Log cabin KITCHEN reno... PLAN advise appreciated!!!
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Guess the layout is the place to start but... comments on anything would be welcome...
We enter mostly from a door off breakfast area, not the door you can see.
Looks beautiful on paper but removing the peni doesn't really open anything up because of that loved seating we use often backed up to it. Lengthened the peninsula and moving the cook top there added nicer prep area.
That SS top you might have noticed moving about is my island... :)
About use... just myself n DH, we both cook but NOT at the same time! :)
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- 9 years agolast modified: 9 years ago
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help and advise on house plan/style
Comments (6)Hello Bigtrain333: We are also looking to build a retirement home, but in Northern Georgia, and we too are considering a Timber Frame construction using (SIP) Structural Insulated Panels for the framing. One person I have been in contact with is Jeff Johnson in Franklin, North Carolina (see his contact info below). Ironically, Jeff has resently built a Timber Frame Home only a mile away from our present home here in Naples, Florida! Amazing coincidence! Infact it is on his web site "Home Page Images" (green colored home w/dark brown timber frame exterior accents). My wife and I have driven by that home and it looks beautiful! Jeff has also asked the Owners if it would be OK for us see to the inside of their home, which they happily agreed, so we will certainly be calling them to setup an appropriate time to visit. After emailing and talking to Jeff he too agrees that SIP's are the most cost effective way of enclosing a Timber Frame home, plus they are Energy Star Compliant and provide the highest insulation factor for the money. One thing to consider when Designing a Timber Frame home is to keep it simple! The more complex your design the more it will cost...Log homes have the same issue. This is why our Prow Front Chalet design has the Living & Dinning Area (Great Rm), Kitchen, Mast.Bed/Bath plus Laundry Rm/Half Bath...all on the Main Floor. The total square footage is approx. 1,500 sq. ft. or 30ft. wide x 50 ft. long. The 2nd Floor has a Bed/Bath and small Loft sitting area over the Mast. Bath and Laun/half Bath area below. Which allows all the Main Floor ceilings to be open all the way up to the Timber Frame Roof Rafters. and with a Gable Dormer over the 2nd Floor, that also will have vaulted celings. I've found Jeff to be a wealth of information and a very easy person to communicate with. He has reviewed our Preliminary Home Design and already has ideas how to lower construction costs. You may want to talk to Jeff about your home design before you reject the idea of building a Timer Frame Home completely. Yes a Timber Frame home is more expensive then a normal home, but I for one would rather have well built smaller home then a larger poorer built home that will require more maintenance in the long run! If anyone out there has prior experience, positive or especially negative with Timber Frame construction? Please provide your feedback so we can avoid those issues before we proceed ahead with our project? Good luck BigTrain and thanks to anyone who can provide us feedback! Jeff Johnson Timber Frames, Inc. http://jeffjohnsontimberframes.com/new/ 562 Terrell Road Franklin, North Carolina 28734 PHONE: Local.......828-524-7585 Toll Free...866-524-7585 Fax.........828-524-5611 Cell........828-342-5393...See MoreRemodel Plans - Please critique - All opinions appreciated
Comments (6)You sound like a very careful planner and researcher. Good for you! You have also already identified that this is to be an income property of some sort, either as a flip or a rental. Has the economic downturn affected your target market? What is your bottom line return? And more importantly...your budget? Do you have a realistic contingency fund for those unpleasant little reno surprises? One of the most important things to remember will be that you are NOT designing for yourself. Moving walls, plumbing and electrical are very expensive. But how much of that is really necessary here? You have a pleasant, conventional colonial as it is with a floor plan that may be somewhat dated but is certainly workable. Having said that, I would suggest only minimal structural changes, directing your efforts (and money!) instead towards modernizing the kitchen and bathrooms, the fixtures and the finishes. In other words, the "funnest" stuff. The only structural changes that I would advise are: 1) Move the laundry centre from the kitchen to the room that you designated as the office. Let's rename it as the utility room, since it appears that you have no basement and only a small garage. The washer and work sink would tap into the already existing plumbing of the adjoining bathroom. Incorporate a new pantry and other storage area in this room as well, maybe by re-purposing the old kitchen cabinets. A folding/sewing/craft area could be made from the old kitchen counter top placed under the window. 