Yep, Ingrid, you really are the Queen of second thoughts...and taking a lesson from your book, I have been doing some serious re-evaluating of my own. Faced with possible transplanting fully mature roses, then having to put said transplants into intensive care for months, it is astonishing what roses are suddenly dispensable. Out goes unwieldy climbers such as Meg, Perpetually Yours, Jasmina, Nahema. Out goes slightly sickly types such as the much praised Buff Beauty (or Pallid Ugly in my garden) and, with the least regret of all goes a handful of lovely, but weedy Harkness roses (Jaqueline du Pre, Cardinal Hume and (gasp) the hulthemias - despite being born a mere stone's throw away, My regime is a million miles away from that practiced by the Harkness family since my Harkness roses have always been a blackspot nightmare of spindliness. . Austins - meh. Ghislaine de Feligonde - dieback, several Renasissance roses - one month of beauty, 5 months of disgrace....and so on. I was often blind to these faults (having bad eyesight and the ability of selective squinting) as well as the attention span of a mayfly and miniature bank account So yes, criteria based on moveability, health and suitability (there is no way a rose like Nahema can look anything other than ridiculous in a wood!) means that two thirds of my small collection are just not going to survive a future cull.

I bought Cl La France several times (and she was expensive), but she just never does well for me. She couldn't ever find any vigor, darnit. A few old HTs or climbing HTs were the same, but she especially bugged me because I wanted her to work in particular.

Wow, I just received White Pet and I'm in zone 9b. What don't you like, Ingrid? Do the blooms fry? The roses in my garden that I don't like are the ones that didn't survive our brutal summer: Blue for You, Honey Bouquet, and Firefighter. These are roses are beautiful, but I can admire them in other people's gardens. I need roses that can take the heat. It is survival of the fittest! Some of my favorites that did well in my dry heat are Saint Patrick, Marriotta, Tequila Supreme.

I like that camp, queen of second thoughts, unfortunately so true and not something I'm proud of. It all began here; I very rarely discarded roses before because most of them did well in prior gardens with decent soil and without hellish solar radiation. It certainly makes sense for you to leave behind what you don't love rather than facing the task of mass transplanting.

Jasmine, there's nothing wrong with White Pet and I don't remember it frying particularly, but to be honest there aren't too many polyanthas that really appeal to me. I like my Mr. Bluebird because of its coloring and also Blue Mist (aka Lavender Mist) which unfortunately really deteriorated during the drought. I think the white color of the flowers and their small size just aren't my thing, but that's just me. Many people love White Pet, and it's possible that as it matures more I'll grow more fond of it. It's not going anywhere, since it's healthy and fits perfectly in its small space.

But, Ingrid -- 'Mr. Bluebird' isn't a Polyantha at all!

He is 'Old Blush' X 'Old Blush' -- so he is eminently a China Rose. Have you tried growing 'Old Blush'? He's great in TX heat (tho your low humidity might be a problem).

As to roses I regret? Though many (FAR too many) roses have come in and gone out, I don't really regret any of them, because every one of them taught me something.

(And even if they are complete failures, they can make great kindling.)

Mr. Bluebird looks beautiful. I don't know the difference between a China or a Polyantha, but I intend to Google it to find out :)

I've decided to get rid of my knockouts bc unless I deadhead they just look bad and it takes forever to dead head one so I am replacing with roses that I know I love. I'm figuring i'm not getting any younger so i'm definitely changing out to roses I love. I bought a couple last year that looked beautiful in the store but during the summer they seemed to turn a horrid color so out those suckers went. Lifes to short to live with something that looked like them. grrrrrrr

I regretted buying Octavus Weld because I changed my mind about what I wanted in that part of the garden (Ingrid may be the Queen of second thoughts, but I'm King of musical plants).

But asit turned out it was actually a mislabeled Anna Olivier, which I'm quite happy with.

I am itching to offload Yellow Buttons at the minute. It's a super healthy plant with quite nice flowers, but it has no scent so it's got to go. I'm also palming off Leander to a workmate. Nice enough plant but I have Strawberry Hill and he just can't compete against that.

Sorry to hear about your Miss Atwood and Hoagg House, two on my with list......might have to try for a Jesse baby and trade :)

...other plants yes, but not roses.... I've always found them to be fairly easy to dispose of, should you have a change of heart...
...bluebells on the other hand....

hoovb----I love your comment. I guess I will never have an empty garden.

