A "good" well trained split system installer can do a creditable job installing M.splits but many charge more out of fear they will be delayed by some odd issue. Truth is an exeptionally talented homeowner can do 75% of the install. If they know electric,they can do everything except connect lines,evacuate,charge and start up. IMO,you have touched on the main reason mini-splits aren't more popular.

I'd say it's the other way around - the US market prefers conventional ducted systems. Installers have limited experience with mini-splits because few people buy them.

Most homeowners have the sense to not try undertaking the installation of stuff like this when they have no experience working with it. You won't find a capable and licensed HVAC contractor willing to do half an installation when the homeowner did the other half. Also, failure to use a factory authorized installer can often void or limit a warranty. Not a good choice for a DIY project.

Did you ping Panasonic, Daikin and Mitsubishi? US brands are getting into it too.

I didn't go to their online sites because I thought Fujitsu had the most experience and might have dealers. I am not in a rush for this but just getting prepared for the day. I thought this forum would be interested in my findings.

I think that most people with experience with the big 4 mentioned would not rank them with extreme differences. There are differences in some engineering approaches, I am sure. I am not really aware of them beyond the fact that I saw a while back that Daikin is messing with brushless DC compressors. There is a lot of difference in how controls are designed and you might find one more convenient than others.

nerdyshopper,

I’m in the same boat as you. I live in a rural community, but
within a larger metropolitan area of over 1,000,000 people. There are many HVAC contractors in the area, but
only a few listed on the Fujitsu and Mitsubishi web sites (none at all on Daikin’s
web site) and none identified as having a great deal of training based on the
rating systems. I have a feeling the web
sites are simply not accurate. One Mitisubish
“Diamond” dealer was listed last year but doesn’t show up now, even though they continue to be the leader in this market. To make matters worse, the local companies don’t
advertise these units, probably because most homeowners never heard of
mini-splits. Interestingly, I went to a
home show over the weekend and a local company had an exhibit of Fujitsu and
Daikin MS. They claim to have installed many Fujitsu and their service men are
trained by Fujitsu, but you’d never know this from their web site or local ads.
If
there are any HVAC wholesale distributors in your area, call and ask if they can
give you the name of contractors who have purchased from them. I was able to
get the name of a few Fujitsu installers from the wholesaler (Security Supply). A friend of mine is getting a Fujitsu soon and I'm waiting to see how it works out for her. It was recommended by a company that did an energy audit of her home. Good luck.

I posted my experiences getting minisplits installed somewhere on here. Long story short is I used two installers off the Fujitsu web site. First one was doing such a bad job I terminated the contract and had him pull all his stuff out, give me all my money back and patch up all the holes in the wall.

Second guy installed, failed inspection, came back with fleet of 9 guys, spent a whole day fixing the first install. Owner came and redid some more stuff. Inspection passed. System still had issues. Everything from wall unit coming out from the wall (the only one I didn't observe because I made sure the first two were screwed into studs). The third unit I went out to walk the dog and they same guy put it into the drywall so it separated. Not draining right so it froze and busted for the second year. Leaking into the wall so I had drywall damage an swelling of a beam over a door. Also had a coolant leak at the outdoor unit once. Had a leak at the ceiling unit once and lost the coolant there also.

So yes, saying the guys on the Fujitsu web site aren't trained is not an understatement.

On the good side I totally love the units now that they work and it has been a couple of years without installation issues rearing their ugly heads.

If you get any type of minisplits installed read the installation manual and follow the installers around to make sure they are abiding by it.

To the OP I would suggest that you contact the Rep in the OR/WA area, Cascade Products and tell them what you have found. I know those folks well and they will take care of you. Every manuf has their own rules and regs to get to top levels with their lines. Frankly, for someone who is busy, it can require a lot of resources to maintain "position" on every manuf site. Do make sure, and you can do this yourself, that your unit is registered back to the factory after install. I was a factory Rep for Fujitsu for about 12 years. Very good equipment when properly installed. Mitsu and Daikin are the others I would consider.

MSHP's are the fastest growing segment of the HVAC industry. Industry estimates are that in 10 years 25% of all system installs will be mini-splits.

Jackfre, what is the target profile of a potential mini-split customer? I'd really be interested to know more about where in the market growth is expected.

My sense is that the demand for all heat pumps isn't likely to surge. With ever rising electrical prices (as nukes and dirty coal plants phase out and expensive renewable sources are brought online) and with the likelihood of continued cheap natural gas, heat pumps (particularly for heating) often don't present an attractive option. When a house already has ducts for heating, a conventional A/C setup is the easiest solution to add A/C or replace an old unit. Also the cheapest.

"Industry estimates" are notorious for being overoptimistic.

Snidely, what I have bee seeing is that over the last few decades the electric heat market has been heavily hit by the gas industry. That has especially been so across the north where the cooling market is softer. With the efficiencies of the mshp's, through rebates the electric utilities are reclaiming that share. It has grown really strongly since the advent of the low operating temp units

The other issue, is that now that there is an good alternative to ducted systems the very poor condition of the existing residential ducted systems will come more to the fore. For instance, there are new duct sealing requirements in the codes. Here in CA the max allowable leakage is 6% on a new or retrofit system. It will take time for the leakage codes to be enforced, but the DOE estimates that the average US residence will loose between 18-42% of its energy in duct losses. The national implications are enormous. I was at the International Builders Show and the Air Conditioning, Heating/Refrigeration Engineers Show in Jan and all the big US manuf were featuring mini-splits. Not theirs, they do not make them. Most are rebranded Gree units, I think. They were right up front in their booths. The problem these unitary manuf have is they can put all the technology they want in the box. Because of the ducting systems they simply can't deliver it.

