I get what you're going for. You want enough room between sink and range so two people can work in the space at once, but 50" is more than you need there, and 37.5" is probably less than you'll want for your aisle space. That's pretty tight, and my guess is the aisle between your cabinets and range wall on the right is even narrower. And you're going to need space for a fridge and ovens as well. At first glance it looks to me as though you're building your kitchen on the wrong axis. Consider rotating everything 90 degrees, and using all of your available space, instead of scrunching everything into half of it. Just because you have floor to ceiling windows there doesn't mean you can't use that space.

That said, it's tough to offer advice without images and better drawings, even hand drawn sketches. If you can post a little more info, we can be more helpful. Good luck.

So after reading through everything here's what I came up with. There is obviously more to the house but it shouldn't come into play. We have one section of the kitchen were planning to use for our master bathroom which will probably be next, so please disregard that space.
Right now we have a standard 90s kitchen, oak from top to bottom in an l shape, with the sink and dishwasher coming down right where the doors are to the patio towards the pantry. It's got a bar height counter there, and the whole area becomes a dumping ground for things that come in from the yard. It's awful to walk around to bring food outdoors, and we all get stuck in the L, lol. We've got two kiddies under 3 and hopefully more in the future. We bake and cook all the time. I'd like to eliminate anything bar height because with young kids, it's not going to be useful for a long time.
We are planning to remove our upper cabinetry on the range wall and put lower shallow shelves to keep the view open, and also because I'm short and I can't reach anything. Half of those cabinets are empty. We're thinking a bigger island with more drawer and cabinet space. We are hoping to rework a lot of our base cabinets into the Long Island and purchase new doors to reface our cabinets from partial overlay builder special raised panels (eeeehhhh) to full overlay shaker or something else not so busy. Thinking Quartz for the countertop and a light gray for the cabinets. We are planning to stain the wood floors currently there; the floors in the rest of the house need to be refinished as well, but will probably be tackled later.
We need a bigger fridge and freezer. Right now ours is an ancient ge profile and while it's ok, it's thermostat is a little wonky and they also did their measurements wrong so it doesn't exactly fit in the appliance cabinet. We plan to purchase new cabinetry for that appliance wall so it fits in seamlessly with the new toys.
The back half of the kitchen farthest from the front entrance is part of the addition. Where the dining room area ends is where the house used to stop, so the addition added onto the kitchen there, and also added the master bath area and some of the spaces in between there. The new area has a vaulted ceiling, so that back half of the room goes up to 11 feet or so. The 'square' closer to the living and dining area is 8ft like the rest of the house at is original.
I hope this makes sense. Any advice is appreciated. We're savvy DIYers and are trying to do most of this ourselves, but we aren't stubborn.. Hah
With the current little ones we're hesitant to pour money into things that may not pay for themselves before they are demolished by our gremlins.
This maybe our forever home. This will not be our final renovation. There is a LOT to do (or should I say UNdo?).
So, let me have it. How's my pipe dream?! Thanks!!!

Here's our current kitchen standing I front of the pantry. I'm keeping it real here, people. We already pulled off two of the cabinets and part of the corian countertop and splash by the right side entry.

And yes, our poinsettias are still alive from Christmas.

the pic of your kitchen right above this post isn't viewable. too small, too dark. Can you adjust it and repost?

the layout up a bit is too tiny to read any wording on it. Can't tell if any measurements are on it. We need measurements to help you and a LO we can see. I don't think anyone with 20/20 could read what's on it. I could be wrong cause I certainly don't have 20/20 vision. Maybe I did when I started reading here about 4 yrs ago... 4 more yrs and I'll be totally blind. If I'm alive... (ok, I really didn't have 20/20 4 yrs ago!)

Measurements of all walls, windows and doors would help. Do you plan to have a table in the empty space in front of the floor-to-ceiling windows? Do you plan to have a range and a separate wall oven?

Are you thinking that the fridge/oven/mw will be on the same wall, similar to these, or separated with counter between them?

I agree that you need less space in the aisle between island and range, and more for seating--you could reduce the range aisle to 44". In addition, I would make the island 43" deep (24" for cabinets + 18" overhang + 1" overhang on sink side), and add the 5" into the seating aisle. Instead of 37" for stools, you'd then have ap. 48".

Thanks mama goose!

Thanks everyone. Sorry the pics aren't Better, the girls give me a hard time so I have to do everything on my iPad...