Ugh, my garden is infested with spanish bluebells. I'd like to plant some native bluebells in the shady areas, but I daren't because of the interbreeding issue.
As for roses, I wish I hadn't bought cheap body bag ht's my first year of gardening, they've never grown well and I don't really like their habits. I'm slowly weeding them out, but replant disorder you know? Peace went this winter, as did a peachy orange pink climber that might have been Compassion - whatever it was it was a fiend for mildew, ugh.
I suppose the bright side of that first year or so is that my first experiments were on non beloved roses, so the one or two that i lost were not a big deal.

A long time ago and in a land not so far away (across the street actually), I tried Heritage and was told it was too hot here for it. I chucked it its first year. Now I wished I had kept it a couple of years to see how it really was after a few years when it wasn't a baby. It sure was a pretty rose in the cooler weather.

Then I believed the hype from Heirloom when they were the first to introduce Jude the Obscure to the US. Only place you could get it was from them. Ugh! Horrible rose. Terrible in our heat. Sparce bloomer. Tall and lanky. Vicious thorns. No scent. Will gladly shovel prune that one after 14 years or so that I have had it.

I also have a pink powderpuff that will go this year too. Pretty much a once bloomer and has thorns that will stab you over and over again. Nice flowers when you get them which isn't often.

I am looking forward to getting my replacements in the ground soon.

I'm of the same mind as Jeri and hoovb. Many a rose has come and gone, but each one of them was a unique and frequently a valuable experience.

Kippy, Hoag House Cream is relatively slow to build (but not the slowest in my experience, by a long shot!). I think it benefits greatly from being left to grow in a pot until a strong root system develops before being put in the ground. I have two of them, both with healthy (well, except for some brown edges during drought conditions) if not overly abundant foliage and very short intervals between flushes and I love them. The pics below are from roughly 5-year old plants, roughly 3.5' tall and wide. The bush is of typical hybrid tea form and the flowers last very well, being especially heat tolerant.

Very pretty Cats! I think it can be ever hard to wait on a plant; you have seen me complain about Lady Hillingdon, but she is finally growing and looking good but still very small in comparison.

Jeri, you're right, Mr. Bluebird is an Old Blush cross which Ralph Moore actually marketed as a miniature, but to me it just doesn't look like a China. I've had Old Blush in a former garden but the constant mildew made me not grow it again.

catspa, thank you for the gorgeous pictures, the flowers are to die for. I should have grown HHC in a pot since mine is a single stick, about a foot tall, after a year and a half. I never contemplated getting rid of it because I love the early hybrid teas and was determined to wait it out. Since the last rain it's developed little leaf buds so it should fill out somewhat this year. Your pictures have made me more determined than ever to be patient, and I'm glad you mentioned that it's heat-tolerant.

Kippy, I wouldn't give up on Miss Atwood. She was wonderful until this last summer when the drought really made itself felt in my garden, but you're in a better location and don't have my horrible soil and intense solar radiation. With the rains this winter (it's raining right now), I hope she'll rally and be her old self again. Ironically, the bush Lady Hillingdon grew fairly quickly from a band but I no longer have it since the flowers lasted for about five minutes. I do have Cl. Lady Hillingdon which of course has a lot more flowers so it doesn't matter as much that they're rather fleeting. I've had the climber for four years and because of transplanting and some mistakes I made it's still very small and I've never let it bloom. It's made some growth this spring and I hope it's finally ready to take off.

My biggest regret is that in the past I discarded roses too soon, not giving them enough time to settle in and become acclimated. I also realize now that I didn't mulch them properly which would have given them a better chance to withstand my less than optimal conditions.

Several kinds did not impress and were removed last year. One that lingers yet has failed to charm is 'Polka', it too will probably be given a new home - a depiction I just read the other day in a rose book fit with my experience. I don't even like the coloring of the flowers, which are also scattered, somewhat droopy in aspect and seem to shatter rapidly.

It is one I should have liked in the manner of 'Flamingo' (the supposed Hybrid Rugosa that doesn't look like it at all), another which never became pleasing to me after being planted here. As I was thinking with 'Polka' - until I saw it in the book - the feeling was that it just needed to get farther along and then it would start to shine. But a much more advanced one encountered in a local botanical garden also didn't look like I wanted it to either, with the same floppy flowers and see through habit.

Ingrid -- Old Blush mildewed for me, too -- but it is absolutely do die for, in TX. I thought it might be better for you.

You know, a hybridizer gets to select the class in which he/she registers a rose. Mr. Moore called Mr. Bluebird a Miniature -- because NO ONE bought Chinas.

That's certainly understandable, but it is, nevertheless, as China as China can be, by "pedigree."

