Wow Stush, I've never seen these before, even in pictures. I guess these are sports that occur here and there around the world, and are stable enough that they reproduce true and end up in collections. That said, I'm fairly certain that Juan Chahinian for many years was producing variegates of many, many species with chemicals and perhaps radiation. So it's possible someone else may be doing this, possibly in Thailand, Indonesia, or even Brazil.

Don't blame you for having them on your wish list, they are indeed beautiful.

I just today discovered a German website called Sanseverix.com, do you know it? Some of the best photos for identification that I've seen, most are fairly close-up and well photo'ed. Click on all the tabs at the top so you don't miss any pics. I copied and pasted several descriptions in German on Google's translation site, very interesting stuff. I think most of the collector's sources were from Ernst Specks, and some from Alan Butler's Vivaio Brookside.

Russ

Stush, my post above was referencing the Moonshine's you posted, didn't see the other pics below them until now. I'm a huge fan of Seibert and the one Chris has is outstanding, as you said. Mine, the one that threw a bunch of Golden Hahnii's, was more like yours with muted striping. I'm amazed that you actually found it in a big box store. Did you spot it mixed among a bunch of regular Hahnii's, or were there many Seibert's to chose from?? Your Seibert's look very well grown, I'll follow your suggestions above regarding sulfur and superphosphate. I generally mix a little lime and bone meal in mixes prior to potting, but I'll try your additions.

Thanks, Russ

Wow, lime will raise the ph level to where Sans don't like it. They will not be able to take up nutrients from the soil. Lower it and see the results. Sans like some where between 5.5 to 6.5 to grow their best. Fungus however loves higher ph and lower the ph will kill most. That' why things don't rot in peat bogs. Watch your water. Most water is over chlorinated. Best to use a common fish tank water conditioner to remove the chlorine. Knowing this, I am too stupid or lazy to following my own advise. Well, I just got my Clivia seeds in from China. Got to go plant them.

Stush

Hello all! Having trouble with this new format but got signed in. I do love the look of those variegated 'Moonshines'! Tiffany I will have to look at your album. romango2 you have some great plants over there! Russ it is GREAT to see you posting here again! Stush of course it is always great to "see" you and your posts. I propagated a lot of those 'Siebert's' from Stush last summer....gave a bunch away and unfortunately some of the remainders were in too cool and dark from lack of space and rotted. My fault as it seems to be a very easy cultivar. I have one very good plant though still with some pups I could share Russ if you are interested. Hey Russ do you still grow the cylindrica x kirkii pulchra? The one I got from you many many years ago is very tall and just produced its first pup. Very strange plant! Russ I also have a senagambica variegated but I think you prefer the straight species overall (?).

Hi Stush, thanks for correcting me on the lime! Not sure what I've been thinking on that, probably crossed over from my aroids which like acid mixes. I'll have to go back and redo the few sans I've repotted with the small amount of lime. Sans don't seem to mind peat moss, and I know it's acid. I can grow good sans in peat moss, ground pine bark, and perlite, which is the mix I have used for most everything for years. I've been moving toward more gritty mixes for sans, and without peat.

I try to use rain water when I can, I catch it off the roof in a big plastic fish pond and transfer it to milk cartons. That said, my water usually isn't heavy on the chlorine, at least I can't smell it like I can in the next town north.

Hey Chris, glad you are here! I've been hibernating this winter but spring is almost here and I feel a bit more energized. I saw the Seibert you grew, extraordinary amount of color in the midrib and stunningly beautiful. Yes, I'm absolutely interested in a Seibert, and any other sans not on my list. I'm not a 'species snob', I collect any and all, so a senegambica variegated would be great.

I'm really bummed that I've lost my last White Striped Giant which was from Alice Waidhofer, I don't suppose I sent that to you by chance??

Let me know in the future if you have serious space issues in the winter. If sans are rare enough to be worth the postage to send here rather than lose them, you can always mail to me and I'll send back in the spring. Definitely warmer here than New Jersey.

