Thanks tigerdunes.. it gets even better about contractor 5, I asked him for a copy of the manual J and contractor 5 said sure for $150. right there I'm saying goodbye.

My gut feeling was contractor three or four were the most competent.

So you like 3–4 even though it same SEER/EER rating as 3–3? What coil and thermostat were you thinking on 3–4? thank you for your help.

Contractor 3, Quote 3-3 while a nice system is a single stage AC condenser and a single stage furnace with a high eff blower.

Here is the configuration for 3-4 that I would look at.

5996312 ActiveSystems TRANE XR17 TRANE 4TTR7048A1 4TXCC044BC3 1390 1115 *UD2C080A9V4 47000 12.50 16.50 1RCU-A-CB 353

Thermostat would be HW Prestige 2.0 with furnace staging based on demand and dehumidify on demand in AC cooling. WiFi model if interested. Plus a pleated filter media cabinet like Trane Perfect Fit.

IMO

First, I really appreciate your help.

It is only a $140 less rebate, but does going down to 12.5 EER make a difference at comfort & resell in less than 5 years? Our utility rebates $125 per ton for 16.0/12.5 & $160 per ton for 16.0/13.0. $225 per ton for 17.0/13.0 ratings.

I looked at
the quotes for Contractor 3 vs. 4 and need to mention the differences in work
scope for equipment proposal. I was under impression switching to A-coil would be beneficial. Each also gave proposals on additional duct
work fixes corrections.

Contractor 3 (Slab Coil): Transition
to existing plenums (slab coil), R-8,
2” of insulation, auxiliary drain pan, condenser pad,
float switches, programmable
thermostat, adapt to copper lines, gas connections, seal duct where needed,
adapt to vent pipe, electrical, correct
size circuit breaker, mechanical permit and inspection, labor, supplies.

Contractor 4 (A-coil): Build new supply and return
plenums w/ 1 1/2" Owens corning fiberglass duct board (A coil). Add new drain pan, electrical disconnect @
outdoor unit, electrical whip, copper fittings, PVC drain line fittings, gas
flex/ gas fittings, exhaust vent, slab as needed per unit specs and city code requirements.

Additional Duct
Work

Contractor 3 $1,792

-
Replace damaged duct above second floor (5) and seal flex duct connections

- Add supply grille in upstairs office or hall
where possible.

-
Add return grille in hall ceiling.

- Increase duct size feeding kitchen/nook
area and 4ft duct board trunk line for better airflow

Options: $331 to replace supply register (15) with wide
vane grilles, weather-strip and seal register boots from inside. $287 Aprilaire Media filter. Is Trane Perfect Match better fit?

Contractor
4: $893

- Transition trunk/branch lines feeding master bed room
side and upstairs to new plenum, remove any hard 90 degree turns to provide
better air flow to upstairs areas.

- Install damper collars on all three flex lines @
front of plenum to provide a means to adjust air flow

- Reattach two flex runs to plenum from utility and
dining rooms.

- Increase sizing of flex (8" to 10") to
supply kitchen and nook, remove the distribution box and "Y" off
7" to nook and 8" to kitchen register to provide better air flow to
these areas.

- Replace all owl flex that is broken open @ upstairs
attic (5 drops) with R-6 metallic coated flex ducting.

I hope this helps. I am awaiting Contractor 4's XR17 proposal.

Contractor 3, Quote 3-1...drop to the smaller 80% eff Infinity 80 furnace...AHRI numbers below... While rebates are great to consider, don't lose sight of the system itself...and please don't get bogged down to small changes in efficiency...really inconsequential...

7875203 ActiveSystems CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING INFINITY SERIES PURON AC CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 24ANB748A*031 CSPH*6012AL*+UI 1400 1120 58CV(A,X)090-16 48000 13.00 16.50 1RCU-A-CB 352Yes

The system above is very comparable to the Trane that I like. When I see that, then you want to take a look at warranty and which contractor one has the most confidence in.

You might want to take a look at Contractor 3 Quote 3-3 and Contractor 4 Quote 4-1. Notice anything? Basically same except for coil. Check the pricing, makes you wonder...

I'll take a look at your other remarks later as time is available.