2) Demo the little closets from the kitchen previously used for the w/d and the pantry. The passage between the kitchen and the DR would now be wider without sacrificing any kitchen wall space. In fact, do not knock down any walls. Gut the rest of the room from floor to ceiling and start again using attractive stock cabinets, lighting etc. I do think that the "L" shape as you drew it would work well. I also have some added suggestions. I would forgo any upper cabinets on the "L" in favour of a bank of cabinets and built-in microwave on the wall with the fridge. I would centre the stove on the short arm of the "L", topping it with a architectural type of exhaust fan. An island would have been nice but you have to have 3' clearance in all directions to avoid traffic congestion. Doesn't work here. A peninsula is not really necessary either since you have a long stretch of counter space and there is both a kitchen table and a dining room table only a few paces away. 3) I would be tempted to convert the jut-out back to the original screen porch - it does look rather like an unhappy after thought, both from inside the house and on the exterior. Don't you have bugs in NC? Especially if you decide to extend that awkwardly shaped back deck for the kids to play on. It would ultimately depend on the structure itself, whether it is worthwhile saving. Remember, it's NOT for you - you deserve the biggest bang for your buck. That's it - no more structural changes. And you have some wonderful wood flooring and trim already in place. Strip away all the wall paper, the panelled half-walls, kitchen linoleum, undesirable bathroom fittings and worn carpeting. Then, start to fluff. Aim for the average consumers' taste - clean, welcoming, predictable. Repaint all the rooms in the same neutral tone throughout the house. Don't remove the brick in the FR (a horrendous job) but paint it the same colour as the walls. Add a substantial mantle piece. The flooring should also flow together seamlessly from room to room. The new bathroom cabinetry ideally would reference that in the new kitchen. Of course,stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops are what everyone want. With that, I'm done. Take what suggestions you fancy and leave the rest. Just remember the mantra - it's NOT for me, it's NOT for me......See MorePlease advise/help with Kitchen Plans – several drawings of plans
Comments (3)Regarding the refrigerator -- we have just under 33" b/w the refrigerator handle and the counter edge across from it - and it's much too shallow an aisle! We were stuck with it b/c of the numerous measuring errors on the part of our KD. While it's something we've adapted to - if someone is in the refrigerator no one can pass by - it's not what I wanted! (I was aiming for 48".) . However, it's your home and Kitchen - so it's your choice how to handle it. We're here to give you advice - with no financial benefit accruing from specific designs/appliances/etc. - and it's your choice whether to take it or not. I understand that you're used to what you have and you can't imagine anything better - but keep in mind that: Human beings are very adaptable. We can adapt to anything - good or bad - even the worst layouts! We adapt so well that we tell ourselves it's fine the way it is - we cannot imagine doing it differently or making it better. But, what if it could be better? If you ask just about anyone here who took our advice and changed their layout to make it better, they will tell you they never realized it could be so much better and wondered how they had lived with the issues for so long! (The answer is back to the adaptability of human beings!) Human beings are resistant to change. Even when something can be made better, we resist change. We like what we know and we have a hard time seeing other ways to do things - even if they could be so much better! And, as I mentioned before, we've adapted to what we have - both the good and the bad. [This is not specific to you - we are all resistant to change to some extent!] Once we get past that resistance and start opening up to new ideas, though, it can be amazing what we can come up with - and I don't mean just the people here helping you, I mean you and your family coming up with new ideas as well! So, why not at least try for something better and give others a chance to come up with a better design? If you are not open to looking at other options, then so be it - as I said before, it's your Kitchen, so you can do what you want with it. Good luck with your remodel!...See MoreHouse plan advise
Comments (29)Dining Room It's too small. To seat 8 people, you need a table approximately 7 feet long at a minimum, (8 feet is even better) you would have 3 diners on each side and one on each end. The average (non-skimpy) table is 40” wide (and up to 45”.) You need to add 3 feet beyond the edge of the table size on each side and end for enough space for the chair, the diner and moving the chair back. You need to have between 28-30 " seating space per diner. So for eight diners, you need a room size that is a minimum of 13’ x 9.5’ (14’ x 9.5’ is better) that doesn’t have a single other stick of furniture in it besides the table and chairs. If you want a buffet or hutch, add another 20” to 24” to either dimension depending upon where you put the piece. Eight diners will get you your family and both sets of grandparents. That’s it. No aunts or uncle or cousins or friends. If you want 10 diners you need a table that is 9.3’ - 10 feet long (that can be including the leaves). If you want 10 diners your room needs to be a minimum of 16 feet long, or longer if you want your buffet or hutch to be at the long end of the room. 10 guests will get you your immediate family, another family of four people, and one set of grandparents. And so on. In your plan, the dining room is