The first image you've got there is pretty much exactly what we have now on that wall. I hate the mini counter space corners because we just end up piling stuff up in there. They are not big enough to want to use vs the island or cooktop side. We are definitely keeping a separate wall oven and a cook top because we don't like the idea of an oven at the floor with the kids and pets. We are probably going to switch from gas to electric and do the microwave wall oven combo.

The wall that those appliances are on is structural as is the wall where the cooktop is, and the wall opposite of that butts up against the basement stairs so we can't change those without major, major work.

so we could
A) widen both doorways, currently pocket doors, so to give an dea of how much, it would be another doors' worth of space.

B) shift the doorway near the front door to allow for cabinetry along the basement wall, but this would eliminate an island wider than 24in, for sure, or maybe even an island altogether...

Or C) close off either door. I worry about this option because although it's better for the kitchen side, if you're in the dining room, you've got to walk alllll the way around, more than 10 feet, to get to the kitchen door. It will also box in the dining table even more. If you close the other doorway, near the front door, then it's a pretty long walk again from the bedroom or bathroom to the kitchen.

We have a full table with seating for 8 in the living/dining room.
The kids are often in the living room playing so I think I like the idea of opening the doorway a touch in the dining room, so I can see in there better.

I was thinking of putting a stand alone upright freezer in the corner where the useless counter is next to the wall oven, and replacing the current fridge with a stand alone fridge unit.we would need to shift things over a bit but I don't think it's much of an issue because we have an extra 220v line nearby in the basement unused and we would switch from gas anyway. Obviously we would need the widened doorway here too to accommodate the opening of the freezer.

Im not sure what to do in that space in the back without alienating it from the rest of the house. The wall heaters on the windowed wall are the only heat in the room, so if we remove it we've got even more work! The list is getting longer and longer!

I know this is a terrible picture so if it's not good enough I understand...but it's the best I can do right now. This is taken from the pantry with the basement wall on the right. Front entry is straight ahead, dining room through the door on the left, and backdoor and yard to the left of that. Thank you!!

Maybe you posted measurements but I'm missing them? Could you take this part of your diagram and insert the dimensions?

I rarely disagree with mamagoose but I advise that you use a table, buffet, chest of drawers, something to mimic the island. We did this and our working aisle really needs to be at least 52", prefer 54-55". DH is your typical bull in a china shop and the extra clearance makes me feel a lot more comfortable when working back to back. I'd glad take the extra step to have that breathing room. You may be fine with 44" but I really think people should test it out first before deciding.

I really appreciate the responses.

I read through the 31 rules and I'm torn. That space outside of the work triangle is going to be the main passageway esp for the kids in and out scouring the pantry. The triangle seems right as far as dimensions go regardless of how we split the aisles and island size, so that's good. DH is our primary cook (woot woot) but I'm also in there a lot cleaning up after him and fixing things quick for the kids, or his delicious leftovers.. Lol. On holidays or any time we are both in there, we are functional with our current 40" but it's tight, especially with a baby on my hip. Forget it if the cat runs through or toddler is doing laps around the island, lol

Since that walkway is also the first thing you're seeing from the entry by the front door, which is also pretty much in your face when you come into the house altogether, I'm afraid it will feel crowded. We don't want to go crazy spending but at the same time we don't want to bother renovating and needing to undo later or spend money towards a renovation we will trash In a few years. Fyi our cabinets are all in great working order, just really ugly and dated.

I'm open to any suggestions, even if it's totally different from what I've suggested. Maybe this pic will help more? The red marks walls that cannot come down (boo).

It's buried in the posts above, so just to say again, the windows on the far wall start about 2 ft off of the ground and have baseboard heating under them. The lowers are casement and they have larger fixed windows above them that do not open. If we DID put cabinetry there, we would have no functioning windows in the room and would have to install heat somewhere else, too. (I know, I know...)

Thank you for all the additional info. If I understand correctly, you have no need of a separate table in the area in front of the heaters and windows. Have you considered an island/table combo, something like this, but without the backless stools (which don't have enough knee space to be comfortable):

The island part could be long enough to house your sink, DW, and prep space. Without the need for seating on the back side of the island, the cooking aisle can stay wide enough for two cooks (or cook and helper), and the island itself can be narrower, leaving more room for traffic aisle. Funkycamper has won me over--with the sink and cooktop back-to-back, I see the wisdom in a wider work aisle.