IMO

I think you are better off using sheet metal for the duct work versus duct board. Do a search comparing the two. Most pros give a negative opinion on duct board.

I know I keep on asking more and more ?'s, there are many options and it confusing to someone not familiar with HVAC.......

@ Tigerdunes. Thanks again for your time and help. I didn't even ask why you thought system 3-4 would be better with a different coil.

My take was contractor 4 was basically rebuilding supply/return plenum based on an A-coil, whereas Contractor 3 was recouping some $ in additional duct work proposal. The duct system is poorly designed, however, it a slab coil is sufficient I have plenty of room in attic. I can take pics if it is helpful. Contractor 3 is a factory authorized Trane, however is Carrier dealer as well.

@mike_home. Thank you as well. I did a search & did see some negatives w/duct board. As we are going to be in house from 3-5 yrs, I would be worry about cost of replacing with metal. I can not redo entire duct system due to cost vs. benefit.

I am really struggling with the scope of work & coil type for Contractor 3 (slab coil & transition to existing plenum which a slab) vs. Contractor 4 (A-coil & rebuild plenum). There is quite a bit of difference in cost and I will only be in the house 3-5 yrs max. Is it worth rebilding plenum (attached a pic)? To complicate matters, my current duct system isn't fully capable of realizing the potential of a new system. Due to inaccessibility and cost, I will have to pick and choose what to repair on current ducts. Not an ideal situation but I would appreciate any further recommendations based on all factors.

Contractor 4 sent proposal for XR17:

4-2: Trane XR17 (17.5/13.0): 4TTR7048A1, UD2C080G9V4, $9,978 plus duct work

Your current furnace looks fairly new. How old is it? Why are you replacing?

I think the duct work needs to be completely reworked. What is that big box on the left. Is that where the current coil is located. Where is the filter?

The exhaust flue looks scary. I don't understand why this furnace was install horizontally. There appears to be ample room to install the furnace vertically.

@ mike_home: Thank you. Home built in 1986 and I moved in 2008, and have not replaced or repaired anything. Furnace is Rheem Criterion II & has service stickers from 1999. I have to replace coil & condenser so replacing furnace. Inside it is full of dust.

Coil is located in larger box on left which feeds supply side (2 trunk lines & multiple flex lines). Filters are in return registers (no inline filter). I can not afford to completely rework ducts with new supply trunk lines, new returns, tear down sheet rock, etc. I can attach more pics if necessary.

You seem to have a lot of room in the attic and it is insulated. I am not an expert on attic installations, but I am having a hard time understanding the benefit of installing the furnace in a horizontal position and then building this huge box to house the coil.

You should not have to start tearing down sheet rock to access supplies and returns. I think most of the duct work problems are exposed and easily accessible. I would think adding a return to the ceiling on the second floor would be relatively easy. I think you should add a 4 inch media filter at the furnace and remove the filters at the current return vents.

Has the contractor you are most interested in working with explained how the new furnace will be configured and how the main supply and return will be connected? Will the furnace be configured as an up flow or down flow configuration? You want clear answers on all of these questions. The equipment choice won't matter if the installation is compromised.

@ mike_home: Thanks I am awaiting replies from Contractor 3 on exact config. One of main trunk lines and return are in a tight chase and can not be accessed.

Contractor 4 stated: Going back in with the system oriented the same way it is installed right now, which is up flow/ horizontal left.

As far as Tstat controllability and on demand call for humidity control etc.. Contractor 4 stated he would not recommend setting up my home to function this way. That I have a single system that is running into expansive spaces that will limit the effectiveness of this function on the Tstats. The potential problems being that the humidity is different in other areas of the house, so if I set up the control to monitor and turn on and off with different humidity levels it will affect the temperature in the house trying to eliminate the humidity, and makes controlling the system troublesome. If I had multiple system or zoning this would be an idea,, and could work well, but the entire house he believes would be problematic. He recommends a T824 Wifi. Adding a Trane Perfect Fit is $360.

I don't follow the logic about not using a thermostat with the cool the dehumidify feature. The AC may have to run a little longer to bring down the humidity. Some parts of the house my be a little cooler than others. I personally feel comfortable with the humidity at 40% and the temperature at 78. I think this is better than having the humidity at 55% and the temperature at 75.

