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kizasugondo

Something is wrong with my Echeveria 'Perle Von Nurnberg'.

9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago

The leaf is kinda soft and wrinkly. is it underwatered? or overwatering? what should i do with it?

Comments (30)

  • 9 years ago

    It seems to have lost roots judging by the wrinkly leaves. It DOES need almost full sun and a dry, high draining mix. Check the soil as indicated by deva33, what condition is the mix in? staying wet?


    kizasugondo thanked aztcqn
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  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i use 40% soil 50% gravel 10% coco peat i guess. i put it in almost full sun, i havent watered it in a long time, so yesterday i spray it. i thought it was underwatered i hope it'll go back to normal. how often do you water your perle von nunberg?

  • 9 years ago

    The roots can also disappear from too little watering as well. There is a balancing of water and types of soil. The condition of the plant is loss of roots from too much water or not enough. Make sure whatever mix you use it drains well (doesn't remain soggy), first of all, then judge the watering from there.


    kizasugondo thanked aztcqn
  • 9 years ago

    thank you all ! i will try my best :)


  • 9 years ago

    I don't know if that is a good soil mix. I'm not sure that gravel would give you the proper aeration like perlite does. Even though the perlite soil mix isn't the best option, I think it would be better than the mix you are currently using. Just my thought.

    To answer your questions I water mine about once every 3 weeks in the winter and every 10 days or so in the summer. I also just repotted it into gritty mix so it'll be watered more often now

    kizasugondo thanked deva33 Z8 Atlanta
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    sadly i havent found perlite :(. what about pumice? which one is better for soil? perlite or pumice? i read somewhere that we can use kitty litter instead of perlite, is it okay to use kitty litter??

  • 9 years ago

    Anything that creates/preserves tiny air pockets in soil is helpful. Quite expensive here, but I would otherwise gladly use pumice. Whatever you use, don't pack soil tightly, try to water gently the first few times so soil doesn't shift & compact. An unglazed clay pot also helps oxygen get to roots, soil to dry much more quickly.
    Kitty litter is too varied to discuss generally.

    I have this plant also. It shares a smallish plastic pot with several other plants and needs a drink about twice per week, if the sun has been out. Kind of hiding behind the Sansevieria (to get as much direct light as possible.) Top R corner is another kind of Echeveria called 'Gray Red.'

    kizasugondo thanked Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
  • 9 years ago

    I agree with Tiffany, stay away from the kitty litter!

    Pumice would probably be good. The best mix, in my experience, is Als Gritty Mix. Equal parts barks fines, chicken grit/tiny pieces of granite, and turface. You can find more info on it on this forum if you do a search for "Als gritty mix" but if you can at least mix some perlite or pumice in with the C&S soil that will be better than just C&S soil

    kizasugondo thanked deva33 Z8 Atlanta
  • 9 years ago

    It's unusual, but it is possible to under water a succulent. With your mix in such a small, terra cotta pot, in full sun, it would likely need water frequently. I don't know what you mean by not watering it "in a long time," but my suspicion is that your plant is actually too dry. Terra cotta dries very fast, plus the pot is very small; your mix is lean, and it's in full sun. It will dehydrate fast under those conditions, but the only way you'll know whether it is over watered or under watered is to check the mix. Dig down a couple inches with your finger. Is it dry? Bone dry? Then too little water is the problem. If it is damp a couple of inches down, then something else is going on. I'm betting it's too dry.


    I don't like your mix. I think you'll do better with a 50:50 mix of soil and pumice. I use it for numerous succulents and they're quite happy. In that pot, in full sun, in temperatures between 60 and 80, it'll probably need water once, or maybe twice a week with a 50:50 mix. When it's warmer in the summer and it's actively growing, that same pot and a 50:50 pumice to soil mix might need water twice as often. Straight pumice will even work, but you'll need to water it even more frequently.