way too small if you plan to entertain any more than 8 people at a time. I suggest that you forget about seating at the kitchen counter. Move the dining room closer to your kitchen, put it where the front bedroom is and expand it considerably into where the current dining room is so that it can accommodate the number of guests you will be entertaining when you entertain. If you live out in the country it is a good idea to get to know your neighbors and your children’s classmate’s parents, and entertain back and forth, you do need each other. Use up the entire front bedroom and half the current allotted dining room, and that should give you a good amount of space. I happen to hate totally dining rooms totally open to the kitchen. When you eat a nice meal, no one needs to see all the mess of the meal prep, but that is up to you how you want to configure it- totally open, partially open, whatever. You can get a dining table with many leaves and keep it smaller, or you can keep it open and your boys can do their homework their under your watchful eye, and you will be near to help and later to supervise their work on their laptops as they get older. Make sure the dining room and great room have lots of outlets and your home has good wifi connectivity in all rooms. Laundry and Mudrooms Someone commented early that the laundry room is too big. I disagree. You need room to open the ironing board. You need the counter to fold clothes, or to spread out sweaters to dry, or to lay out sewing patterns without worry that your children will set snacks on them. Maybe you put your sewing machine on the counter to sew. I do have an issue with the mudroom. I would not have the closet cut into the laundry room that way. I would figure out exactly what you use the laundry room for, is it also a craft room, do you need more counters, etc. Then actually think carefully about what kind of storage you need in the mudroom in terms of cubbies. i.e., do you need 4 cubbies? Five including one for dog leashes and other dog things? Plan that space out exactly to the inch. Use the ones shown in catalogs like pottery barn or crate and barrel as exemplars. Then I would think about pushing that closet forward so it doesn’t encroach on the laundry room, and find a more creative door solution so it doesn’t take up corridor space in the mudroom hallway. A desk in the mudroom? Can you please explain that? And speaking of closets- Foyer Am I reading that plan correctly, you don’t have any closets at the front door? Oh goodness! Well, you now have a much larger foyer because you have gotten rid of the front bedroom and the too small dining room. Make a large closet. Large. Larger. Your guest wear coats and boots and hats. If you can, have two closets, one on each side of the door. If you have six guests in the winter or rainy season, they will have six coats and six hats and six umbrellas. You know you don’t want those coats on your bed or hanging off your shower and dripping in your bathroom. With the larger foyer, you have the chance to make it gracious. Get a lovely table and a nice chair next to it so when someone comes and is waiting, they can sit. Indoors. There are marvelous ways to decorate a foyer. But first things first. Kitchen Your kitchen design isn’t logical and was designed by someone who doesn’t cook much. Great that you have two sinks, but both sinks need to be l-a-r-g-e. ‘Cause I know you know how long celery, green onions and corn and rhubarb are, right? And maybe there is a glimmer of hope that occasionally someone occasionally helps you out in the kitchen so do you really need to be bumping behinds when one of you is at the island sink and the other is at the range top? Please move that island sink. And as mentioned earlier, get rid of the counter seating, and with the dining room now right next door, eat at the dining room table like civilized people facing each other and have conversation. It’s worth it for everyone to walk three steps and let the kids set the table and carry things and you two for you to not let yourself be treated like a short order cook and have the children develop table manners and conversational skills and give their thumbs a rest from those e-devices. Without the counter seating you have tons more storage space in the island, and who doesn’t need that? And you saved all that money on counter stools, and you don’t need such a big slab for the counter either. Maybe you can put that saved money into better storage, like drawers instead of shelves for the lowers in the kitchen. About the kitchen sink- have you thought about using a single large sink instead of a divided bowl? With the dishwasher right there, how much do you wash by hand and when you do, do you really wash, soak, rinse, do a whole two separate bowl procedure? Wouldn’t you rather have one big bowl for the really big things that won’t fit in the dishwasher? Do you really want to carry a dirty-with-food and gravy huge platter through your house to the mudroom? Outside to the garage in the pouring rain? Does your kitchen need two entrance from the laundry room mudroom side? I don’t think so. Just have one, that will give you that extra space for more counter and more upper and lower storage. Keep the upper entryway into the kitchen because that is closest to the garage path, and close off the lower one. That will give you that wall and the one perpendicular to it, the one on the other side of the new dining room for a refrigerator, maybe even two