Sorry, Posted early by accident. these are the options. I have 2 carrier quotes and 1 Rheem quote so far. I have 2 Bryant contractors coming this week for estimates

Contractor 1

This quote includes a $4000 NJECP rebate for upgrading to an efficient system and Air sealing the house. This also includes $10000 at zero percent for 10 years.

Hybrid system

- A Carrier Corporation 59TN6A060V17-14, 96.3% two-stage Infinity Series furnace with variable speed blower

motor, 60,000 BTU.

- A Carrier Corporation 25HNB530, 2.5 ton outdoor heat pump unit with R410 Puron refrigerant.

- A Carrier Corporation CNPVP3621 indoor cooling coil matched to achieve an AHRI rating 15 SEER, 12.5 EER,

and 8.5 HSPF.

- A Carrier Corporation wifi touchscreen controller.

- PVC intake and exhaust venting per manufacturers specifications.

- Gas line from service location to unit with township pressure test.

- New condenser pad, electrical disconnect, and refrigerant line-set.

- Adapt and reconnect existing ductwork and electrical service.

- Complete removal and disposal of old equipment.

PRICE: $14,900.00 _

- A State SPX 50 DHPT 2.75EF hybrid electric heat pump domestic water heater.

- Complete removal and disposal of old water tank.

PRICE: $2,800.00

- Air seal attic flat to NJOCE/BPI standards.

- Seal 15 ft of cantilever in basement.

- Properly vent bath fan through sidewall termination.

- Properly vent dryer using semi-rigid duct.

- Seal attic hatch with 2" R14 foam board.

- NJCEP rebate processing

- Blower door test in and test out.

PRICE: $3,400.00

Project total: $21,100.00

NJOCE Rebate: -$4,000.00 Paid to Customer with 20% total energy savings.

Project cost: $17,100.00

Contractor 1 Gas system

A Carrier Corporation 59TN6A080V17-14, 96.2% two-stage Infinity Series furnace with variable speed blower motor, 80,000 BTU.

- A Carrier Corporation 25ABC636, 3 ton outdoor condensing unit with R410 Puron refrigerant.- A Carrier Corporation CNPVP4221 indoor cooling coil matched to achieve an AHRI rating 16 SEER, 13 EER.

- A Carrier Corporation wifi touchscreen controller.- PVC intake and exhaust venting per manufacturers specifications.- Gas line from service location to unit with township pressure test.- New condenser pad, electrical disconnect, and refrigerant line-set.- Adapt and reconnect existing ductwork and electrical service.- Complete removal and disposal of old equipment.PRICE: $13,100.00

A Bradford White .68 EF 50 gallon powervented domestic water heater.- PVC exhaust venting per manufacturers specifications.

- Gas line from service location to unit with township pressure test.

- Complete removal and disposal of old water tank.PRICE: $2,850.00 Project Total: $15,950.00Warm Advantage Rebate: -$900.00 Paid to customer as available at time on installation.

Project Cost: $15,050.00

Contractor 2 Rheem

(1) 14AJM36 CONDENSER 15.5 SEER 3 TONS R-410A

(1) RCFLHM3617 EVAPORATOR COIL

(1) 36*36 PAD

(1) R96VA0702317 2 STAGE VARIBLE SPEED FURNACE 70,000 BTU 96%

(1) RHEEM ECONET STAT

(1) EXTERNAL FILTER RACK

(1) REFRIGERANT LINESET

(1) ELECTRICAL DISCONNECT

(1) CONDENSATE PUMP

* ALL REQUIRED GAS PIPING INCLUDING SERVICE TEE FOR ADDITIONAL APPL. * ALL REQUIRED DUCTWORK * ALL REQUIRED FUSES * ALL REQUIRED PERMITS * REMOVE EQUIPMENT FROM SITE

$7695.00

OPTIONAL: 40 GALLON RHEEM HIGH EFF. HOT WATER Heater ADD $1895.00

Is paying almost double for Carrier vs Rheem worth it? They are both reputable contractors, I know people who have used each.

Thanks

What size is your home?

What size is your existing HP?

What is your all inclusive electric rate and nat gas rate?

Generally, dual fuel or hybrid systems have become less attractive because electric rates have advanced and nat gas rates have declined.

You want the Infinity controller with the Carrier system quoted, no substitute.

Carrier system is better than Rheem, but the pricing seems over the top.

Why not a nat gas hot water heater?

All work performed should be to code.

I would recommend a box filter cabinet.

I will have to study your post further.

Post Bryant quote when received.

IMO

I am in central NJ so I am familiar with the utility rates and the NJ Clean Energy Program.

If you are getting a 95%+ AFUE furnace then it is unlikely you will save money by heating with a heat pump. I would down grade the heat pump to a AC condenser and put the extra money to a better condenser model.

Be careful about the using the NJCEP program. You have to spend money on upgrading insulation in order to get the $4000 rebate but you will find out the quotes for the HVAC equipment and insulation are at inflated prices. The energy auditing company may subcontract the HVAC installation. That could lead to problems if the installation is done incorrectly.