Where the mini-splits are all ready very strong is in the big commercial and large custom home markets. They are not standard residential systems but Variable Refrigerant Flow systems that can H&C at the same time. If you owned a high rise in NY and had a tenant in one floor of your building move out the new tenant could simply rent that floor and put in their own system for that floor, on that floor and give up very little space and get great efficiency. Mitsu and Daikin are strongest in that field in the US, but many manuf are getting into it and it is very common around the world.

All in all the expectation is that the mshp's will grow strongly. I also think that it is the mshp's that are responsible for the higher efficiency we are seeing from the unitary guys. The DOE forced the 13 seer, but they are having to respond to the 25, 26, 27...evne 33 seer units from the mshp's

Jackfre, are those duct sealing standards for both indoor and outdoor ducts? I wonder about cheap gas slowing down heat pumps affecting MSHP installations. The popularity of open floor plans must have an effect.

Jackfre, with a 25-26-27 seer unit, how many KWHs are consumed to produce 100K btus of heat? I know with our great PGE prices (not), that's $1.20 of gas at the low tier.

I have leaky ducts in a 40 year old house. I tried calling HVAC
contractors to see if any had an interest in a sealing/repair project. None were much interested without a furnace replacement (which I don't need). I'll try again in a few months, it'll be the slow season for them since A/C isn't very prevalent in my coastal area.

Ionized, I am always amazed at the workings of Utilities. As I said, there is a significant rebate presence around the mini-splits to reclaim the heating market lost to gas and oil years ago. Remember the 50's & 60's when the mantra was the "Gold Medallion" home? Total electric! the embrace of that concept, low first cost, led to a huge market in gas conversions. That is the primary market I attacked with the Rinnai Energysavers in New England and we sold a couple hundred thousand of them. I've heated my home with them since '91. In conjunction with the mshp's it is just a great combination. Gas is still the right alternative for heat, but as the compressor bearing technology continues to improve and they get better at hot water it is going to be really interesting going forward. So, today, gas for heat and hot water is the right choice, for me at least. Once cooling gets into the equation the heat side is impacted and we'll have to see where it goes. It's a big market and nothing is going to happen all at once.

On the duct work leakage question of interior/exterior things definitely get murky. The thing is, every system has a personality. The exterior mounted stuff is the worst. The interior systems have substantial problems too. It is fairly common where due to leakage you create different pressure zones (+/-) in a home that can actually increase infiltration into the space.

Snidely, it is difficult to say it is this cost. The output of the units will vary somewhat with temperature. Actually, the Feds don't even know how to accurately determine seer ratings. When I speak with the Japanese Engineers they say the 25's are closer to 35 seer, but we live where we live, so.... 25 it is. I can tell you that in my home here in the dry dry foothills of CA, I heat with my Rinnai EX22 and a dual mshp upstairs. I have a 25 seer 12 and a 23 (?) seer 15 downstairs. I also run a Rinnai tankless for dhw. My 250 gal LP tank lasted 14 months. The house is 2200sq ft. My highest bill to run the whole place peak of winter and summer (well, lights, heat/cool, the works) has been $85 and we do not suffer comfort wise under any circumstances. In the spring/fall shoulder seasons the bill falls to $35-40.

If you are looking for heat, I'd absolutely go with the Rinnai's over the mshp's. From a comfort point, gas is hard to beat. From a technology point with the modulating burner, blower, etc the Rinnai's are the best heating appliance I've seen in 50+ years in the business.

You have a decision to make on your 40 yr old leaky ducting. If you can find someone to do the job, do not pay for it until the system meets the CA requirement of a max of 6% leakage. I spoke with a contractor who, in Clearlake repaired a single story raised ranch with 12 outlets. two men 1.5 days, $2,400. I spoke with another contractor who repaired big home up in Carson City, $11,500. Yikes! When we moved west 4 years ago my duct system was beyond salvation and would have been impossible, due to access issues, to repair. I pulled it all our and took it and the five year old furnace/condensing unit to the dump. with my current combination of the Rinnai's and mishap, I am all zoned, net to the space and comfortable. Oh, and I gained two closets by removing the ductwork and also gained the storage under the staircase. Doing what I did is a REAL step, but you need to evaluate the whole package first, break it down and see what is best for your home. Fun isn't it?

With inside ducts, the pressure differential thing would only come into play if the room to room flow was not adequate to start with or, perhaps if every room has a return and supply from the get go. I have not thought about the latter much. HVAC has become so complicated with all the choices available. Then, on top of that, you need a crystal ball to predict relative energy costs. Yes, I do remember all electric homes marketed during my childhood. There were a couple in the neighborhood that cost an awful lot to heat as I got a little older.

Thanks, jackfre, I was curious. I have no personal interest in making changes, just an interest in knowing more about what you have. The forced air system in my house works fine, it's a large-ish ranch style house in a mild climate area. The heat is completely off all but maybe 4.5 months of the year, and the annual cost is certainly less than $350, even with the ridiculous rates that PG+E charges. The ducts are very accessible in the mostly stand-up hillside "crawlspace".

If I were to decide to get A/C when i get older and crankier, for the maybe 3 weeks a year it would be useful, it would be easy to add the needed hardware at one of the existing furnace locations in the garage. There's plenty of room and that's where the returns and supply connect for 75% of the house.

Good luck, thanks for responding to my question.

To the OP - have you tried Angie'sList or Yelp, or even some of the niche sites like ACDoctor? I know some online retailers of mini splits will try to put you in contact with a local contractor in your area to do the install. You might check ACWholesalers or ComfortUp.