To me, 'Mr. Bluebird' looks like it had something else as a pollen-parent. I wonder if something else got into it, and Ralph simply assumed that an OP seedling was a self.

Back to the original question -- no, there isn't a rose I regret having bought. This garden is still too new to determine that something should be shoveled, but even so, I'd never have known something didn't work here until I tried it.

:-)

~Christopher

IIRC, Mr. Bluebird was the first rose that Mr. Moore actually actively pollinated -- so I think he knew. Remember, Old Blush itself is ancient, and very probably of quite mixed pedigree itself. So, yeah, there are probably other, and different, roses behind it -- tho we don't know what they were.

Recessive genes are amazing things. I own three Dalmatian dogs with long coats. Their parents were both short-coated, but carried a rare recessive gene for long hair, and our dogs inherited that. And my grandfather's olive-skinned, black-haired parents produced children with red hair and blue-gray eyes.

I think Jeri put it well! Even though I have bought roses that didn't do well here at all -Abe Darby, Baron Girod de l'Ain, Angel Face, et alii- in the long run, I'm glad I tried them because I coveted those roses for one reason or another. It's better to know that something definitely won't succeed than to always wonder, "What if?" I wouldn't have come across some of my pleasant surprises without the gambles.

Jay

I understand it's possible, but another possibility was discussed....

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1664774/the-origins-of-mr-bluebird

:-)

~Christopher

I pretty much have Jeri's attitude, even the lousy ones were a learning experience. The first one, and probably the worst, that comes to mind is Snowfire. What a gawd awful, hellaciously thorny, diseased riddled plant for the very few lousy blooms, most of which balled, it put out each season. I wouldn't have kept it as long as I did except Al picked it out and thought it was so pretty. But it taught me about shovel pruning and that was a lesson I needed to learn since I have a tendency to let any old thing live if it makes it through winter. I'm much better now about digging out the dogs and tossing them with no regrets!

Pink pet, climbing. Horifically spiny, sprawls everywhere aggressively and has had perhaps three blooms. I didn't do any research on it--bought it because Pink Pet is so good here. I learned a hard lesson because it's going to be a bear to remove.

Pom Pon de Paris. While the tiny blooms themselves up close are delightful, the plant itself has no presence in the garden. It just seems to disappear unless you're right up on it. Also, it's very thorny. It's thrown itself into a fig tree, so I'm leaving it, but I wouldn't buy it again.

Happy, climbing. It does not like my soil. I'm using acidic fertilizer on it per Kim's advice. The plant is doing better, but it has not had one single bloom. It's about to meet Mr. Shovel.

I'll go the dark and stormy route and say: sometimes all of them.

Many, too many, and perhaps, as bellegallica said, "sometimes all of them". Here is the list of shame: Party Dress, a horrid pink from Kordes..lesson learned... don't buy something described as a florist rose, at least in my dry, hot area. Only the deer loved those balled up wads of petals when they appeared on rare occasions. Ditto for Caramel Antique, also a florist rose from Kordes. Beautiful blooms that don't ball, but blooms are rare, and the deer regard them as rose crack. Prima Donna, anyone? Try Pink Traviata, a Meilland three bloom wonder that can't even take zone 7 winters. She's gone. How about Sisters Fairy Tale (aka Home and Garden), another Kordes loser whose growth habit resembles a paralyzed spider with terrible winter die back, contrary to the received wisdom that German roses are cold hardy. Blueberry Hill will have to go this spring because I don't think it can take another hot summer of frying delicate lavender blooms, followed by those terrible zone 7 winters-ha. Finally, for me the heart breaker, consigning my two huge, healthy Stephens' Big Purple, totally green to the tips and pushing out leaves before the other bed mates have even begun--but Big Purple doesn't want to bloom--and the blooms are lovely when they appear. My gardening friends don't want them, and this week I have to dig those beautiful plants up and toss them. It's killing me...like losing children, sort of. What a wimp I am. But I'm learning some painful lessons. Diane

I regret some of the 56 roses i have dug up over the past 20 years in my present garden. But not many. I got my first 100 roses from local nurseries where I got good help from the staff. I had little practical experience of growing roses but I had read a lot so I realized that I got sound advice. I remember Darren from Australia with particular fondness, now cemetery administrator in a town not far from here. I have forgiven him for his instant garden makeover program on TV, much as I dislike this kind of program. He chose my first 40 roses, all of them hardy old varieties and most of them are still the backbone of my garden.

