makes this harder is if you look at the help me find for the really early noisettes/the r. Moschata crosses it really seems that there is either a lot of variety in how the different cultivars express themselves or there are several misidentified photos.

I really thought I had found it once- turns out the plant it most looks like to me is dr. Malcom Manners's open-pollinated seedling Xochimilco!

Thanks for your suggestions! It's so hard when there aren't really strict botanical pictures of roses available. I keep thinking "well the flowers are close but what do it's thorns look like?"
jannorcal
9 years ago
It IS possible that it could be Xochimilco. We sold some of his roses a couple years ago after our October seminar. If the tag got lost it could have been labeled a unkown polyantha.
Ellen W.
Original Author
9 years ago
I can't even tell you how happy that would make me!
jerijen
9 years ago
I can't imagine Placerville White Noisette throwing out 15-ft. canes. (Setzer Noisette could, though.)
Ellen W.
Original Author
9 years ago
It was pretty impressive. It's sort of what makes me think this has to be within one or two generations of r. Moschata proper.
Ellen W.
Original Author
8 years ago
I've added a few new pictures to show the hot pink center it has started showing as the flowers age - I don't think I've seen that on any other rose before!

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