I do still grow the cylindrica v. cylindrica X kirkii v. pulchra, but don't think any of mine are as large as yours. You do grow a mean sans. What is strange about it? I know it has a light purplish blush at the base of the stems, which is different. I think it gets that from the 'pulchra' side of the cross. Can you post a pic?

Incidently, that philo I wasn't sure about did turn out to be P. oligospermum, and has grown well this winter on my kitchen windowsill. I was able to root the top and eventually cut the base away, so I have a backup. I'm stoked! Much appreciated for sharing.

Later, Russ

I have 'White Striped Giant'....nearly lost hat one two years ago but coming back now. I think my plant originated from Mike L but it is the same cultivar and I can probably share a smaller pup. May not be a showpiece but something to get you started back. I will try to get you a box sooner than later so they have all Spring and summer to establish and bulk up for you.

I will try to get a pic of that cylindrical v cylindrical x kirkii v. pulchra for you. It is still mostly the one stem/rosette but the leaves are very tall and thin and also seem wavy along with the bit of color. Certainly stands out!

Romano is your 'Moonshine' variegated like the one Stush showed in the photo above?? That is a beautiful beautiful plant I would like to grow one day. Not the Green lines but the beautiful and random light variegation.

No rush on WSG, Chris. I shared my clone with many people and I haven't asked those I'm still in contact with yet. I know what happened, I was always seeing the many Manolyn's and Siam Silver's that I have so never noticed that WSG was disappearing. Odd that no empty pots ever showed up, so that's a mystery. Speaking of those two, I see no difference in them whatsoever. Siam is supposed to be free of the 'rust' so prevalent on Manolyn, but it's not.

Looking forward to seeing a big cyl X pulchra, I actually thought it would be a beefy one rather than narrow. I think I have one that spent the winter outside, I'll see how tall it is and send a pic if it's worthy.

Not sure about your 'Romano' comment, I've not grown or seen one in person. Maybe there's one on my list with a similar name? All those Moonshine variegates are knockouts. If you don't have guineensis/metallica San Remo, it's a beauty and might be worthy of space at your place altho it does get tall. My largest is about two feet. Bright yellow color fades to green with age, but that takes months and months. I'll post a pic. Stush, you might also be interested.

Russ

'Romano' was supposed to be for "Romango2" up above. Sorry about that !!

I saw that variegated Moonshine on that Indonesia Nursery that I lost all the money on. I did purchased several of them at only $5 each and was going to give you one, but as things work out. We never got any.

thanks for the thought Stush and it is a shame that fell through at a loss!
Neat looking plant I think and reasonable size! Russ I don't see 'Midnight Shine' on your list either(?).

Wow Chris, that cyl X pulchra is amazing looking! Crooked leaves! And is that an actual fan rather than leaves in a spiral? So what is the footage on longest leaf, so I can get some perspective on size.

Russ

Chris, I was poking around looking for soil mixes and came across this article about Dr. Jerry Barad in New Jersey who operates Gardens of Valley View. Do you know of him or visited his place?

http://burgersonion.blogspot.com/2009/07/jerry-barads-53rd-open-house.html

I don't have Midnight Shine, Chris. Had to Google it to see what it is. Looks like a larger version of Jade Dwarf Marginated, would I be right on that? In any case, if you have an extra I'd be glad to have it. Again, anything not on my list I would appreciate, but let me know what I have for trade that you want.

I noticed both J&J Cactus in Midwest City OK and this Dr Barad use a mix starting with Metromix 366. Then they mix in Turface, crushed granite, perlite,. JJ also throws in Osmocote 13-13-13. Metromix is either peat or coir based, but no mention of adjusting for pH in their recipes.

Actually our friend Norma posted Dr Barad's info here several years ago, which led me to the blogspot above.

Stush, I'm thinking I'd better leave pH alone since I know diddly about it. Did some research last night and got very confused as to how to treat alkalinity. I know aroids like a peaty, higher acid mix, but succulent mix pH's are confounding me.

