Wolf M series vs Gaggenau vs Bluestar electric OVENS
dietitian
9 years ago
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Wolf DF vs. Thermador Pro Grand DF vs. Miele DF vs. BlueStar ranges
Comments (26)Sorry, just took a look at this thread again and noticed your question...by the time I got to Miele, I had decided on induction, so I didn't give the Miele an actual test drive. I did give it a pretty thorough inspection at the Miele place, though, and thought it was a very sexy range -- and the performance seemed very similar to the Wolf dual fuel. I say that b/c the Miele also has the stacked burners, which I really liked, but the BTUs are higher than Wolf (which top out at around 16k, I believe -- Miele was closer to 20k or so -- I can't quite remember). The Miele ovens on the 48" range were very nice -- the smaller one is a speed oven, and the bigger one is a regular convection. The speed oven wasn't a big plus for me personally, since I really wanted a steam oven as a second oven, but there are people on this forum who love their speed ovens. One thing I really liked about the Miele oven, which Wolf doesn't have, is the burst of steam option, which is great for baking (you can program up to 3 bursts of steam for up to 6 min. each during cooking). I didn't care that much about the MasterChef options on Miele, but again, others love these. At any rate, the Miele seemed very similar to the Wolf, I liked the steam option on the oven better and liked the Miele burners better (also, if you're interested in a grill, theirs was excellent and seemed very similar to the Wolf, which I think is the best in the business). If I had stuck with a range, I would have been very tempted by the Miele....See More30" Wolf GR304 vs 30" BlueStar RCS vs 30" BlueStar RNB
Comments (6)What is a "local safety officer"? What do you mean "a bunch of back and forth" with your "local safety officer and Wolf"? What prompted you to use your CO meter to test the levels? They are employed by our BC safety Authority who are the regulators for all regulated work, gas and electrical and such. As a licensed gas fitter I hold my ticket through them and they are the final say when it comes to appliance safety. Permits and approvals for equipment go through them. I chatted at length with him about the stove and he did agree we can’t do anything because it meets ANSI standards being below 800ppm, but he did say he wouldn’t have it in his house. His advice to me was if Wolf won’t do anything to then adjust the burner input by under firing the appliance to bring the CO back inline. I went to Wolf with this information and they said ‘based on your requirements I don’t think Wolf products will be right for you, would you consider a buy back’. Checking CO is very common here in Canada especially when commissioning an appliance. I didn’t mention the CO alarm going off because it never went off, however it did show peak levels in the 15-19ppm range after cooking for a short period of time. Enough to make me concerned with a pregnant wife and 2 yr old. This is what will happen if you in a room where the CO levels are 800 ppm. The ANSI standards are referring to the CO levels in the air coming out of the range vent. 800 ppm air coming out of the vent does not translate to a room concentration of 800 ppm. Especially if you have your ventilation on. Now, if you were getting 250-300 ppm where the cook was standing, that indicates a concentration of way more than 800 ppm out of the vent, and thus a violation of ANSI standards. Either way, those readings were way too high and Wolf's response was poor. Yes, I agree, somewhat. The stove should never be operating at the ANSI levels, your house would build up to a dangerous level of CO over time ie. When cooking a turkey for hours. Our utility will actually shut down any gas range over 540ppm during normal operation. Also they shutdown any other appliance if its over 250ppm while operating. I agree we need ANSI standards but as new homes get built tighter and with less makeup air having a cooking appliance pumping 800ppm at the vent/flue is insane. Consider this regulation was put in place in 1926, buildings have changed considerably since then. So, what happened when you tried adjusting it? Was 250-300 ppm the lowest it would go? That would surprise me, I have adjusted several gas ranges and have usually been able to get them down to 30-40 ppm from as high as 500 ppm. I knew this question would pop up, but yes I went through the full range of what is reasonable on a brand new appliance. Below is what I went through, to try and reduce the CO: Tested inlet pressure, adjusted within 1”wc of manifold pressure. ‘Wolf recommends having inlet pressure within 1” for proper operation’ – no change Checked flip top