It's a d@mn shame how our education system is going down the tubes. My mother was a teacher. My sister is a teacher. Two of my nieces are teachers. They tell horror stories.....it's a sin.

My question is how then do these students have the grades/ACT scores to get accepted? Sounds like the colleges are willing to take sub standard students FOR THE MONEY. America does not need most of that 60% to be in college!!

My high school education did not adequately prepare me for college, so I am sub-standard and do not deserve a higher education? Interesting...

I'm not sure how much more prevalent this is than in past years. When I was in 4th year commerce majoring in marketing, I marked papers and exams for 3rd year students. There were 2 students who couldn't write their way out of the proverbial paper bag. Concisely answering a question with coherency was foreign to them Spelling and language/grammar skills were nonexistent. Keep in mind these are marketing majors and communication, one would think, is key. A month into the term I told the prof I would no longer be marking their papers because I would not take responsibility for failing them. I couldn't figure out how they got through first year English never mind their first 3 years of commerce.

That doesn't surprise me. It's not difficult to graduate high school these days, and there are way too many for-profit colleges that will take anyone who will pay the (steep) price. And 18 year olds don't always understand the significance of taking out massive student loans because they've been told over and over that they will accomplish nothing without a college degree. It's a bad cycle.

Too many high school students take the easy classes and avoid college prep classes and advanced classes. Then they wonder why they must take remedial classes. Also, colleges must be accepting many students whose test scores are low with the remediation requirements they report for their freshmen.

My kids graduated from our neighborhood schools. They followed the suggested college prep curriculum and even took more advanced classes. None of them had to take any non credit remedial classes.

I am against any remedial classes being offered at the university level. In the past community colleges filled the gap in a student's education. Now they have been dumbed down also. At risk high school students are pushed into community colleges to artificially lower the dropout rate.

Too much "teaching to the tests" so the school can get a better rating for a district. ... Just my opinion.....and it is a crying shame that our students are not better prepared for a higher education, especially for the cost of college!

"We" thought a computer literate generation was the answer to all our educational prayers. Well...without a digital device in their hands few students can write legibly...do simple math...or form an original opinion. The day that schools made computers a mandatory piece of school equipment for every child...we opened the door to one school of thought and slammed the door on another...citing it as "old fashioned". It seems sad to ask but...what on earth did we do? And why are we such a society of extremes? Will we ever learn to blend the best of all generations to create something better with which to go forward? I sure hope so!

Interesting article in our Sunday paper speaking about how we (educators/parents) have reacted to the last two "recessions" by encouraging students to focus more on techy-like subjects in order to be assured that they can be successful in earning a living. The result being, that the humanities (English, literature, drama, philosophy and writing) are not attracting students either in High School or College..... and teachers kind of agree that students need to focus on Science and Math. So, the problem becomes that scientists or computer experts etc. are unable to write. They don't know how to write memo's, letters, organize reports or "tell their story". What an eye opening loss. DH and I know for ourselves how disadvantaged some young people are when they know nothing about history or historical literature, geography, let alone how to add, subtract and multiply and divide without a hand-held device.

It will be interesting to see how our Colleges and High Schools fare in the years to come.

Learning theory states education is reward in itself. To say your high school didn't prepare you is not acknowledging whose responsibility it was to learn. Our Governor just proposed we sink more tax dollars into these remedial classes at the college level to help the poor schmucks who did not have time to learn when they were in high school. It is all about priorities. While my children were home studying school nights most of their peers were running the streets having fun, being kids, sleeping in 'cuz mom will write them an excuse. Free education in America is biting us. We don't value FREE. The biggest chunk of my tax dollar goes directly to the schools. If a student decides teen years are for FUN not learning, I feel no sympathy. Later when they realize what they snubbed, what they threw away and are forced to pay for their error--well cry me a river they deserve it. Most likely they also tortured some poor teacher with poor behaviors and an entitled attitude. Public schools are a mess and the mess begins and ends at home, homes where parents don't instill values that will ensure success.

I would combat this by returning to a *meaningful* high school diploma. Let's provide apprenticeship training to students over 16 who are disinterested in higher education -- and make sure they can read and write to a reasonable level BY that age. Teach everyday-useful skills like managing time and money. (Kids are interested in what they can see is useful to them NOW.)

Not everyone is 'college material'. It would take a while for employers to stop requiring a college degree for every job -- an attempt to winnow out the person who merely 'did time' in high school. Few jobs actually require more than a work ethic and the skills of the HS diploma of old. The nation needs a workforce -- and responsible voters -- educated to at least a base level.

Other nations provide free education through university to students who can *test in*, and any late bloomers can still get it together and test in past age 18. (Think of the achievements of the *adults* who benefited from the GI Bill.) We are throwing money at a failed system without examining how to do it better. America is always loathe to copy any Old World country, but we need to look around us and adapt some *better* plan. (Cherry-picking "Charter schools" are NOT a good answer for a democracy.)

Nanny raises a good point. It's common knowledge now that the STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) fields are the most lucrative, and students are pushed in that direction so they have a better chance of finding a job that pays decently.

I know a lot of people with degrees in the humanities and they had a really hard time finding a good job when they graduated. A good friend of mine who graduated from one of the best universities in the country had to work in a movie theater after graduation because she picked the wrong major. Many employers don't value writing skills as much as someone who can code. It's just the reality.

It's a different world than it was a few decades ago. You can no longer support yourself with just any job, much less a family. Homes in many areas with a good job market are prohibitively expensive on anything other than a 6 figure income. Then there are the student loans that are often as much as the mortgage itself.

