The basal canes grow 12-15' in a season and can extend themselves with laterals beyond that, so figure 30' of fence, or more if you want. It is said to be cane-hardy to around -10F, but in the worst zone 5 winters I think it would be damaged and need to be cut back, which might be an unpleasant chore considering how thorny it is. Wonderful rose though, with excellent disease resistance.

Thanks Michael. Thorny canes are definitely a downer. Wow, 30 feet? I definitely have to rethink this one. But I guess in cold zones it may not grow so big. I may have to dedicate a whole wall of my house to this rose.

South of me, New Dawn is about 20 ft. North of me, it is 2 ft. One of the problems with climbers is there isn't really anywhere they get sort of big. They either are hardy, or they aren't.

mad_gallica's post gets to the heart of the matter. But in middle zone 5, ND and other fairly hardy climbers might grow large for a few seasons and then need to be cut down after a hard winter.

Very true but sounds like a lot of work. I may grow it just for curiosity. It is a beautiful rose. I guess I could always prune harder and control the size. After all, I got winter on my side, so pruning bare canes wouldn't be a big problem as opposed to someone in warmer climate.

If you are serious about controlling the size, you'll have to do a fairly major mid-season prune after the first flush.

Ok, thank you for your advice. I can't blame anyone if I decide to grow it and I have a monster on the loose...lol. Now that I know the size, I won't grow it near the other climbers on the same fence. There are a lot of choices but it is a beautiful climber; tempted but with caution.

I prune mine, and I can live with that, but there is blood. Lots of blood! The thorns are really big and wicked. She can take the most shade (here) I've ever seen for a rose, so that's why I have more than one of her :) She really is a mean one, though!

Blood eh? Hmmm....

Yes, blood and plenty of it. This is the rose that made me finally cave and buy those goatskin gauntlets that I hate. After growing several of these meanies, I finally threw in the gauntlets, and removed New Dawn. Actually, my son in law did the removing. I just couldn't face it. The man is a saint. I think what I actually disliked most about the several I grew was that they only bloomed once. One big flush, and for all that blood it wasn't worth it.

'New Dawn' is the repeat-blooming sport of a once-blooming climber (Dr. Van Fleet) that is otherwise identical. Sometimes a cane of ND reverts to DVF and is propagated, and that is probably what nanadoll was growing. ND repeats reliably, but with climbers the first flush is much the best.

Michael, I've been told that before, but to have several all do the same thing must mean this reversion is pretty common. Diane

Diane, what if a small grower takes 40 buds from a single reverted cane?

Well, this grower was David Austin from TX, not a small grower. Every one of these roses was from Austin. Of course, your scenario could fit Austin, too. Others have posted that their NDs have only bloomed once a season, I have observed. So I would still think it's a fairly common reversion. Diane

I had two New Dawns from Weeks with pitifully poor repeat--a few individual flowers here and there so you couldn't exactly say it was a once bloomer. It was the worst repeat bloomer of the couple dozen of roses I have. They were fabulous for about 2-3 weeks of the year, but very high maintenance with a high likelihood of blood letting. They were also particularly suspectible to sawfly invasion for some reason and a couple years would completely defoliate by mid summer (which in hindsight might be related to the poor repeat.)

Note I said "had"--just not worth the trouble, especially for a featured spot in my garden. If I could have removed them in any condition to transplant I might have considered throwing on the back fenceline to see if it could compete with the deer and the neglect, but I had to completely butcher them to get them out with the least amount of damage to me!

My original of the clone I got is over 10 years old now and does repeat reliably. I do offer cuttings since I've heard about the lack of repeat a lot from folks :) I'd hate to get a New Dawn that was a dud :D

I have 3 of them, they're about 7-8 yrs old. One repeats, two don't (they became Dr. Van Fleet) . Dead heading is the key for it to rebloom. I learned that tip from this forum last year. Just wear leather gloves, no big deal. They're beautiful when covered with thousands blooms. I think you'd love it. :-)

Hi, here's my experience with ND. I have two growing on columns of my pergola, they are going into their 4th year. They are about 7ft tall & 3 ft wide, pruned hard each spring (late winter), my goal is to let them run free when they reach the top which will probably occur this summer. They are healthy & repeat bloom until frost, easy to maintain. Perhaps this is because they are in planting holes & surrounded by a flagstone terrace. Even though I am in z8 our summers are cool, the stone helps warm things up. Perhaps this retards their rampant growth.

Jane

I have just read a few of the comments on helpmefind site and generally the opinions are split too. Some people find this rose great but others doesn't. I think it all depends on the climate and if you got a good plant too it seems. I guess logically it would be ideal to find people in my area growing this one to see how it will behave over here. Either way, thanks for all your response, much appreciated.