It looks like the Carrier is much higher than the Rheem because it is connected with the NJCEP program. Get some quotes directly from Carrier and Bryant dealers in order to see the differences.

Did the Carrier contractor mention the Cool advantage rebate? The AC needs to be a SEER 17 and EER 13 in order to get the $500 rebate. There should be an AC condenser you could pair with one of these furnaces which will meet the requirement. The contractor needs to submit the Manual J and Manual S calculations in order to qualify for the rebate.

Tigerdunes. My house is 1900 sq ft, to be honest I have no idea what size the current heat pump is, it's original to the house which was built in 1986, its a Trane. The reason for the hybrid water heater in the duel fuel quote is to meet the efficiency standards for the NJ clean energy program, a natural gas hot water heater does not reach those standards. My current electric rate is .087 per kwh for supply. if I average in delivery it comes out to about .132 per kwh. gas rates are about .50 cents per Therm.

Thanks Mike,

I was afraid of prices being inflated when using the program. I know carrier is supposed to be top of the line but a 5-6k difference seems a little much. That is why I'm trying to get a few more quotes from contractors who do not participate in the program. I've talked to 2 carrier dealers and they both want to push to the program. The other dealer didn't offer a duel fuel option he just went to the most expensive heatpump they offer through the program and the gas option was about 2k more than the one I listed above. I've looked in to what is actually done when air sealing and what they are proposing I could probably do myself for a few hundred bucks, it doesn't seem worth it to me.

Keep looking for contractors. We have had very cold weather lately so the timing is may not be good to get honest quotes.

I personally like the traditional gas hot water heater without the damper. It is a little less efficient but it uses no electricity to operate. This allows you to have all the hot water you want during a prolonged power outage.

If your attic has R-30 insulation then paying thousands of dollars to increase it to R-49 may not make financial sense. It does make sense as a DIY project. The other issue with the NJCEP program is that the attic has to be sealed. I think sealing helps with reducing energy costs, but how much is debatable. I have never seen a report showing a house with before and after results. This would also be a good DIY project along with constructing a cover from the attic pull down stair way.

Thanks for the info. I didnt even think that the timing might not be right to get honest quotes due to the weather. I've got 3 or 4 more coming in for estimates through next week. It takes at least a month for PSEG to run the line up to my house so each contractor knows I'm in no rush and I dont need it today.

One more question. I spoke to one contractor who uses Payne. He is highly recommended but isnt Payne low end? He hasnt been out yet but over the phone said ballpark of around 7-8k. He said Payne is made by Carrier and to look at Carrier as a Cadillac and Payne as Chevy. The same parts and ability just not dressed up and no heavy marketing.

search the forum for the clean energy program. I personally wrote a book with my experiences and so have others. Yes, it is inflated. I did it because with the financing etc it seemed worth it. I did not get Infinity, though I'm sure it's nice to have, I had to draw the line somewhere. I got Carrier performance multi-speed. Probably should have gotten the variable speed, but I was content with multi, and didn't really understand the difference until it was too late. Some people think there are more potentially more expensive repairs with variable. I did get ac and heat with 2-stage though. I opted for the tankless over the power vent hwh because I love the concept of endless hot water, and it put me into the 5k rebate. My total was 17k, less 5k rebate, 2k out of pocket and about $83/month for ten years. 0% for ten years is pretty great. I felt that even if I didn't get a "deal", I didn't really overpay either and got the financing. I probably never would have gotten the air sealing and extra insulation (6 inches blown on top of my batts) without the program making me.

Don't forget the extra $100 cash Carrier gives you for replacing a 30 year old Carrier system:

http://www.carrier.com/homecomfort/en/us/rebates-and-financing/

In the past the Carrier low end builder's models is the same equipment as the Payne models. The equipment is constantly changing so you have study the product data sheets to see if they are comparable.

If you plan to live in the house for another 10 years you are better off upgrading to something better. Carrier rebates usually start March 1st. When you combine the rebate with the NJ rebates the price difference may not be as big as you think.

Got a quote from another contractor.

Bryant 926t gas furnace 80k btu, 127a AC 3ton with hi efficiency gas hot water heater and needed gas lines for 11,700.

He also offered a Coleman system, TM9V gas furnace 80k btu, TCJF 16 seer AC 3 ton with the same Hot water and gas lines for 10,100.

I think I'm going to scratch the carrier hybrid system listed above so that leaves me with the Bryant and Coleman in this post as well as

Carrier 59TN 80k btu gas furnace, 25ABC AC 3ton 16 seer, Hw heater and gas lines at 15,050

Rheem R96VA 70k btu, 14AJM36 3ton 16 seer AC, hw heater and gas lines for 9,590

So far the Carrier looks really over priced.

I still have a few more estimates to come in over the next 2 days with another Carrier, Bryant, York and another Rheem. We will see how they go.

got another Carrier quote back. $14800

24ANB636 16 seer 3 ton AC

CNPVP3717 Air handler

59TN6060V17 60,000btu furnace

Infinity thermostat

bradford white .67ef water heater

run gas lines and vent

and 1 year service contract, 10 yrs parts and labor on system, 6 year/1 year on hot water heater.