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Sun Lovers in Shade---Shade lovers in Sun?

9 years ago

Have you placed plants in a location contrary to what their tags say and had them thrive?

Specifically Heuchera, some Hosta, Hakonechloa, Bergenia, Acanthus to name a few...I see these thriving in pictures but mine seem to not flourish.

Any others that you've pushed the envelope on?

Could be not enough drainage and/or too much shade--more plants to move!

Thanks for sharing.

Comments (13)

river_crossroads z8b Central Louisiana
9 years ago
For hosta a huge help for me has been the Hosta Library where a figure is listed for sun tolerance.

For H. 'Abiqua Ambrosia' it says 20%:

http://myhosta.net/show/42-Hosta+Abiqua+Ambrosia.htm

For H. 'Stained Glass' it says 80%:

http://myhosta.net/show/4201-Hosta+Stained+Glass.htm

Whereas other sources list these 2 as needing the same light, "Light Shade, Partial to Full Shade." Maybe Stained Glass sometimes does well in shade as well, but for me it does better with more light, just as Hosta Library says!
NHBabs z4b-5a NH
9 years ago
WendyJo, You might want to add a general location to your zone, particularly since zone 8 in WA state is a whole different story than zone 8 in the SE part of the US or zone 8 in England. I know that the genetics of the Heucheras matters to their survival if you are in the SE.

I am far enough north that I find most full shade plants will do just fine in half day sun, though in all day sun Hakonechloa and the charteuse/gold Heucheras burn. Here they do best in morning sun and afternoon shade. Most Hosta can be grown in half day sun here as well IME, and some will do well in almost full sun, though benefit from a bit of shade in the mid to late afternoon. For Hosta I usually do a search on the Hosta forum to see what others experience with a particular variety has been.

Although technically hardy here, Bergenia spends so much of the year looking tattered and worn due to the effects of cold weather on its leaves that I haven't found it worth the space.
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where is the logic that sun might not be sun .. what different iws intensity ... and that is important on heavy water needing plants ... sun in the heat of the day is bad for such.. weak sun at dawn ... when there is no heat.. is still sun ...but not a problem to water lovers .. keep in mind.. many things listed as shade ... are simply shade tolerant ... you dont mention what you are looking at.. so its hard to give any guidance ... e,g. i have a variegated viburham ... in sun its .. did i tell you this already ... its nearly yellow with green highlights ... in full shade .. but for maybe an hour at sunset ... its green with gray and white patches ... they are about the same size.. sop i would conclude lack of direct sun does not greatly impact vigor ... also.. things like rhodie/azalea ... have a fine fibrous root system.. that is usually barely below soil level ... so hot sun on the soil... might cause water shortages in the heat of the day in full hot sun ... and might droop or start showing other signs of stress ... so no full sun ... but a few hours at dawn or dusk would..imo.. be irrelevant ... and in fact.. probably a good thing ... ken
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Nice heucheras almosthooked! I've never saved any seeds nor had one appear in the garden either. I found a site with some good information about growing heuchera. https://www.plantdelights.com/blogs/articles/coral-bells-heuchera-plant-varieties Here is some information from that site: The only downside to Heuchera is that they are short-lived unless they are divided every 3-4 years as the crown becomes woody. Unlike hosta and good wine, heucheras do not get better with age. They like an open, well-aerated soil that has good drainage. Heucheras prefer neutral pH soils and while they will grow fine in slightly acid soils, they will not fair well in extremely acid soils. What Heuchera also will not tolerate is heavy soil combined with winter moisture...both sure killers. A raised bed is best because it will keep the soil well drained and improve air circulation. Heuchera are generally self-sterile and so gardeners who want seed will need to plant more than one species or cultivar. The flowers appear in the summer and the seeds will be ready six weeks after pollination when the seed pods turn brown and split open. The seed can be collected and sown immediately. Germination will occur in 30 days and the seedlings will be ready to pot up by fall. In addition, Heuchera and x Heucherella can be divided. Dig up the three-year-old clumps and pull the rooted offsets apart. The smaller offsets may need to be potted, then replanted in a well-prepared bed. I have done this in both summer and winter with good success. The offsets can also be treated like a stem cutting, and will root easily without any rooting hormone as long as they are protected from desiccation during the rooting process. With a little more care, gardeners may also have success by removing a leaf at the base along with a small piece of stem tissue and rooting the leaf/stem cutting.
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mxk3 z5b_MI
9 years ago
NH Babs: Are you removing the tattered bergenia leaves in the spring? Grooming them makes a difference, they will quickly sprout fresh foliage and should then look good all the way through the next winter.
sherrygirl zone5 N il
9 years ago
I also cut back my bergenia every spring, they always look great after being trimmed. I have red flowering daylilies in 80% shade. They do well and the flowers dont fade.