It's a great rose. Here in London, Ontario, it has grown to 12 x 25' and stayed like that for years, disease free, fragrant, and repeating. However, the last 2 winters have been severe enough to raise to the ground, or almost, growing back to a third of its former glory. It, therefore, should be covered in fall with burlap or the like to enable all of its canes to survive a brutal winter. Still, I wouldn't be without it.

Steve

summers rhythm makes a good point that the first flush needs deadheading if you want good repeat. You can do this casually with hedge shears, so it's not a terrible chore unless you have to get on a ladder. Don't worry where you snip, just get rid of the hips.

Wow that looks very cool Elks. Beautiful and healthy too. Good choice growing against the red bricks because it made the rose really pops out. Love the way it grows over the window, so the rose can be appreciated on the inside as well. If it does well in London, Ontario than Toronto shouldn't be a big problem. Thanks!

Thanks guys, I will write all your important points down so when I do decide to grow this rose, I will have a good start.

Getting 5 more New Dawns for a north facing wall. There is no other roses like ND bloom in the shade. :-)

Well summersrhythm you convinced me to give my ND another chance. It is still small but this will be its second year.

I have to ask summer, just how big is your garden. Do you own a botanical garden or something? lol.

Lol, I am so glad you're keeping your ND. There is a good reason it landed in your garden. :-) I only bought 3 NDs tonight, I saw 2 Pretty in Pink Edens there, so I put 2 out of 5 NDs back (they were holding them for me)......this is called " self-control". :-) I don't have a big yard, my lawn is shrinking.....I planted them tonight, finished job right before dark! :-)

FWIW, I have tried three times to grow New Dawn (both own root and grafted), and it has died every time. The longest lived was the own-root one, but that was no more than 3 years and it was the tiniest twig all through that period (no more than 2 feet). As Michael said to start these responses, there can be a huge difference in New Dawn as you cross its optimal hardiness line. You might be able to squeak it by jjpeace in the zone 5/6 border, particularly since it's already established, but I've not had any luck with it here in a typical zone 5 winter. It might not climb for you though, if it dies back, or might not bloom much if it has to recover from being pruned to the ground.

Cynthia

I know what you are saying Cynthia. Sorry about your New Dawn, you must love that rose since you tried 3 times. If you'd like to try it again, I can root some for you. :-) I have 3 7-8 years old New Dawns already in the garden before the new purchase. 2 are once bloomers (went back to their parent), one repeats. They're all doing ok here, not totally cane hardy though. Mine only grow up to 10-15' , not big monsters. I heard there was an old rose club leader here, he had 20-25' tall New Dawn on his north facing wall, but he was in a little warmer zone (even it's only 1 hr away). That must be a lovely sight. The new house owner cut it down as soon as they moved in. Now I am creating my own New Dawn sight on north facing wall....... I have to look for some big trellis ideas. If it doesn't work-won't repeat much, I'd move New Dawn to a diff location, this is part of fun of gardening, I have to give it a try....... :-)

I lost my 2nd MAC this spring, I have been water the root everyday, but nothing is growing out of there.....ordered another band, it should be here next week. I love that rose too.

Awakening from Antique Rose Emporium is fabulous for rebloom and good health.

I have one Awakening growing in my garden, a 3rd year band, it's only 1' tall. I planted it next to one none repeating ND, Heard so many good things about it, it grows so slow though.......after reading an old thread- " The 2nd best thing"-about Awakening, I am looking for a bigger plant, or a bare root. I think I might have more chances to find a big one in Canada. It's nice to know ARE has it, they have good sized plants.

Awakening looks really beautiful. Since it is a sport of ND, I assume that the rose is much alike in growth.

Well Cynthia, ND is in its second year. In spite of being pruned, my ND is shooting laterals very quickly. I have to say it is very vigorous especially on a second year rose. I actually don't mind if it doesn't grow up as a monstrous plant. I actually prefer a shorter climber instead of a monstrous one. However, I have to say that the flowers were very disappointing last year. I am only judging it on a first year plant. The flowers didn't last long and it was pure white for me. But I am hoping it will be better as the plant matures more.

JJpeace, Now I am thinking you might have a White Dawn since the blooms were white. All mine are very light pink. Is it possible your nursery mixed up?

Oh? I didn't realize there is a White Dawn. Yikes, now I have to see what the flowers look like this season. I remember it was just white flowers last year and they didn't last long on the plant. I will keep you posted.

Oh jeez, I just checked hmf site and it does look like it. Hmmm...now I am very impatient to see what kind of bloom it is.

I just checked mine today, the blooms change color from light pink to white after a couple of days,so yours still might be ND. :-)

It's so beautiful! Still try to find a bare root/grafted one somewhere.... it's hard to find.

When I was in Columbus Ohio, the former home of the American Rose Society still has a rose garden there. They have some great New Dawns, Then I saw on locally and it had Rose Rosette on it.