When you decide on dimensions for the island/table, you can tweak the placement of cooktop, sink, DW, and trash, to make sure that all doors open without overlapping.

In the new pics of your current kitchen, I can see that you already have the fridge and ovens m/l in the configuration that I posted above, so you don't plan to change that wall significantly?

Will your cabinet run on the cooktop wall be ap 10' long? Have you considered a prep sink on the end closer to the fridge? That would give you primary prep on that wall, with secondary prep on the island. The cooktop could be pushed toward the other end of the run, so that it and the clean-up sink are no longer back-to-back.

I'm imagining something like this very rudimentary illustration:

If the island is 36" deep, on the back side you would have room for storage, shelves for cookbooks, or shallow cabinets for snack items for the kids. Also, although I didn't draw it, the island should be moved down enough to allow easy access to fridge.

Other versions of island/table:

And another version of the layout:

I really like mamagoose's suggestions except for the attached table to the island. To me, it makes more sense and gives you more flexible use of your space if you end the island with the dish storage drawer. Don't do any island seating at all. You don't have the depth. Simply have a separate kitchen table in that space that can be moved around as needed, expanded with leaves for special events if needed, whatever.

The rest of mamagoose's plan with the layout of appliances is a very good use of space, and gives you good work flow. I can't improve upon it.

Thank you, funkycamper. I agree--if seating at an island isn't a deal-breaker, the space in front of the windows is the most logical and functional place for a separate table. It would leave a more convenient path to the back door from the front/hallway, and I think it would be a nice view when entering the front door. Even though I think the separate table is more functional, I was salivating over the idea of that long, lovely counter, accessible from all sides. What a great space to make cookies, serve a buffet, spread noodles to dry.

Lol, my family will pile anything on any convenient horizontal surface,
so keeping junk off the table, or off an extended island, might take a
little effort. But your kids are young--it's too late to train mine. ;)

Yeah, we all lust for more expansive counters! :) A separate table can serve in many of the same capacities. A buffet can be set up on it where people can actually circle the table getting their food without having to get into the work area of the kitchen. Kids can be decorating cookies while dinner is being cooked without being near the cook area. Yada yada. So, yeah, a separate table is more functional. If more counter space might be wanted occasionally on the island itself, I would put a flip-up counter on the end. That's what I'm planning for the end of my own peninsula.

You bring up a good point regarding landing spaces for all those things (school papers, bags, etc.). Jomonster8u, where does your family normally enter the house and do you have a good place planned for these items? Is it somewhere besides the kitchen or does the kitchen need to have something planned? Planning ahead for this and having a place for each person in the household, if possible, will make life much easier for you. Lucky folks have a separate mudroom with that type of storage although adequate solutions can be included in kitchens or foyer entries or whatever. The best location is where people normally enter.

I have a long (10.5') skinny island with no seating and like the OP, the back side of the island serves as a walkway to keep everyone out of my work area. I love this set up. Guests often use the back side of the island for putting together dishes that they have brought to share. Or they stand there and chat with me. I don't have enough room to have a table in the kitchen, which for us is not a problem, but if table will fit in with a longish island, I think the set up would work well.

Diane

Good points, funkycamper. Jomonster, if you decide to skip the seating at the island, and opt for shelves or shallow cabinets on the back side instead, each family member could be assigned a shelf/cabinet for papers, lunchbox, backpack, etc. (when the time comes for the kiddies), or for keys and cellphone/laptop for adults. In that case, charging stations could be built in, in the design phase. Ummm, did you say somewhere that this is just a facelift? ;)

Hahaha you guys are amazing. Thank you SO very much for all of your ideas. You have helped us so greatly.

We have a small coat closet by the front door before the kitchen we plan to open up for a "mud room" for keys, a bench, book bag hooks, etc. you are right in thinking about all of it now albeit it is early, I'm on it! We also have a dresser turned buffet on the opposite side of where the appliances are (the structural wall) and that's where we put the mail and empty our pockets. I have a little bowl formDH to put everything in. We do use the front door as our main entry. The room next to our living/dining room is the former garage converted, not by us, obviously... It was a one car and the transformation left a lot to be desired. There is a big step down as well into the room. After that, is the actual garage, which is more steps down. Bringing in groceries through that way is a huge pain, forget about if I have the kids with me (when do I not have the kids with me?????).