    I like pumice for succulents, but it needs to be the right size. Screen it so your final product is between about 1/8 and 1/4 inch. If your pumice is larger, and you're using it straight, it just won't hold enough water if it's larger than that. You also don't want it to be too fine. You mentioned cat litter. Keep your grain size from getting smaller than average size clay cat litter (not the scoopable stuff). I wouldn't use cat litter. I've heard of people using it, but it's just clay. Clay holds a lot of water, compacts over time, makes a lot of silt which suffocates roots, etc. I haven't tried it for planting, but I can't imagine that it would work well. If you have pumice, you'll be better off with it.

    If your Echeveria's roots are gone, it will take some time for it to grow new ones. Get it out of direct sun while it does that, and watch that it isn't allowed to stay wet, or dry out completely. Every time it goes bone dry, its roots die back. However, if it is left wet with no roots, it can't take up water and it will rot. Since it is already dehydrated (whether from dry soil or root-death), it's very vulnerable right now.


    Let me know what you find going on in the soil and roots, and what temperature range it is growing in (day/night temps) and we'll figure out what your next step should be.



    kizasugondo thanked kwie2011
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    thank you all !! you guys have been so helpful. im still trying to find pumice or perlite here. i havent found it yet and here we dont have cacti soil. the temperature here is 30 c - 33 c day / 26c - 28 c at night i guess. i live in Indonesia. now i mist the echeveria everyday to bring back the roots to life, because last time i checked i think the roots are dry and brown, hopefully it'll grow back if i mist it everyday. i'll keep you guys updated :)

  • 9 years ago

    idk if misting will do anything? you'd have to mist pretty heavily to get the soil wet enough and most ppl try and avoid wetting the rosettes when watering bc that can cause rot as well.....i'd give it a really good soak and then let the soil dry out before watering next if I were you c:

    kizasugondo thanked k8 (7b, NJ)
  • 9 years ago

    I agree with K8. Misting won't help, and will likely cause rot. Echeveria can't take up water through their leaves, and you can't mist soil enough in your temperatures to make any difference.

    If you don't have appropriate soil amendments, just dig down into the soil and check for dampness. If the soil isn't damp a couple of inches down, then it needs water. Soak the pot in a bowl of water for 5 to 15 minutes or until the soil stops bubbling. You need to soak it because when soil gets completely dry, it becomes hydrophobic and won't absorb water (like how some sponges or chamois cloths won't work unless soaked first). Once the soil is soaked, set it in bright light but with minimal or no direct sun, and check the soil a couple of times per week to be sure it's not drying out completely. I believe you're going to have to water it more often from now on. How long are your days right now? Echeveria are winter dormant, so yours is probably about ready to come out of dormancy. In terra cotta, in direct sun, and 35 degrees centigrade or more, you're better off with straight potting soil. It will dry out fast. You'll probably need to water it once a week under those circumstances but it depends on your humidity, how fast it's growing, what the soil is like, and just how much strong sun it gets.


    I'm about 90% certain it won't survive with what you're currently doing. I'm afraid you're going to have to make a bigger change.


  • 9 years ago

    that's a good idea to soak the roots. thank you for the tips :)

  • 9 years ago

    thank you kwie2011 for the tips ! i will try my best, i'll keep you guys updated. wish me luck :D


  • PRO
    9 years ago

    We grow and rooted Escherichia (gibbifloras, perla von nurnberg, neon bright and many others) in a mix that consist of 65 perlite, 20% coir 10% soil, 5% silica rocks. Our growing environment is tropical (Southeast Florida) 100% grow outside no cover all year long. When you re-pot perla von nurnberg make sure you let any broken roots heal first. Also, if the environment changes such as when you first purchase an echeveria plant they will go into shock and the bottom leaves may suffer. The thicker the leaves of an echeveria the less noticeable the plant shock when transplanting. I would remove any bad leaves and not water the plant for 1 week. If the plant is showing too much stem you can cut off the top and replant the in 2 weeks.


    kizasugondo thanked AdeniumRose Company LLC
  • 9 years ago

    I'm having the same problem with a Perle Von Nurnberg I got about a month ago. It looks almost identical to the photo with the original post. Were you able to revive your plant? What was the solution?