Is he recommending the Trane XL824? It does have the cool to dehumidify feature. You can always turn off the feature if it is not working for you.

Mike is correct. It would be a large mistake not having dehumidify on demand feature for AC cooling taking into consideration your location.

IMO

@ mike_home & @ tigerdunes: I believe he was talking about the XL824. It is a $450 upgrade and I believe there is a rebate from Trane. I will confirm. Will the XL824 do what I need? Still waiting to hear back from Contractor 3.

@tigerdunes & mike_home:
Contractor 3 & 4 I have felt good about.
Contractor 3 initially added small amount of R22 free initially. He must have gotten very busy/ or tired of my questions as his
responses have slowed down to grind.

Finally heard back form Contractor
3. He stated "supply plenum is large enough, they can
re-build return plenum for $225. He is
using a slab coil because airflow would be better, Supply plenum for
A-COIL would be smaller" He said supply plenum is big enough w/o
rebuilding.

I requested he price out Option 1 with Carrier Infiniti
with the 58CV(A,X)090-16 furnace instead. He stated "Again furnace was chosen for airflow.
58CV(A,X)090-16 IS ONLY 17” WIDE instead of 21”, Smaller plenum".
Did not re-price.

Contractor 3
said keep in mind Perfect Fit filters cost 3X of Aprilaire.

Final Prices incl similar duct work
repairs w/ utility rebate, instant Trane rebate for T-stat.

Contractor 3: $11,267 total. Can't fit me in on schedule til 1st week of May.

3-4: Trane
XR17 (16.0/13.0): 4TTR7048A1, UD2C080G9V4, 4TXFH054CC3, XL824

Scope: Rebuild return plenum and keep supply plenums (slab coil), R-8, 2” of insulation, auxiliary drain pan, condenser pad,
float switches, programmable thermostat, adapt to copper lines, gas
connections, seal duct where needed, adapt to vent pipe, electrical, correct
size circuit breaker, mechanical permit and inspection, labor, supplies.

- Install Perfect Fit media filter.

- Replace damaged ducts above second floor
(5) & utility (1) and seal flex duct connections

- Add supply grille in upstairs office or
hall where possible.

- Add return grille (12 X 12) in hall
ceiling.

- Increase duct size feeding kitchen/nook area and 4ft duct board
trunk line for better airflow

- Replace supply register (15) with wide vane grilles,
weather-strip and seal register boots from inside.

Contractor 4: $11,463 total.

4-2 XR17 (17.0, 13.5): 4TTR7048A1, UD2C080G9V4 4PXCCU60AC3HAA,
XL 824

Scope: Build
new supply and return plenums w/ 1 1/2" Owens corning fiberglass duct
board (A coil). Add new drain pan, electrical disconnect @ outdoor unit,
electrical whip, copper fittings, PVC drain line fittings, gas flex/ gas fittings,
exhaust vent, slab as needed per unit specs and city code requirements.

- Install Perfect Fit media filter

-
Transition trunk/branch lines feeding master bed room side and upstairs to new
plenum, remove any hard 90 degree turns to provide better air flow to upstairs
areas.

- Install damper collars on all three flex lines @ front of plenum
to provide a means to adjust air flow

- Increase sizing of flex (8" to 10") to supply
kitchen and nook, remove the distribution box and "Y" off 7" to
nook and 8" to kitchen register to provide better air flow to these areas.

- Replace all owl flex that is broken open @ upstairs attic
(5 drops) & utility (1 drop) with R-6 metallic coated flex ducting.

- Cut in new 12"x12" return filter holder grill at
upstairs hallway w/ 10" flex to return box @ unit.

- Seal all duct work with UL listed metallic tape and mastic
to prevent air leakage.

- Replace supply register (15) with wide vane grilles,
weather-strip and seal register boots from inside.

Just noticed on proposal for Contractor 4 his AHRI # 7014917 does not match the model numbers. AHRI = 4TTR7048A1, UD2C080G9V4 4PXCCU60AC3HAA

Contractor 4: I hope it is just typos (coil is for XR16 proposal) and am awaiting his response.

Model numbers per proposal - > 4TTR7048A1, TUD2C080G9V4 4PXCCU60AC3HAA,