refrigerators, a big sink, maybe two sinks, and a dishwasher. (And then put a full freezer in the garage.) Have the range on a wall where you can install a large hood that can vent to the outside, maybe the wall abutting the shed roof and put the microwave there on that side too. If you really want the second sink in the island, put a second sink in the island but not directly opposite another appliance and not smack dab in the middle of one of the long sides. Do you really drink enough wine to warrant a wine refrigerator? If you have meetings in your home for organizations, groups, parties, for your family and kids and groups you belong to, maybe a better (more versatile) choice is a beverage refrigerator that can be used for multiple things including things for your children, and get a lock on it anyway in case you do decide to store alcohol in it. Garage Your garage- is it really large enough? You live out in a countrified area. Maybe you have a van or a truck. I bet by high school your son will be driving and will need his own car. Mauybe both will have their own cars and part time jobs too. Don’t you think you should have at least a three and a half car garage? Or a two car garage plus a large electrified shed/workshop? I wonder if your two car garage is even large enough for your vehicles , let alone your bicycles, lawn mower and other implements of destruction. Look at all those things cutting into the garage space- a door, two sets of stairs. You need to be able to open the doors of your both cars on both sides, no matter what size car or truck you have. I don’t think you can do this. Think about this and do your own measurements, not what the builder tells you based on their own minimum requirements. And frankly, this is not a forever home for you if you have to walk up two flights of stairs from the garage with bags of groceries, either. Great Room Do you plan on having a TV in the great room, because I don’t see any place to put one. If you are having a regular fireplace with a regular height mantel, putting the TV over that is just too high. There are no other walls wide enough I that room for a TV. Is that a wall on the back of the foyer? If so , there shouldn’t be one, because your guests would be led into the great room. If you didn’t want someone at the front door to see into your great room you could have a wall there with a doorway into the great room off to the far right and you could choose to shut the door when the doorbell rings or when and if you keep the front door open with just the screen door on. The room is H-U-G-E. Have you planned out your furniture placement? Does it make sense? Who sits together on benches squished against a wall on the side of a fireplace except teenagers you don’t want in that proximity? Is that a wood burning fireplace? Maybe instead of those benches, build in a place to store cut logs ready to use in the fireplace, you can use both sides, and sort by size. On the other sides of the log storage, think about other built in storage such as closed storage on the bottom with open shelving on the top. You can put board games in there, and things like coasters and a basket or two to corral toys, and some nice decorative items, too. Just clean the logs before you bring them in or you'll have all manner of bug and rodents. And maybe think about putting in something that can make the fireplace easily convertible to a non-wood burning one because many areas are dis-allowing wbf's or so severely restricting their use because of either fire concerns or pollution concerns or deforestation concerns that you might want to switch over some day, or when you sell the house down the road the convertibility of the fireplace may make it more sellable. The last reason is the least compelling but if it doesn't cost a fortune it is should be considered even for that last reason, too. Master Bedroom Is there any particular reason you have the walk-in-closet on the far side of the master bath from the master bedroom? That’s a bit of a hike and doesn’t make sense unless one spouse has a very different schedule and doesn’t want to awaken the other. Is that the case? Is that a linen closet in the hallway outside the master bedroom? Get totally different doors. Get a series of cupboard doors, upper and lowers so all parts of the closet can be easily accessed, or else you’ll end up with corners of that closet you can’t get into. Having a door to the master toilet is disgusting. Yes it is, and I am going to spell it out because you haven’t figured it out. You have just used the toilet and your hands are literally full of the most disgusting disease-causing coliform bacteria and you have not washed them, and now you are touching the door knob and the door and the molding and who knows what else on the way to the sink. Just get a partial wall or something to disguise most of the view. But nothing you have to touch on the way to the sink! With all the doorways into the room and the windows, have you made a to scale drawing of that room with your furniture in it? Besides your bed you have have two dressers and a media stand. Hallways Where are they? It seems the house needs to be made 8 feet wider at least so you can have hallways on so rooms can be accessed via hallways without going through other rooms....See MoreRelated Professionals
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9 years agoCan the oven/MW go next to the antique cupboard, or would a range instead of a cooktop+oven be fine?