  • 9 years ago

    apparently mine does not look good, im sure its under watered, i'll try to cut it later. because it does not have roots anymore. so hopefully it'll work. i'll give you an update later :)

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I never knew perla von nurnberg will lose it roots due to under watering. I always thought these plants are drought tolerant breeds of succulents that could endure tough arid conditions. I just gave mine some water this morning to continuously stimulate the roots to grow, just in case.

    Kizasugondo, Indonesia is a very humid country with warm tropical climates. I can't advise you much on how to water and how often, because clearly your plant has lost its roots from under watering and watering schedule depends on the soil that you use.

    Since you mentioned you plan to cut it and re-grow the roots, you need to make sure to let it callous and dry over for a few days after you cut, and keep the under stem in a dark condition, and place the plant in a bright shade location. Roots should grow back, albeit slowly. You also need to make sure there is sufficient the moisture level needs to be right to encourage roots growth too. So you definitely need to fix your soil situation before you do anything.

    These guys essentially need LOADS of sunlight/light; mine for some reason are variegating. Before I re-potted it, root growth was slow. I currently up-ing the fertilizer intake and see if there are any changes.

    -Bernard

  • 9 years ago

    #1. Kiza, don't cut away fleshy leaves or stem right now. The plant has water stored in the leaves and stem. Those leaves are shriveled, but there is still some water in them. The plant needs that water to grow roots. If you cut away living parts of the plant, you're just taking away more water and further stressing it. Keep it barely moist and let it recover. Since you first reported this problem 3 months ago, it should be doing much better by now if you followed my advice.


    #2. Bernard, Echeveria are adapted to dry habitats, but even they have limits. This plant was just pushed beyond its limits. As for yours, are you sure it isn't sunburned? I haven't seen a variegated version of Perle Von Nurnberg. Is the plant new, or have you recently put it in more sun? Perhaps it's some type of variegation, but I'd check conditions and be certain it isn't becoming bleached from too much sun. Even sun tolerant succulents must be slowly acclimated to direct sunshine or they can burn.

  • 9 years ago

    Kwie, I was pretty sure my perle Von numberg is not a variegated species when I bought it. The plant is definitely not new either, it was bought a couple of months ago. Along with other echeverias, it had a full month adapting into more light. In fact, it looked more wrinkly initially when it was in a partial shade. It is not until I moved it to a south facing window, it's leaves started growing upwards with new growth. It started showing paler colors more recently. Do you think this is a result of sunburnt? What's interesting is the other echeverias in the same pot are all showing signs of lacking light. It gets close to 6-8 hours of sunlight each day behind the window.

  • 9 years ago

    Interesting that the other Echeveria seem to not be getting enough light. What are they doing that makes you think that? Have you had them longer than the Perl?


    I'd consider a plant you've had for just 2 months very new. In just two months, this time of year, a winter-dormant succulent like Echeveria probably hasn't had time to establish a good root system in the new mix you've put it in, so it will be very susceptible to drought until it's established, which probably won't be until midsummer for this species.


    My own Perl opens up flat for more light, and closes up like its trying to make a fist when it's getting too much direct sun for the amount of water it's getting. It could be that yours is too dry for that amount of sun, especially since it isn't yet established, and appears to be planted in gritty mix (Al's recipe?). In my experience, gritty mix dries dangerously fast. In 60 degrees and partial shade in western Oregon, I have to water my gritty mix plants at LEAST twice weekly. It is quite a chore to keep them all watered in such a porous mix. The nice thing about grit is that it's pretty much impossible to over-water a plant, even a succulent. It's very easy to under-water them though. Because of this, I'd recommend more frequent watering. You can also check the grit by pouring some into your hand to see if it's dry. You might even pour off enough of the top of the soil to get a look at whether it has any established roots. I'm betting it doesn't. I presume you washed all the old soil from the roots before transplanting it, right? As long as your mix is porous (water pours right through), and it has good drainage holes, water away. You might also provide a little shade until it's established.