Best, Russ

Russ- The leaves are actually spiraled, just hard to tell from the photo. The tallest leaf is just under 3'. I will send you a 'Mindnight Shine' pup. My original was from Mike L and it is among my favorites. When well grown, the dark leaves are beautiful and dark with just the contrasting light edge.
My mixes change with each planting. I usually do use a commercial cactus potting mix as a base but I like to add additional perlite, course sand, some garden soil, sometimes a pinch of bonemeal, a handful of compost, eye of newt.......

Russ- I am busy at work but had a minute and there is a break in the horribly cold temps which will only last a day. Anyway, look for FedEx to drop off a small box tomorrow (Thursday). I will be very busy the next two weeks and the weather may/will be cold again.

Thanks Chris!! I'll be out of town most of tomorrow, hopefully they won't leave it in the sun. I'll leave a note on my door. Much appreciated.

Here's pics of my tallest S. metallica/guineensis San Remo. Leaves about 2.5 ft, have been this color since at least mid-last summer. They'll slowly fade to green eventually. Leaf cuts revert to metallica.

I have extras if you, Stush, or others here could use one.

Russ

What is sun? What is warmth?? Another 8" of snow coming tonight LOL! Small box and not "show specimens" but should get you some of your missing cultivars. That San Remo is nice and admittedly not what I expected. I thought the entire leaf started yellow on that cultivar and slowly greened up. I did not expect the green striping. Do you have a photo of your S. t. 'Sunrise'?

Same here weather wise. The 12" of snow from a week ago just melted, and Mother Nature is getting to dump on us again.

Russ, please earmark one of 'San Remo' for me. I lost the one you sent a few year's ago.

I am not a fan of Guineensis. I lost a S. guineensis variegated. Slowly died after two years. Only three leaves per stolen. I am into trifascifica. Very common but so am I.

Winter doesn't let go very soon in NJ, Chris. I put out a note to Fedex to pitch the box under the garage door, not to leave in sun. Hopefully that will happen, supposed to be high 80s tomorrow and no cold in sight for a week. Thanks a bunch Chris.

My Sunrise is not showy, maybe my clone is a poor one. This leaf may develop some more color over time, but it will be muted and not bright. This one was sitting on the back porch, I'll find another couple of plants and see if they're any brighter.

Stush, pics below are of a variegated sans that I originally thought was guineensis variegata but my label now says trifasciata Craigii. Can't remember the evolution of that change so now I'm considering it an unidentified. A sure way to find out it's native origin is to grow a plant from a leaf cutting and see what grows out, and I have a leaf cut and drying already. I have two small plants of this, very slow-growing. It does resemble your guineensis variegata. Pics and descriptions in Chahinian's Trifasciata book don't help me ID this. You can see a very narrow green edge on the close-up, an identifying factor between Craigii and Aurea. The latter apparently doesn't have this edge.

Grubworm, I can send you a San Remo in the spring, just remind me. Where are you?

Later, Russ

Russ,

Thanks! I thought you would recognize me by my user name. I'm Shirley in Kentucky.

Not 90 here today lol. Photo from my window.... I included a variegated masoniana in the photo.

It's getting down to -0 tonight with 4 inches of snow in my driveway. Great.

Russ, I hate to say this but mine was purchased as S. tri. 'Craigii, which I wished it was. I was the one who determined it was guineensis variegata. Mine would not even have the max of 3 leaves to a stolen. My picture was used many times thru out the internet. Even when looking for S.g. var. it would show my picture. I guess either photobucket or Garden Web lent them out (which I don't care).

For my money, the best is still S. tri. Forescate and S. tri. Futura 'Asahi' as being the best. Also I can't grow them. Just living but not growing if you know what I mean. I had this problem for years with S. tri. Golden Hahnii but now it seems with new stock it is doing well.

Why is it the ones we love never want to do well for us.

Photos;

Just fell over on day and nothing I could do to save it.