There is a place, but not a leadership role, for the person who can write code.

I'm reminded of an engineering grad who rose to V.P. in his highly technical company at a very young age because, in the words of the company founder, "Unlike most of my engineers, you can communicate effectively within the company and with our clients."

I agree with chisue, and my son is a good example. He looked forward to his Jr. year when he could be in the class that built a house every year to be sold by the school. Since he was just a sophomore and couldn't yet be in the class he spent his study hour with the teacher and learning some things on his own. Then the teacher retired that summer and the teacher was never replaced nor the class taught again.

He was in the MGM, mentally gifted minor, program when in elementary school but was bored to death in high school and I wasn't even sure if he would graduate or not. Computers were just coming in and enjoyed that class and working on the yearbook and his mechanics class. His mechanic teacher had lined up a mechanic job at a local dealership but it fell through because he didn't speak Spanish. He did graduate and had no interest in going to college, and was married before he graduated and had a baby.

We moved to MO to a farm and he worked at different small paying jobs and after several years he moved back to CA, and has been successful in the mechanic trade, now working for a large mining company overseeing all their equipment repairs and making good money.

We have a GD, a sophomore in college, that was homeschooled by her Mother, our DD and is doing very well. Although never diagnosed, DD is sure she has dyslexia and had some problems with homeschooling but is now making mostly A's and few B's in college. Plus the college she is going to requires her to work a certain amount of hours each work to pay for her tuition and she works on campus during the summer to pay for her board and room. DD said she learned more homeschooling her two children than she learned in school, especially history. She attended the same college that GD is attending as we couldn't afford to pay for a college nor want her to take out loans. This is College of the Ozarks near Branson, where all students are required to work to help pay for their education. She not only worked on campus, but off campus when schedule permitted and managed to save over $2,000 while doing so. She was very frugal. :)

I agree that people in leadership should be able to communicate. But, to become a leader in a corporation, you have to be hired first. :)

LOL, Chi38. How true! How true!

Another remark by my DH's lecturer was that his college students approach him at the beginning of a course to ask what is the minimum they must do to pass the course. (Sigh.) Looks like all you have to do to stand out today is to be a notch above that!

This is a subject that is dear to my heart.The back story: My DH grew up in SW Virginia, where so many males were coal miners. He was the 12th of 13 children. He "knew" he was not meant to be a coal miner. He "knew" he was meant to be a school teacher. WWII was on the horizon. As soon as he graduated High School, with excellent grades, he enlisted. Fast forward.. We met very casually when I was in my senior year of High School, far distant from where he grew up. He told me what his plans were for the future; that he would be a school teacher, primarily History, Government, Economics. We were married in 1944 and he was sent to the Philippines. War ended, he was discharged. With help from the GI Bill and working, it took 10 years, but when he passed away in 1982, he was still teaching at our local High School, the head of his department, loved by his students. having turned down Administrative positions.
I've said that to say this: I believe that many of us are born with an inner talent (call it genetics maybe) for something, be it a teacher, doctor, carpenter, mechanic, or whatever. I don't believe that every child born into the world needs a college degree. And yet many parents are determined to scrimp and save so they can pay for their child's college years. And then there are the young kids who spend their collge time partying on Spring Break, or worse, in the case of the girls who end up in the news and discovered kidnapped, and murdered.
I'll get off of my soap box now.
Sue

I agree, that not everyone is not cut out for college. The problem is that very few high schools offer alternatives. Instead, they push the students to head to college, and to the best ones so that they (the high school)has a good reputation.

One of my daughters went to a top university, only to drop out. She was swept up in the hype and excitement of getting into this school.

She came home regrouped and went back to a technical school for fashion. She received a B. S. degree in textile development and now has a high paying career.

The other problem is that even jobs that shouldn't need a college diploma still require one. Hiring managers won't even consider an applicant without a a college diploma for most professional jobs. Gone are the days when someone could get a decent job with a high school diploma and work their way up. Sure, it happens sometimes but it's definitely not the norm.

Of course, trade schools are entirely different, and I think too many people dismiss them for formal education. We will always need plumbers, electricians, mechanics, etc. and those professions can pay extremely well.

So if someone isn't interested in trade schools, there aren't many other options. And that's part of the problem. A college degree now is like a high school diploma a few decades back. Everyone is expected to have one, and those who don't are at a disadvantage.

My dad went back to grad school in the early 1980s and he was surprised that remedial reading was offerred to undergrad students then.

This is not new, not a result of cell phones/computers.

It's awfully expensive to just 'babysit' kids K - 12 on the public dime, then incarcerate those who can't earn a living any way but on the street. It's *our money*. What do we want to do with it?

What do we want to do with the money? Pay some athlete to jump higher, run faster, and all for our entertainment. Sure isn't to pay great teachers to do a great job.

I'm in my late forties and both of my friends who were great teachers, have already retired from teaching. That's right, went through university, jumped through all the hoops, and they're done. I assume teaching kids so they pass tests and you keep your job is pretty constraining. I haven't asked why they quit, but they're adamant to another friend that her daughter NOT teach. These two worked with special needs kids, and are special people who still love special needs kids. They've even won awards for teaching. When you lose people like them, your kids lose.

Very interesting thread and you all make excellent points. Don't have anything to add except this article from the Washington Post which was pretty upsetting:

"This exam, given in 23 countries, assessed the thinking abilities and workplace skills of adults. It focused on literacy, math and technological problem-solving. The goal was to figure out how prepared people are to work in a complex, modern society."

U.S. millennials post ‘abysmal’ scores in tech skills test, lag behind foreign peers