Thanks so much for the offer of the cuttings, Summers - I appreciate your thoughtfulness. In my world, trying a rose 3 times is actually par for an average rose, since even totally hardy well-established ones can die out of the blue. Coincidentally, one of those was Awakening that I got from Ashdown about 9 years ago. My photos were nowhere near as lovely as Sheila's, however - they were much smaller blooms no more than half-dollar at most and a very pale blush pink.

Incidentally, my record so far for replacing a rose is 7 times for Blue Moon (finally lived and even bloomed this year) and 8 times for French Lace (never got it to live - it is gorgeous but refuses to live here).

Jjpeace, it sounds like your ND is settling in very nicely if you're getting some laterals to grow. Don't be too impatient for blooms yet- if a second year climber is putting out healthy growth and laterals it's right on schedule.
Cynthia

Wow Cynthia, seven times to buy and plant the same rose is a lot of times. I admire your perseverance.

Honestly, my limit would be two times. I've only done it for two roses: Peace and Graham Thomas. My second peace was just gorgeous and vigorous but I lost her in the year of the polar vortex. As much as I love this rose, I went and bought her offspring, Chicago Peace instead. Never regretted it. CP is equally gorgeous as well.

My second GT is coming along. I don't find it vigorous at all. He seems to be better this spring with a few canes but seems very delicate. Then again it is his third year in my garden and I hope he will take off this season. I do love this rose a lot and it is my favourite yellow rose along Julia Child.

As for ND, it is coming nicely so far. It looks well behaved (crossing my fingers) and very healthy. I guess time will tell.

Cuttings from New Dawn root beautifully, but take 4 years to establish, perhaps even bloom. Its flowers open blush pink and fade to near white. Their perfume is delicious though not as strong as some others.

Steve

Glad your ND is doing well, JJpeace. You're kind to call my replacement rate perseverance, when many times it's just plain forgetfulness (or willful ignorance of the facts). This year for instance, I replaced Crescendo in J&P's $9.99 rose sale when I meant to replace Catalina - Crescendo is doing just fine. Ah well, I have different microclimates in the yard and roses do better in some spots than others. I've had roses die in my ultra-protected sunny zone 6 spot (Remember Me, Oklahoma, Royal Parks) that do quite well in other more shaded or harsher spots of the yard. Most are the reverse, which is why my hot sun spots are getting really crowded. Part of the reason I replaced Blue Moon so often was that I insisted my lavender bed was going to be in part shade to protect the color, but since lavenders are wimpy roses they really need to be in full blazing sun to survive my zone. Live and learn!

Patty, I meant to say that your kind offer was welcome but I've about decided that New Dawn is too much of a monster to put the effort into for my yard, and three tries is enough for me. Steve's comment that it would take extra time to establish is that much more of a reason to pass on this one, unless a ND happens to drop into my lap like a free one I got a few years ago. There are other climbers I like more.

Glad GT has survived well for you JJ, and I've found that experimenting with grafted or not, or different beds can really make a difference in rose survival. Freak deaths once or twice aren't necessarily enough to put me off a rose (yet).

Cynthia

I have generally given up on lavender roses as they don't survive in my garden. The only one that does well is Wild Blue Yonder. It is going strong and my only one. The only lavender I would like to try if I come across it is Novalis.

To be honest with you Cynthia, all my roses are grafted. I don't think I have an own root rose.

Having said that, there are so many roses to grow and so little time and space. If a variety doesn't grow in your yard, there are hundreds that will. There is nothing more fun for a rose lover to shop for new roses to grow.

I found this old thread and I am still puzzled whether I have New Dawn or White Dawn. The flowers has that light pink in the spring but in the summer it is all white with no pink at all. I guess it is safe to say it is white dawn? I will need to post some pics later as currently the blooms are scattered. If it is white dawn, I would have to pair it with a red climber later on. I like the combination of red and white climbing roses.

My ND has a darker pink bud, light pink bloom fading to almost white when fully open. It's really almost a blush colour at its darkest. Mine is definitely ND as it's an 80 yr old bush and blooms frequently, especially this year after some TLC and experiments.Even if you have the original, it looks beautiful with a dark red combo. I originally had some sort of once blooming dark red that died and I've replaced it with Munstead Wood. It's dreamy together

I have seen New Dawn twice over the years. One in Springfield Il. It had RRD. The other ones were in Columbus Oh at the former home of the ARS. Those New Dawns were nice. They were trained on a stout fence.

OBTW New Dawn has plant patient #1 !!!!

Thank you for your response. Mine is in its second season and it hasn't been a monster or anything. It is quite small, no more bigger than my other roses. However, it has been a constant bloomer. I just see pure white blooms from my kitchen. I think it will indeed looks nice next to a red rose. I am hoping to grown quadra or florentina next to it in the future.

JJpeace... Would you mind posting a pic of yours?