Forescate and Asahi. Producing leaves but no pups.

Beautiful plants, Stush. I tend to fuss over my favorite ones too much. Sometimes I wonder if they'd fare better being left alone.

Shirley, of course! Glad you are here, actually I didn't know your username but should have picked up on the KY next to it. I'm guilty of paying too much attention too, my overhead watering doesn't help either. One of my favorite things to do on a day when nothing's going on used to be going around to every dry sans with a milk-jug of water and light fertilizer. But I have too many now to have that pleasure.

Stush, your g. variegata was beautiful, that contrasting dark-green edge really makes the varigation stand out. But obviously very picky, probably a single watering that it didn't like. The one leaf of Asahi looks much like San Remo, even has the thin green edging. Is Asahi known by another name?

Chris, no box came today so probably manana. I'll be home and watching for it.

Russ

Forgot to ask, Stush... how did you decide that your Craigii was instead a guineensis? I have the same dilemma, and it'll take several months to grow out a plant from a leaf to confirm one way or the other.

Russ

Russ- Not sure what happened. Maybe the storm delayed it or maybe it was sent 2nd day instead of Priority overnight. In any case, I checked the tracking number and it is still "in transit". Hopefully you will receive it today.
Russ many many years ago during our first trade you sent me a nice pup of 'Craigii'. It was BEAUTIFUL.....my favorite of the group. I managed to keep it alive for about 3 years......losing and gaining equally (and therefore staying the same size) until I finally lost it. I have trouble with the extreme variegates in winter. That includes 'Forescate' too. I love them.....and I KNOW how to grow them.....but have limited space in winter so have given up on them for now.

Russ any sign of the box? It was priority overnight sent Wednesday but on the fedex tracking it is in limbo in Tennessee. If not arrived Monday I will call them. I sent it overnight so they would not be in the box long and arrive quickly. FedEx used to be reliable I had one other negative experience lately. Hope it gets there

No box today Chris. I've had mostly good service with Fedex but an order from Sears was a disaster, twice. Hopefully it's at least indoors in Tenn. Never a dull moment.

I'm trying to identify the plant below, bought at Lowe's for $3 recently. 11 leaves in the rosette, color is gray-green and pattern is stippled, no banding. Margin is creamy white. Seems a bit big for Hahnii Marginated but that's my best guess. I had Hahnii Marginated before and remember it as darker green with distinct banding.

Definitely not Futura Simplex. I'm not familiar with all the new Hahnii's and Futura's out there these days, so need some help.

Stush?????

Russ

Chris, I received your box today, delivery guy said all carriers have been backed up for several days because of snow in northern states. The sans were very cold but I think all will be well, no serious damage that I can see. I posted you at your private email as well.

Thanks much!!!

Russ

My guess is Hahnii Marginated unless it gets bigger then Futura ****. Colors change due to growing conditions. I had both darker and lighter through out the season.

About my guineensis variegated. I was seeing too weak of a plant and with weak wavy leaves just could not be anything other. If Craigii ends up growing the same. It could be confused with the trifasciata group. I saw a white striped giant that was actually a Bantel Senatation. These two groups do get confused together. Like you said, start a leaf and see what develops. If that is possible. Mine was so week, lucky to have 2 to 2-1/2 leaves. With trifasciata, could get 6 to 8 leaves and some times a stacking up to 12 or more.

Russ, do you have any Philodendron Xanadu? Green and the yellow type. I had but lost last year on a cold window seal. I plan on replacing them again but now they are twice the cost. Also looking for a long thin arrow head plant. It grew more of a bush than a vine. Older leaves would have up to 5 lobes instead of the arrow shape. I have the short fat ones they sell in hanging baskets.

Glad to get your advice on Hahnii Marginated, Stush. There are so many new trif varieties out there now that it's confusing as to what is what. Sizes overlap where they never did before, a Hahnii was distinct in size from Futura.