regulator and it was set to natural gas Checked manifold pressure on stove it was at 5”wc Verified orifice was correct as per spec sheet supplied by Wolf Adjusted air shutter, no change was actually higher and this was the lowest I was able to get the stove to run at CO tests were done after 10-15 minutes of operation and the burners were warm Clocked meter to verify burner input is correct Verified no blockage in burner tube Verified all secondary air ports were free and clear House is still very drafty, so not a lack of air within the house The only thing I never did was under fire it, as I didn't want to go down that road on a brand new piece of equipment. Wolf blew me away with their service and willingness to make a customer happy. From a cooking standpoint however, it will be Bluestar for us....See MoreMiele Steam Plus vs Wolf M series.....thoughts
Comments (3)Wolf has traditionally had problems with the blue enamel of their ovens cracking and leaving bits of glass all over your food. I am not sure if the M series is also prone to this failure. But given what I have been reading on Houzz, I'd be weary to buy any Wolf ovens for a while. It sounds as if this problem has been known for years and still isn't 100% fixed. Miele has a huge selection of different and honestly amazing ovens. They have ovens with steam injection, they have combination steam ovens (which are similar, but which give you much finer control over the amount of humidity), they have pure steam ovens, and they have speed ovens (microwave combined with convection oven). My best suggestion would be to find a Miele experience center and take a evening cooking class on their equipment. It does a great job at demonstrating the different features and allows you to figure out what's important to you. IMHO, it's really hard to beat the Miele CSO right now (especially, if you buy the plumbed version). As far as full-size ovens are concerned, I feel less clear on what to pick -- other than being afraid of Wolf's quality. There is at least one Houzz'er who loves their electric Bluestar wall oven. But as far as I can tell, it's "just" an oven. No particular gimmicks, such as steam injection. But that's not necessarily a problem for the big oven, if you were planning on getting a CSO anyway....See MoreWall oven Gaggenau vs Bluestar
Comments (5)Like any ovens there are features on each one that might make a difference to him. One thing to look at first is the size of the racks. How big of space will he need? I think that the BS holds a full commercial sheet. Read he manuals very carefully to see how these ovens work. If there is anyway you can see these live and bake in them do it. BlueStar electric https://www.bluestarcooking.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/BlueStar-EWO-Use-Care-Manual-750162-8-11-17-Merged.pdf The BS has a baking stone in the bottom and the oven cannot be used without it. This will add to the preheat time. They have intensified the preheat so they warn against putting any food in until it is preheated. I would never do any baking until an oven is preheated and stabilized but sometimes I put casseroles or something else in when I start the oven. This is from the manual. Everytime the heating elements come on, the convection fan comes on. You can never shut it off completely. Gaggenau is a very different oven. This is a video showing how to use it. https://youtu.be/IEjZViE4hig Gaggenau 400 https://media3.gaggenau.com/Documents/9000866756_K.pdf Gaggenau does recommend convection for cakes but I am not a fan of using it for cakes unless that is what you are already using and you have recipes that work. The convection changes the direction of heat coming to the cake. It is also superficially drying to the cake so inhibits starch gelatinization. Most cake recipes were developed with heat coming from the bottom. They talk about using convection first and then if it is getting too done turn it off. I do just the opposite. Standard bake then add convection after the cake rises if I want more browning. The video also says that convection keeps moisture in. No it does not. Some people might get that idea because the faster browning you have with more air movement makes things look done before they are over cooked on the inside. The Gaggenau also has 4 elements. It has a hidden top element as well as a broil element. The Gaggenau has a steep learning curve. See page 11,12 for all of the modes it has. I would also look at some of the portable commercial deck ovens. Some people put them on a cart....See Moredietitian
9 years agoUrbicoastal
9 years agodietitian
9 years agoUrbicoastal
9 years agosemsf
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agodietitian
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