Sherry
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
9 years ago
all plants need sunlight ...

usually ... when a plant is said to be a shade plant ... it is really about whether the plant can pump enough water.. during the heat of the day .. to survive ...

if the plant can NOT ... then it tends to be called a shade plant ...

a great many plants labeled as such.. are shade TOLERANT ....

the best example of this.. is that ALL hosta in Britian ... are considered full sun plants ... and most the british authors claim such ... there are two reasons for this... the first is that they at at 60 degrees north ... the actual sunlight is considerably lesser in intensity that far north ... compared to most of us in the states.. that are 45 degrees north and less [there is a highway sign in the middle of MI that says we are half way to the north poles .. 45 degrees] .. and this is one reason.. the brits are a rather pasty peeps.. lol ... you probably couldnt tan there if you wanted too ... lol ...

that said... they are also subject to a lot of cloudy weather ... so that even if they plant in full sun ... its rarely ever out.. lol ...

here in the states ... anywhere north of the mason dixon line.. hosta can be full sun plants... especially if your soil can hold enough water during the heat of the day ... as compared to say.. my sand ... the only thing that happens... is that they can start looking ratty ... earlier in the season ....

many of the northern wholesalers ... in fact.. field grow them in full sun [or used to anyway] ... to increase the root masses.. as they really dont care how they will look at harvest ....

on the opposite side ... many of the full sun plants ... are the big flower plants... and if you are going to burn all that energy.. to produce giant flower displays ... you arent going to be growing them in shade... the best example ... is that roses ... the big hybrid Ts ... will not thrive in the shade ... mind you.. they wont die.. they will just grow more green leaves.. rather than flowers ....

when it all boils down ... its not really about what the tag says.. or some resource ... sun .. like many other variables.. is a micro climate issue ... subject to soil.. location ... watering protocol.. etc

there!!! .. more than you ever wanted to know.. lol ... just try it... and let us know.. how it works out in your garden ....

ken
User
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
NHBabs makes a good point. Shade plants will fry down here in Oklahoma in too much sun, even morning sun only exposures in the heat of summer is too much unless its brief early morning sun. Chicks and hens will fry to a crisp in sunny exposures here and many types of sun loving plants will have scorched leaves. On the other hand, many listed as sun plants do quite well in partial sun situations such as dappled shade or only 3 to 4 hours of morning sun, a few will look fine & bloom in even less. I do best pushing the envelope in this direction and have quite good luck with several sun loving plants in surprising amounts of shade -- most salvias, artemisia, echinacea, coreopsis, lantana, winecups etc and several varieties of sun loving shrubs do well. I would imagine since the rays of the sun are brighter and hotter, the shade is also brighter? We don't get hardly any cloudy days once summer set in, fall is mostly bright sun and warm as well. Spring is a roller coaster ride, literally.
peren.all Zone 5a Ontario Canada
9 years ago
Hi WendyJo Great to see you posting!

In your zone Bergenia probably needs more shade/moisture. Here I can grow it even perched up in an elevated position with the slightest bit of shade in the a.m. only.