I'm sure I can get a plant from a leaf of my questionable variegate, that will at least determine what species it's from but not necessarily which cultivar. If it's trifasciata, I think it's a full-size type rather than Futura size, which would be Craigii or one Chahinian calls Rheingold, a sport from Wagner's Gold. Pic is in his Trif book.

I do have P. Xanadu, many of the green one in 1 gallon pots. Also have a yellow one, but the yellow fades to green with age. I don't know of one that stays bright yellow, but perhaps you had one. I just went out to check my yellow clone in the shadehouse, I was going to send a pic with this post. Oddly, it's all green right now and I haven't paid attention to it in past winters to know if this is normal with cold and low light. I'll check Google to see if there's any reference to seasonal color. I can send when your weather warms up.

Hmmm,... long thin arrowhead plant, more of a bush... you got me on this one right now. What color are the leaves? I'm assuming you're talking about the leaves being long and narrow. Most Syngoniums have multilobed leaves once they climb far enough up, but it's the bush-form that's puzzling me. I don't have a lot of syngoniums but I may have this one if I can ID it.

Russ

Russ, If you Google Xanadu, the picture of mine comes up several times from Garden Web. I had the Green and the Gold and the Gold with time does turn a soft shade of green but still was brighter than Green. And the syngoniym did vine but slowly. It had the long multi color leaf.

Stush

I'm back after Googling. I saw the pics of your Xanadu's you posted here some time ago, you had a good clone. I think mine is the same one but probably needed better care, the yellow was not as bright as yours. Also, mine had lots of offsets last summer rather than a single trunk. So maybe that has something to do with lower level of color.

No mention of seasonal color in the few good hits on Google, but that would be an obscure piece of info.

Why does everything have to be a big freakin' mystery??

Russ

Looks like we're crossing emails Stush. Got it on the Xanadu. On the syngonium, what were the colors of the leaf? I have one that has a purpley, reddish blush but it's pretty common at big boxes. Maybe it's a philodendron?

Russ

I have this philo which is long and narrow and multicolored, but it would never be considered bushy.

Russ

http://s778.photobucket.com/user/bluesea14808/library/Syngoniums?sort=3&page=1

Hopefully this link will work, these are a few old pics of my syngs. I have others not shown here.

Russ

Russ,

Do you own all those? Here's a picture from the ones I looked at. I have it marked out in red. Bottom of photo.

Stush

Yeah Stush, I have all of those plus a few more. The one you circled is scrambling all over in the leaf litter under two big oaks, throwing up plants as the vine rambles. It's one of the few I don't have an ID on, my guess would be Trileaf Wonder.

Is this the one you were looking for? Just went out and dug some out of the dirt and litter, here are pics. The bottom one is the most mature with 7 lobes, top pic is starting toward 5, and then the center, a little plant with really narrow leaves.

I can send these exact cuttings if you wish. Now I'll go wash my hands!

Russ

Stush, I found my yellow Xanadu, it was outside among some big crotons that I've been dragging into the garage during cold spells.

I wouldn't say this is a 'gold color' as yours seemed to be, I wonder if there are two different clones, yellow and gold. 2nd pic compares a new leaf with an older one on the same plant. This might be brighter during summer with warmth and higher light.

I have 3 plants of the same size in one pot, oddly no other offsets. If offsets don't show up this summer I can cut a trunk. I've had dismal luck in attempting to propagate these meconostigma-types, bipinnatifidum and Evansii with 4" diameter trunks have been near impossible. But maybe the smaller trunk on this Xanadu would make a difference. If I'm successful I'll send the top cutting, otherwise hopefully the base will offset.

Meanwhile, I'll be glad to send a green Xanadu.

Russ

Russ,

I'll be happy with the Green. I have Bikerdoc looking for a yellow at a Mich. Greenhouse near him. Said he'll send one come April when warmer so you don't have to cut yours up. And that is exactly the arrow leaf plant I have been looking for. I had one way back when I was a kid and killed it. Never seen one again, Close but not just the same plant. Thank you so much.