I love the idea of the seating at the end of the room, it makes so much sense to have it in line with the island, And I had never thought of it. I have to see when we remove the peninsula with the sink and dw in it currently how it feels. I would love to have the table as part of the island so we could spill over into it when we do holidays and things, or put food on it to carry out when we are doing bbqs and things outdoors. I'm not convinced the space is too small for it but I certainly will opt for a table if need be. The natural end I think for the island would be in line with the cooktop wall, by the patio doors, but from there to the windows there's a good 7' at least.

I feel like if we continue the island a bit, say just for seating for 4 as in the pic mama goose found, I could also stick a pantry or something in the far corner to the left of the sliding doors without it feeling alienated.

Once the space is cleared out more I will use tape and check it out. on a side note, what do you guys do while you renovate for food? Do you just order out or pick up? DH wants to get a little electric griddle...lol

As long as the table part of the island, if we go that way, doesn't impede traffic flow from the patio doors or from the work triangle to the pantry, we are good, right? Right now we have literally all of our food in our pantry but I think with a bigger island and after the reorganization, we are going to have another spot for regularly used stuff. This will help free room in there for things less frequently used, which is what it should be for, I think. As for a buffet, or setting things out with guests, etc. I would probably use our dining room table just because it's huge and in the living room. Maybe I should move the dining room table into the kitchen to get a feel for how a big island would be once we take everything out, lol DH is going to love that idea! Haha

I'm so excited to know (sort of) what works. Thank you again,

(Here's a link to the google page for 'gardenweb temporary kitchens'.) There have been some ingenious solutions over the years. The most recent that I recall is laughable's:

(Laughablemoments' thread.)

I love laughablemoment's temporary kitchen more than some permanent kitchens, lol.

To reiterate why I think you should be thinking a separate table vs. an extension of the island for one big island. You are creating an inflexible space that way. You will be unable to use the room in other ways for certain events/situations as the island is a massive, immovable object. If you purchase the right table, you could abut it to the end of the island and achieve the same thing but that table is movable. I know I previously mentioned some of this but to repeat:

If you're hosting a big gathering and need to set up a buffet, pulling that table out from the island to the center of the room allows people to circle the entire table to fill their plates without them having to cross into the work area of the kitchen. Keeping people out of any work space at a time like that is invaluable, imho.

You could also more easily separate where people load up at a buffet. For example, the island could be used for beverages while the table is used for food. This also helps control traffic.

If you're having a kid's party, the table can also be moved away from the work space. Let's say you're hosting a few friends over to help make Christmas cookies. You could be prepping and baking the cookies and, once cooled, the kids can be over at the table, removed from the work space and hot items, to ice and decorate the cookies.

What if they want to play a game and the table is simply in the way? Then it can be moved. With an island, that's not possible.

I can think of dozens of scenarios where a table will just make so much more sense than one big, massive, immovable island. I can think of numerous times during the years raising kids where an island would have prevented or, at least, made it much harder to do some of the fun things we did with our kids while they were growing up.

I'm just all for increasing the flexible use of space rather than limiting flexibility. Rant over. :)

My ears are ringing...LOL Thanks for the kind words about our temp. kitchen Mamagoose and Funkycamper. : )

Moving a table in to see how an island will feel is a great idea, jomonster8u. That's been a helpful tactic for when we've tried to figure out kitchen plans. Folding tables on bed risers are a lightweight option.

I agree with Funky that I'd prefer a table that could abut the island most of the time, but that you could pull away from the island when needed. If you do some backless stools for the table seating, you can push them under the table and still use the table surface as a prep area without the stools in your way (See, mine have backs and they are no good for prepping around!). My kids have LOVED having the dresser in the picture posted above as a kitchen counter. It's just right for the shorter set in our family. It 's the perfect height for them for cutting up snacks, buttering toast, etc. I couldn't figure out how to incorporate a lower counter in my final kitchen design for them. I'm a little sad about that, and I think they'll be disappointed. At least they'll grow. : )

jomonster, we were without a kitchen (no stove, oven, or sink) for 2-1/2 months. Luckily it was in the summer, so we used the grill a lot. We used small appliances for everything else: microwave, electric griddle, crock pot, rice cooker, toaster, waffle iron, bread maker. We didn't eat out any more than we do with a full kitchen (2 or 3 times a month). We did get pretty good at cooking pizza on the grill! The fridge was in the living room; we set up metal shelves and an extra table in the dining room to store food, dishes, paper plates.

A couple of times I just had to use an oven, but since we're good friends with our neighbors, we could use theirs.