Ken you are so right. Here is a good illustration of 2 plants that are generally considered woodland plants that are more reliant on the moisture retentiveness of soil as opposed to sun exposure.

These plants are getting sun most of the day in a good compost enriched loam. If you had poor soil and/or were in a warmer zone they would need shade, at least in the p.m.

Rodgersia pinnata 'Elegans' in late May early June with Kirengeshoma palmata on the far right with the maple looking leaves.

Mid to late June

Late September

Here is the Kirengeshoma in September, not the greatest pic but shows the foliage holding up well. These are two of my many non hosta favorites lol!
rouge21_gw (CDN Z5b/6a)
9 years ago
Rodgersia pinnata 'Elegans' in late May early June.

'peren' that is a incredible specimen. (Any idea how old it is?)

But at the same time it makes me realize that so much more often than not I plant my perennials too close together.
purslanegarden
9 years ago
There are a lot of different conditions like the others here have mentioned. IME for my area, I have found that sun-loving plants can grow OK in shade, but not too much of the other way around. So you may get exceptions depending on overall heat, sun exposure, morning sun only, etc but usually shade plants would not tolerate the sun or direct heat as well.

Also keep in mind that putting a sun-plant in shade may allow the plant to live but it won't perform to its best. As a transplant, even if it is a perennial, it may not even return the following year since it has certain light requirements to start growing.
peren.all Zone 5a Ontario Canada
9 years ago
Thanks rouge. The Rodgersia is I believe 8 yrs. old. It is incredible isn't it?

I have a 2 yr. old R. aesculifolia that I am hoping will leap this year. I should be able to plant

R. henrici 'Cherry Blush' this year.

Astilboides tabularis formerly R. tabularis will take a leap this year as well seeing that it will be 3 (or 4) this year. I need R. podophylla and sambucifolia.

Can you tell how much I like the entire genus? LOL! Do you grow any rouge?

It is rare that I do not allow the space for the plants ultimate size. I had a plan for a hosta area that I thought, I will move you after 2 yrs. then you after 3. Since it didn't go according to plan I now have a big job ahead of me and worse yet no hosta is properly highlighted because these giants are all jammed together.

As a side note Hosta & Rodgersia make beautiful companions.
rouge21_gw (CDN Z5b/6a)
9 years ago
I have two young Rodgersia at different locations on our property. (One is "Bronze Peacock" and the other I think is "Fireworks").
peren.all Zone 5a Ontario Canada
9 years ago
Nice rouge! They are both great but Bronze Peacock is so compact. That is really an interesting one.

I hope you will show pics of them this year!
catkinZ8a
Original Author
9 years ago
river, thanks for the scoop on the Hosta Library, I will check the links out!

Thanks, Babs. We don't get super hot her in the PNW. I think I'm in your camp of the *half day sun* thing. I may have taken the shade suggestion too literally! I have lots of deep shade. We're remedying that as we're able.

mx and Sherry, do you cut the Bergenias to the ground? I've seen pics (UK)of them thriving in (seemingly) full sun and they are gorgeous, IMO. Anyone in GW UK gardeners grow them--in sun or shade? Got any pointers? Thanks for chiming in! Camp? Flora? Marlorena?

ken, what can I say, thanks for the awesome reply--it made a lot of sense to me! Good to hear from you.

tex, thanks for weighing in on this. Interesting that the sun lovers do well in your version of shade.

peren, thanks! Your garden is drop dead gorgeous! I have one Rodgersia that is being choked by Alchemilla--must move it and give it room! Thanks so much for sharing!

Hey rouge, I'm guilty of the too close thing, too. I have to laugh at myself when I see examples this in my garden, saying to myself *What was I thinking?* Mind if I ask if you're male or female? Not meant to offend, just curious.

purslane I appreciate your advice, thanks! It's apparent I need to more experimenting.

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