that wasnt my point .... the point was that stuff happens.. even with stock that is thought to be reliable in any given zone ... mother nature really lacks a sense of humor when she has a bee in her bonnet ... to mix a bunch of metaphors .... most wont care about a z4 in my example.. it just wont matter... but something though secure.. might not make it ... and its usually the one i prize most ... lol anyway .... i recall once.. discussing this with a very large wholesaler.. complaining about another supplier.. and wondering why the bad labels .. like you ... and his best guess was that supplier A ... had a quarter million tags printed up so many years ago .. and they will be damned.. if they arent going to use them up.. before they print another batch .... and i bet some of this is behind bigboxstore labeling problems ... all speculation.. who knows ... ken

I am growing 4 Cupressus glabra in Z.5/b. I'll show you 3 close together. The key to success is to afford them some protection. Mine are backed up to Juniperus virginiana for contrast and protection from north winds. They have all seen -5F. with never any damage. I have never had deer damage. Last winter deer census and it was determined we had 148 per square mile at our local park. They are now culled back to 38 per square mile. Still to many. Buy them and enjoy... Dave Left-right...'Raywoods Weeping' 'Blue Ice' 'Blue Ice' again center Picea omorika 'Skytrails' then Cupressus glabra 'Blue Spire' What the heck...as long as I have the camera out I'll throw in the other also. Cupressus glabra 'Blue Pyramid'

>>I wonder If I graft the japanese maple onto a regular hardy maple in my climate?Grafting I'll use the example of roses here. Just like japanese maples, most roses are not hardy to zones 4 and lower. The are zone 5 and up. Hybrid tea for instance are not hardy but they are grafted onto hardy roots. Unfortuntely, this doesn't make them hardy in zone 4 and down, we have to protect them heavily so they will come back the year after and even then you run the risk of loosing them. Not because the root system is in danger but because the grafted part is. But even if you loose the grafted part during the winter, you still may have roses that will emerge from the root stock, below the grafting point. Of course, they wont be the same hybrid tea that you bought since that part died, but a hardy rose from the plant on which it was grafted. I would say the same rules would apply to japanese maples grafted onto hardy maple roots. You probably know the Explorer Serie roses. These roses are hybrids but are not grafted, they use their own roots to grow from and they are hardy to zone 3 and some to zone 2. I have 5 of them doing very well and they never needed any kind of winter protection and I never even thought about giving them any either (zone 4b QC, Canada). Why is this? The crosses were made between hardy species and/or cultivar from the the start and the breeding was done not to impart hardiness in the first place but to develop other caracteristics such as colors, trailing habits, short plants, diseases resistantce, etc. They probably used less hardy roses in their breeding program to bring in some new genes unvailable otherwise. Hybridizing If you cross two zone 5 plants like two acer palmatum, you'll end up with a bunch of other zone 5 plants. But if you cross a zone 2 plant with a zone 4 plant, you will probably end up with 80% of the plants hardy to zone 3, 10% hardy to zone 4 and 10% hardy to zone 2. Then if you take one of these new zone 3 hardy plant, roses for example and cross it back with a zone 2 rose, you may end up with a 50% zone 3 and 50% zone 2 stock. And if you cross back again one of these new zone 3 rose with a zone 2 rose, you may end up with a 75% zone 2 - 25% zone 3 ratio. These same rules would also apply to maples making crosses between 2 different species, one of them being the japanese maple for the first cross. The difference is here: in the example of roses I took, the desirable plant and the one used in every cross was a zone 2 and the goal was to bring a zone 4 plant to zone 2. With every cross I did I added some zone 2 hardiness to the gene pool. With the japanese maple, we would be working against the odds, the desirable plant and the one that should be used in every cross is a zone 5 plant and that would bring a zone 3 plant to a zone 5 only. And if I added more and more zone 3 maple, I would be loosing more and more of the japanese gene pool. Either way leads you away from the wanted result. And we haven't even said a word about what could be recessive of dominant in these crosses, which is also a very important factor to keep in mind. This can be observed in the new clematis hybrids that are reaching the market these years. Old clematis were hardy in zone 4, but crossing them to warmer growing one has yielded many new very desirable hybrids, but only hardy in zone 5, 6 or even 7. We have gained in beauty but lost in hardiness. In a word I don't think grafting would be successfull in the way you would want it to be. And breeding wouldn't work quite the way you would want either from what I understand from what you said. These are two of the reasons why I said that selection was a much better approach in your case. It is not an easier or shorter one way to do, only a safer one. Hope this helps!

Hey Joe, I did get the pic finally, it's 2:05 AM now though, I have been going through my emails, I can't seem to find my camera. I know I took about pics, when I find the camera I'll post the pics, but, anyhow, the QMLO is actually budding up now and most of my other trees aren't. The weather here is the reason why. We've been having pretty much warm weather for most of the last 3 weeks with an occasional cold spell that lasted a day or 2 maybe 3 days at most, so a southern tree could get confused and think it could bud out, we've had a consistent 3 weeks of mostly warmth and only maybe 1 night a week of cold, not enough cold to make a QMLO think it had to worry at all about relaxing and pushing out some new growth. I should say though, the buds are just a bit swollen, not ready to start growth yet. As soon as I find the camera I'll show you the bed swell. It is pretty much like your pics Joe. I have about 3 pics. At first I thought my camera was broke, but, I had to charge the battery. Anyway, I'll get the pics to you within the next couple days, okay? I saw a old leader that I will replace that the Cicadas killed. No big deal. Okay later.