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hkwan

48 inch WOLF DF Range, Steamer, Wall oven

hkwan
7 years ago

Hello,

I need some advice since these are a huge investment for my kitchen renovation. I love WOLF but if anyone can give me any advice for a different brand that similar with WOLF - I might consider if I can save some money.

I am not quiet sure If I want to purchase Micro Drawer-SHARP- but one of the designer said that it would be sad if I have a regular microwave when I have top of line kitchen's equipment.

Will getting SAMSUNG refrigenerator=anyone has issues with their customer service? I was considered to purchase Kitchen Aid.

For sure I will have a very good ventilation hood.

Now for my kitchen backsplash: was thinking to use 1/2 stainless steel from WOLF that will surrounding with curve subway tiles. My kitchen floor, dining room and family room will be hardwood floor.

I don't like WHITE cabinet. Would love to get CHERRY Cabinet but worried will be too much wood /outdated. If I go with CHERRY, should I go with the darker one. COLOR Cabinet: I might consider with Cream Color with my Farmer Sink.


PLEASE any advises I would appreciate. Anyone knows where should I buy this WOLF in MA or any online website with a better discounted price- email me.


Thanks

Yani

Comments (43)

  • hvtech42
    7 years ago

    I would avoid the Wolf DF range, the blue porcelain in the ovens is prone to chipping. Read more about that in past posts on this forum.

    hkwan thanked hvtech42
  • romy718
    7 years ago

    I've had my Wolf DF about year, no blue porcelain problems, yet. You might want to also post on the Appliances Forum.

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  • hvtech42
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    One member here didn't have a problem until a few years in at which point Wolf refused to give them a reasonable resolution. A $10K range ready for the scrap heap in under 5 years and this is a product marketed to last decades. Based on the repeated posts here, it is quite a risky move, especially with all the interesting open burner competition out there now.

  • charon70
    7 years ago

    I agree with hvtech42......Before I decided to purchase a Wolf range I did extensive research including reading tons of threads on GW regarding the Wolf porcelain chipping issues in the dual fuel. Based on my research and comments from GW members like hvtech42, I would STAY FAR AWAY from the Wolf dual fuel. I have read so many threads of members going through 3-4 ranges before deciding to give up on Wolf. One members range was useless after 4.5 years because the blue porcelain chips were getting into her food. A certified Wolf installer, in so many words, recommended I purchase the all gas range. He wouldn't outright speak negativley of the dual fuel but he said enough for me to get the point.

    hkwan thanked charon70
  • hkwan
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Can you give me any other brands that has a DF range? I heard MIELE has came up with a really nice range?

  • hvtech42
    7 years ago

    Tons of brands have dual fuel 48" ranges. Thermador, Miele, KitchenAid, JennAir, Dacor, DCS, GE Monogram, Viking, Capital, and American Range are some.

    The Miele looks nice, but there aren't any reviews because it's so new.

    hkwan thanked hvtech42
  • charon70
    7 years ago
    hkwan.....Just another option for you to consider. Do you have space for a wall oven? If so, you could purchase the all Wolf all gas range and install the new M series electric wall oven.

    I am doing something similar. I purchased the Wolf all gas range. I plan on purchasing a Wolf single M series wall oven, steam oven and a warming drawer.
    hkwan thanked charon70
  • hkwan
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I have the same thought with you. Only 1 wall oven and steam oven

  • charon70
    7 years ago
    Doing it that way gives you more cooking options...you'll have the gas oven, electric oven, and a steam oven.
  • live_wire_oak
    7 years ago

    Samsung as a fridge seems to be rather a mismatch to the higher end cooking products that you are considering. The appliances should generally all be at the same level, and you've got a Hyundai mixed in with the Jaguar's and Porsches here.