Sorry for going off topic on this post. But we do like to trade and swape here.

Owe you big time.

Stush

Stush, does mine look like the one you lost, or do you think yours was more yellow, or gold? Just wondering if there are two clones out there.

I'm glad I can provide a memory from the past... just let me know when you want the syngoniums, I'll go ahead and root those cuttings so they'll be a little further along when you get them. At that time remind me of anything else we've talked about that you want.

I have a variegated Peperomia obtusifolia that was my grandmothers which means the world to me.

Chris, here are some pics of my largest cyl X pulchra, 3 ft tall. Note the crooked leaves. What the heck is that about?

Russ

My supposed trifasciata Craigii doesn't look like those on this site, very distinct edge here. I know there are variations, but Chahinian often refers to edges as a way of ID.

http://www.phytograph.co.uk/s/sa/sansevieriatrifasciatacraigii/species.html

Russ

Green edge on my plant is thread-like , and and non-existent in some areas.

Russ, your tri-leaf wonder is the mature, adult form of Syngonium podophyllum.

Hi Tiffany, I read where Trileaf Wonder is a variety of podophyllum, have you seen where it is one and the same?? The Trileaf Wonder is rambling on the ground on very narrow eighth inch runners with long internodes. Usually this is a very juvenile stage for philos, monsteras and syngoniums. I also have podophyllum (I assume it's the species) running on the ground and it has a wider leaf. I'll post some pics.

Thanks for the info,

Russ

Russ,

Noticed that brown spot on the leaf? Mine would get they all the time. Was not sun burn. They are extremely weak and not at all thick and strong as my trifasciata. Does your 'Craigii ever develop more than 3 leaves to a stolen?

Hi Stush, I've assumed those brown spots are the same 'rust' that plagues Manolyn and Siam Silver. My Bantel's gets them, and only on the white part of the leaf. I believe it's bacterial or fungal, so I would think our systemic would at least help. I'm going to try and use it regularly and see what happens.

One Craigii has 4 leaves, one has 3, another emerging has 2. The latter looks like it's going to be robust, so it'll be interesting to see how many leaves it develops. What would more than 3 leaves indicate to you?

I notice that Juan's pic of Craigii in his Trif Book shows plants with a very narrow green edge like mine, those Craigii's pictured at the Kew site had a wider border.

Russ

Yes, there are many cultivars of Syngonium podophyllum. More info about 'Trileaf Wonder' on these sites:
http://www.uaex.edu/yard-garden/resource-library/plant-week/arrowhead-philodendron.aspx
https://books.google.com/books?id=KeGzp-YXrPYC&pg=PA3277&lpg=PA3277&dq=syngonium+podophyllum+trileaf+wonder&source=bl&ots=MuBOeGaEHj&sig=5BHZ7yc1cukA8Svu_21sLaXR54s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pWUAVYfOF8LXgwTQ74PQCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEEQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=syngonium%20podophyllum%20trileaf%20wonder&f=false

When you get up to three leaves that usually means guineensis. The other groups moved into guineensis also has three or less leaves to a stolen. Your Craigii having 4 leaves shows it must be from the trifasciata. I did see a masoniana showing to have a forth leaf. It was variegated and was suggested it may be another type instead.

Tiffany, Thanks for the information. I now know those fat leafed ones are not related to the one Russ is giving me.

Thanks for that info Tiffany, interesting stuff since I like syngoniums.

The author said that Trileaf Wonder should be correctly identified as S. podophyllum xanthophyllum v. Green Gold, which looks like two species names and is confusing to me. But he solves the riddle of why I see apparent adult stage leaves on Trileaf Wonder while it should be in juvenile stage running across the ground. He says Trileaf produces it's "adult-type leaves" early. I've never seen that before in any other syngonium. Very cool.

Stush, hopefully that 4th leaf is a clue. The new plant emerging will be a bit bigger than the other two plants, so we'll see how many it produces.

Russ