Here's an idea. I moved the DW and the sink to the peninsula and the range to the short wall. So you'd be facing windows when cleaning up and part of your prep area would be under a window. I got rid of the wheeled cart as it seemed to crowd the space. MW is next to the cupboard. I wrote down some measurements for cabs that I think can work, but as I'm no expert I may be totally wrong. With this arrangement, you can have about 15" more for the eating area while still have more than 7' for prep.
I think the 27" deep cab facing the breakfast can be for seldomly used things and you can have a pet area in front of it.
Maine Susan thanked sena01- 9 years ago
OK, exciting stuff suggested here! First off, computer stuff, I figured out to open two browser tabs side by side so I can answer these better. Memory fades...
Nancy... sorry yes that's 80" not 8', all my measurements are in inches... seemed easier. We love the woodstove area too, especially with our Maine winters.
On the stove side of the peni are our two big chairs, we could lose the little table between chair and could change out the big round table to something smaller but still eating height. I love eating at a table where DH/leather chair doesn't mind doing w/o. This shows a little better the area. Anyway, how much more open might it feel... guess I can actually put a new set up there to figure out!?! Actual flow to the chairs/table is not a problem as is but I do like the idea of looking more like one big area.
As for the door you see, that is not used very much and there really is no problem with the frig there... but I did just realize that frig is a CD and needs to stay one for the reason you mention. Our main door is in the diagram way over on the R near the foot of the stairs, on the bkfst room side.Our current vent hood just recycles, so moving the stove down would not mean a big hole through the logs in the wrong spot. I guess we should put in a 'real' vent/with hole thru logs :( if I go with that stove along that wall.
Don't want DW on left of sink... I need that foot there for Super Susan in corner... tired of that lost tavern down there! Wish also rules out DW on that wall to the left. I will just have to avoid prepping while DW is on... I already run HOT enough and hadn't thought of that!
I don't mind the uppers to the counter as prefer the small applicances inside an appl. center over than... give n take ya know? I don't bake much and will still have a landing area be it smaller. Also the movable island is very handy (if I still have it).
I am thinking a 27" oven raised a bit, we are tall, stepped back to a MW above it. Also a 30" cooktop. Will probably keep the extg frig for a bit, but needs to be CD (still) and less than 34" wide... that seems to be a little problematic in itself for bottom freezers, especially French door... w/o spending huge $$$ anyway.
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9 years agolast modified: 9 years agoJust a quick idea....orange stars are lighting :)
The fridge could go back to its original place by the pantry....or over by the prep sink, if that's even a possibility.
And with main prep area under window, maybe the sink could have a plate rack over it. This kitchen looks like the perfect space for a kitchen table and a few smaller chairs...as well as the larger chairs by the wood stove. Hope this helps!
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Nice to see you, too! I really like the cabin...it's charming :)
What about something like this?
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Here are a couple pictures a KD put together as a 1st look. We haven't meet since and I have also asked her to come up with a peninsula design too.
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One more peninsula layout. This one has a corner sink. The narrow open cab on the prep side of the sink can be for cutting boards/cookie sheets or towels.
Maine Susan thanked sena01 - 9 years ago
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