  • hvtech42
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I disagree with that. Sometimes we want certain functionality from one appliance, but our budgets restrict us from buying everything high end. Spending more on the cooking gets you a lot more than spending more on a refrigerator. Samsung fridges aren’t really lower end in looks and functionality than similar Whirlpool/KA, Frigidare/Electrolux, or GE. The only thing higher end would be a built in, and the notion that you need a built in fridge just because you’re buying a big range sounds like typical appliance salesman BS.

    Maybe the name isn't as high end, but we don't think like that here, right?

  • hkwan
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I am going to see the BLUE STAR -LPropane- 48 inch this coming week. Hopefully Miele will have a showroom this coming NE Home show next week. Loving the sleek looks on MIELE. Like you said, since it is a still a brand new one, I am quiet concerned. Has been in love with WOLF in decades, very hard to let it go.

    I will ask the WOLF directly with the chipping issues- since they have came up with the latest one-hopefully they will give me an honest answer

    But if I go with MIELE- I don't have to get a STEAMER OVEN since it is included -48 inch MIELE-of course the price is higher than WOLF

    I could go with WOLF -LPropane, 1 wall oven and a Steamer Oven. Any one has either WOLF or MIELE oven steamer?

  • leemiller
    7 years ago

    Just curious, why do you want duel fuel? We are getting a Wolf 36' gas range and looked at duel fuel, but I didn't see the point of the extra expense. One kitchen guy said he's a huge baker and didn't see the difference in cooking with gas. Also, we looked at Bluestar but there was some cleaning issue with the grates and there wasn't any obvious advantage to me over Wolf. Like you, I've been a little Wolf obsessed.


    hkwan thanked leemiller
  • leemiller
    7 years ago

    We're getting a Subzero fridge because we wanted a counter depth with panels and we got a rebate to get it with the Wolf range and Wolf hood. Btw I heard that stainless finishes and undertones and vary so IMO it is worth going with a Wolf hood. As for microwave, I'm sticking my $100 countertop one in the pantry. How is that for high end.

    Oh and I really had to be convinced to get the 36, mainly did it for resale. I don't understand the huge ovens, but they are popular in my neighborhood, so 36 was about as small as I could go. And with all gas we also figured less to maintain/ break!

  • live_wire_oak
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    No, I'm not a snob when it comes to brands. I have a freaking GE In my own house because it just won't die and I'm too cheap to replace something functional. But choosing all those high end appliances and then a Samsung for a fridge is skewed budgetarily and aesthetically. I wouldn't say the same thing if there were a single splurge appliance, because we all have those items that we indulge ourselves in that are "above" what the House or neighborhood would logically support if logic alone determined the decision to buy.

    It's the fact that a laundry list of upper end appliances has a rather pedestrian non built in refrigerator mixed into it. "One of these things is not like the other" If the budget and neighborhood support the other appliances on the list, then a built in fridge needs to be part of the package as well. Thermidor, Meile, Liebherr, SubZero----one of those. It's not about personal priorities at that level of renovation. It's about what a future buyer would view as a serious drawback for the kitchen of that level. It doesn't need to be the most expensive built in, but it shouldn't be a Samsung.

  • charon70
    7 years ago

    hkwan.....Do a search within the appliances forum. Someone recently wrote an extensive review of their Wolf steam oven. There are also post on comparing the Wolf and Miele steam ovens.

  • charon70
    7 years ago

    Leemiller.....I am also putting a cheap microwave in my pantry. We only use it to heat food and beverages. I didn't want to take up valuable cabinet space for a microwave. This way I had room for the stream oven.

  • hkwan
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    We decided to purchase a regular microwave. My dream is having the 48 inch-DF because of it is better to bake with the electric and self cleaning oven. Since I am planning to purchase a wall oven- I would purchase the electric with oven steamer- then I might be able to stay with a regular LPropane 48 inch oven.

    I love cooking, and since I came to the USA= Viking was the one- since they have had so many issues since was bought by other company, I change my dream to WOLF. But I do not want to spend so much, then facing the porcelain chipping from WOLF.