  • 9 years ago
    Kwie - Thanks for being so thorough with you questions and answers, it really helps me to learn more about my plant. I got my E PvN along with a nodulosa and a few Imbricatas. I started repotting them all in a terranium which was strongly advised against by a lot of the growers here. Hence the repot - see photos

    I would consider my nodulosa leggy as you can see it reach for more light. But they are definitely doing better compared to previously.

    And yes you're right, I'm using the gritty mix; screened. I was experimenting with my watering regime by cutting it back to once a week, and all my plants now are showing signs of underwatering. I used to water them once every 2 days, and was afraid I might overwater. Turns out I think the mix needs some acclimatizing too. I might consider giving it more shade, but I worry the other plants might not be happy with it. The light color variation is probably a sign of combined underwatering and overly sufficient sunlight. I'm gonna try tweaking the water first, and go by one variable at a time.
  • 9 years ago

    it looks to me like all the plants in the rectangle dish are thirsty, the Perl being the most affected. Is the glass container different plants, or is that what you moved them from? If those are the same plants, the Perl has reabsorbed many lower leaves, which removes any doubt about it being thirsty. That first contIner, though lacking drain holes, has the advantage of letting you see whether the mix is damp or there is any standing water.


    I just have a small phone screen to view the photo, but I'm not sure I see any etiolated plants except possibly the one behind the flowers in the glass dish. However, I'm not familiar with the species, so I don't know how it should look. In all the others, I just see thirsty plants.


    I think you have a good plan. BTW, I moved my thirsty Perl to a small dish of perlite on a heat source and it immediately fleshed out again, despite having just a few roots. As long as it's warm enough, it handles quite a lot of water just fine. That's where I'll keep it until it has good roots, then I'll replant it in a soil/pumice mix rather than grit.

  • 9 years ago

    Kizasugondo, sorry for hijacking your post. I promise this is the last about my plants.

    Kwie - The plants from the Glass Container are the same ones, except for the kalanchoes in the middle. I've taken another photo this morning to show the health of the plants currently. You can see the nodulosa - the one with red edges is getting leggy; perhaps it needs more sun than the other Echeverias.

    I definitely had cleaned the roots before repotting them; and as you can see the other plants are growing fairly well except for my PvN. For now, I'll leave them in the gritty mix, don't want to stress the plants further with more repotting. Just have to adjust my watering habit now; but as well not go too crazy drowning them too much. The weather is still in the process of warming up a fair bit..





  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok, I can see it in the side view. It could be growing (and etiolating) faster because it has established roots, so it has the energy to do so.


    I don't know if the planter has drainage, but if it does, you can water every couple of days, and if your worried about water pooling in the bottom, just give it one good down/up jerk to knock any excess water to the drain holes. Different story if there's no drainage. Also, water it with warm water. As long as you have good drain holes, you won't over-water in that mix. I know Echeveria are winter-dormant, but I don't know whether different species and hybrids might vary a bit in growing season. Could be that some naturally come out of dormancy a little earlier than others.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yup, it's a bonsai pot with multiple drainage holes. I usually water with filtered water; so it's an added hassle to warm it up. I'll probably water when it's sunny and warm, and let nature do it's thing. I think it always take a bit of getting used to when plants are being repotted - establishing watering habits/temperature and the knowledge of root growth in each plant.

    I might try the submerging method to water and see how that goes.

  • 9 years ago

    Anyone have any cuttings they are willing to share..? I'm new to succulents, I have bought a large variety of succulents.. Can not find the perle von nurnberg for the life of me!! :/ especially the variegated ones :/

  • 9 years ago

    Cynthia Ann - I would be willinng to share a leaf or two. I have a variety of other succulents I can share too. You can look at my page, under idea books to see some of my collection. Some are not in a state to share, but most are.

  • 9 years ago

    Awesome!! Thank you :) I can pay for the shipping costs.. :)