After this sensible beginning I became smitten with the collector's bug and started buying roses from abroad and from Swedish mail order businesses, roses I knew little about apart from a pretty picture or an interesting story. I wanted to try roses from every class that can be grown in my climate and some that can't. The majority of the roses I lost were bourbons, remontants, noisettes and tender HTs. Many climbers couldn't take my conditions. I also culled many I didn't like the look of although they did well for me. I have accepted the limitations of my garden and my climate but roses I miss are Gloire de Dijon (my scanned photo), Mme Isaac Pereire and Souvenir de Béranger, the latter for the silly reason that it was my only souvenir from the visit to Sangerhausen.

I am regretting planting all the fruit trees I have in my yard. Since they started bearing, it's been disappointment every year with the fruit being infested with fruit fly maggots, all despite my best attempts at organic fruit fly management. I think this winter they're all coming out, save for one or two, and they're being replaced with roses and other ornamentals. It's not worth the water, fertilizer or heartache to get a few maggoty fruit that get thrown to the chooks anyway. Better to have lots of cutting roses I think.

Oh and I will be taking the opportunity to wipe out the pygmy sun rose. What an absolute bee symathizing, plant smothering, abkle-twisting pest.

Adam...what is a pygmy sun rose? Sounds awful..like some of the nasty ground covers I've done battle with. Diane

http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantab/apteniacord.htm

Ingrid, you may be Queen of Second Thoughts, but you certainly get us all talking, so I think you should be Queen of Conversation as well!

Adam, I had the pygmy sun rose, got rid of it early TG. Sympathise with you over your fruit trees, cockatoos get every last piece from mine, except for the lemon, which has a sticky orange goo oozing from them. Oh, and I do have a few avocados, as the cockatoos seem to have decided to give up on them.

As for roses I regret - a long list that I mainly regret because they didn't do well for me. Said it before, but my deepest regret is Rose Delizy, closely followed by Hugo Roller.

One that I'm not crazy about, hesitate to say it, as she's so popular, is Mrs Oakley Fisher. I thought she'd look good next to Mutabilis, but she just looks insipid. And a few Australian bred roses that I'll give a bit longer to see if they improve - Borderer, Mrs Fred Danks ( now there's an appealing name) Golden Dawn - lovely blooms on the last, but major BS. And Adelaide D'Orleons, which I planted to climb up a tree, but all she wants to do is fall down. The most work of any of my roses for 2 weeks of unexciting blooms.

Trish.

Mustbnuts,

I have had really good luck with Heritage in Vegas....it seems to do fine in the heat. The one at my old house was almost 5'. Hopefully the new one I planted last May in the new garden will continue to do well!

Trish, what was wrong with Hugo?

Yep. There are some particularly memorable bad ones--

Europeana. Looked beautiful in books, but in my garden mildewed to the point it looked like a flocked Xmas tree. Red flowers in the middle of the fluff was not attractive. Worst mildewer I'd ever seen until,

Napoleon. Everything mildews on this rose, canes, leaves, and buds.:( In contention with Europeana for the most diseased-looking rose I've ever seen. He can look better, but only if I HEAVILY fertilize (think 20+ times more than any other rose I have) and water him, which is not something that works in my low-water/low-feed garden. I've tried to give Napoleon away, but no one will take him. He looks pretty wretched, but even so I have a hard time killing any rose.

Archduke Charles. A beauty elsewhere but not in my garden. I gave him a prominent position in the flower beds, but he rusted to the point I couldn't stand all that orange on the leaves. Plus he came in looking beautiful with those glorious big flowers that changed color. Not happy here and began growing backwards, not blooming much, and with the flowers shrinking in size. Shovel pruned, potted, and given away.

Tipsy Imperial Concubine. Pretty pictures online. Not in my garden. The word "tipsy" in the name was fitting as she grew very lopsided. Flowers all had brown edges. Not a pretty sight, but worst of all was the blackspot. In fact this rose was my introduction to blackspot (and defoliation). All the more frustrating as 15 to 20 feet away was a rose that was said to be a martyr to blackspot, R. foetida 'Persiana' which was clean as a whistle yet TIP repeatedly defoliated those spotty leaves. Two years in a row was enough for me. Shovel-pruned, potted, and given away.

Niles Cochet/Barcelona? Niles Cochet was beautiful at the Stagecoach Inn gardens, so I decided to buy him at auction. What I brought home bloomed with very dark red and black-tinted flowers with a strong damask scent. Flowers held strongly upright. No objection to those colors or fragrance, even though I was trying to get something entirely different. The issue was disease, and this rose was a champ. I didn't know it was possible for a rose to get mildew, rust, and blackspot at the same time, but this one managed it. Ugh. I think the likely identity for the rose I bought was the hybrid tea Barcelona, rather than Niles Cochet (the seller did have Barcelona, and tags can get inadvertently mixed up). Never looked good enough for me to plant. Given away in a pot.

Adam, Hugo Roller balled and burnt for me, as did Rosette Delizy. Wonderful bloom when that didn't happen, and the best perfume of a Tea I've come across. Might be OK in your climate, which I would think is much drier and less humid than the northern beaches.

And bellegallica9, I have to agree!

Trish.

I agree with Jeri that getting the wrong roses is educational, so I don't mind. Usually mistakes die and I don't have to suffer their presence. I do remember being awfully irritated with 'Perle des Jardins', which was vigorous, diseased, and non-flowering, a highly unusual combination for me. One of my few current regrets is 'Parade'-- not coincidentally, also one of my few modern roses. It grows well, blooms well, is healthy, but I don't much like it. To my eyes it lacks grace and, really, beauty. I prefer my once-blooming old roses and my Teas and Chinas, when I can get the latter to grow.

The only one I actually _regret_ is Mermaid. It was DH's pick, he prefers the 'singles' and it looked soooo pretty in the display garden.

While it's described as a 'vigorous' plant, I'd say 'vicious' is closer to the truth. It's not the vigor I mind; Climbing Pinkie is just as vigorous and it's a delight. What makes Mermaid intolerable are those *censored* thorns! We've already used a machete, a flame thrower might be next, lol.

What a great thread! One of the roses that I regret getting is Sharifah Asma, since it hasn't done well at all and is a very small, runty rose that seldom blooms. :( Souvenir De La Malmaison has also been surprisingly puny - perhaps it just needs a few years. On the other hand, Louise Odier is vigorous even in a pot! Btw, I've been on this forum before as RabbitRabbit, but since Houzz took over, I'm using my Houzz name instead. :)

Bunny, where do you live and what are your gardening conditions? I ask because 'Sharifa Asma' is about the only Austin that does well in my temperate Mediterranean, heavy soil, no-summer-water garden. It took years to build up to its current four feet or so, but is sturdy and reliable, and very, very fragrant--the main reason I like it.

There are roses I have given away they were all a learning experience I have never really purchased a rose I regretted!

Hi Melissa, I live in California near San Francisco and probably have a similar sort of Mediterranean climate - very dry in the summer with heavy clay soil. My other Austin roses have done quite well and are disease free in my no spray garden. Perhaps it's the location - I have Sharifa Asma in part shade as the sun here is so strong that it burned many of my Austins and I had to move them around. Sharifa Asma is supposed to be somewhat shade tolerant according to a few online sources so I thought it would do better. Maybe I need to give it a few years. The few flowers that I get smell wonderful!

Every big box store bare root I ever bought, when I did know better but had impatient dreams. Time, money and effort wasted. And Janet, a sick and droopy Austin.

titian, thank you for admitting you don't care for Mrs. Oakley Fisher. I had her in a previous garden and found her to be ho-hum. I adore Mutabilis with its multiple lovely colors, but for me the Mrs. was definitely lacking a certain something. I never told a soul because everyone here seems to love her, but you've given me courage. There's safety in numbers....

I can't say that I regret buying any rose. I can say that I regretted not having bought a hardier rose because some does not survive the cold winters up here. Roses do get more pricier these days but if I really hated it, I think I can afford to get rid of it. I will pretend that it is an annual. I know many people spend way more money on their annuals than I do on roses. At least that is how I convince myself and my bank account.

I'm looking for roses to give away so I can add new ones. :) Quietness is pretty and healthy but I don't feel compelled to keep it because I have so many light pink Austin roses that are my favorites so no other light pinks can compete. Lady Ashe is another I don't love, not sure why. Nothing wrong with it, very healthy in fact. Mrs. B.R. Cant became HUGE very quickly and flowered often which I liked, but vicious thorns and because of the size of the bush, can be problematic with kids playing nearby. I cut it completely down thinking I'd get rid of it. Apparently, she has no desire to leave because I see new basal canes coming up! Crepuscule is planted on a privacy screen and hasn't really bloomed which is disappointing. I'm giving it another year or so to get going before removing it. However, the Buff Beauty I planted at the same time has been INCREDIBLE! I love it. Yves Saint Laurent is a healthy plant with pretty blooms, but almost looks plastic it's so perfect and the color is hard to blend with my other plants. Heritage hasn't done very well for me so I'm giving it another year to show her stuff before letting her try in someone else's garden. It may be the location near a dogwood tree she doesn't like. I prefer Sceptre D'Isle and Sharifa Asma over Heritage.