    Regarding Bluestar- their oven takes so long to heat.

  • hkwan
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Finally I get the answer from CLARKE at Boston regarding the chipping porcelain from WOLF DF Range.

    I can tell you, that about 10 yrs ago there was some chipping that had occurred in a batch of ovens, however, Wolf took care of the situation immediately and changed out any oven cavities that had the issue from the factory. Wolf, as well as Clarke’s expectations are happy, repeat customers.

    That being said, customers can create “egg shell –crazing” , by user error. The beautiful blue porcelain interiors should never be cleaned with a damp cloth while still hot…this will cause crazing to the surface, which over years of happening could lead to chipping. This can occur in any manufacturer’s porcelain interior.

    Anyone has this issues recently with WOLF? Thank you Yani

  • Melissa Kroger
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    The big oven on the right side of the Miele 48"'is NOT a steam oven. It's steam assist, which is completely different. Unfortunately, the person at the Miele showroom in Beverly Hills had no idea what this means, but I believe it adds intermittent steam in certain cooking modes, but does not do full blown steaming. The left side, smaller oven is a speed cook and can be used as a mw. It has a popcorn button and other features that can be found on any mw. The range top is very well laid out and the grates are dw safe, which is a big plus for me. The control panel is very cool and operates much like an iPhone. Oh, and the warming drawer is a little small, but still holds quite a bit and has settings for warming plates, cups and food. Overall, it's the best range I've seen for our needs. You should definitely look at it and try out your pots/pans in it.

    hkwan thanked Melissa Kroger
  • leemiller
    7 years ago
    I agree that a potential buyer would likely prefer a built in fridge to go with the 48 inch oven. I don't know that it would be a possible or easy thing to retrofit. Especially at the price point of a 48 duel fuel Wolf. The other option is a counter depth fridge with no panels. Then again, I'm only getting one oven and a 36 inch even though I see plenty of duel ovens and larger ranges at open houses in my hood. My kitchen is set up so that a future buyer could easily add a duel oven and more cabinets in an area to the side - so even a contrasting color would work.

    I'm glad to hear the Wolf issue is resolved. Even the Bluestar rep had really nothing bad to say about Wolf - it is the brand I see the most of in the newer renovated homes in my area.
  • leemiller
    7 years ago
    Lol, now you need to decide red or stainless handles.... :)
  • hvtech42
    7 years ago

    The statement from the distributor that Wolf has resolved the porcelain issue is hogwash. Do some reading on this forum, there have been people who have had the issue very recently. Some have gone through 3 ovens! Sadly, one poster "wekick" has a dual fuel range that chipped a couple years ago after less than 5 years of use. Wolf will not offer reasonable help.

  • hkwan
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Would love to get the Subzero fridge but it is too much money-so I have to stay either with Samsung or Kitchen Aid fridge. Any one has suggestion which brands, let me know.

    I get headache just making this decision, it is my dream kitchen where I can cook and use it as my 2nd home made catering services.

    Loving Wolf then hesitate after hearing this conflict issues. I have my electric Kitchen Aid -22 yrs old-love it - but not sure if I want to purchase Kitchen Aid Range -after other company bought the company= quality has been down.


    Yani

  • charon70
    7 years ago

    hkwan.....What did you decide to purchase?

    hkwan thanked charon70
  • breezygirl
    7 years ago

    I've been through 2 Wolf L series wall ovens in 3 years because of chipped porcelain. My 2nd one will be replaced with the new Ms. I'm really hoping the issues are resolved in the new ovens. Time will tell. Otherwise, I really enjoy the way the Ls baked and held consistent temp.

    hkwan thanked breezygirl
  • hkwan
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    breezygirl.

    not sure you would read my comment but I got a call directly from WOLF reps-I have mentioned of your issues and she has not gotten a call from you at all or heard your problems. I am kinds of surprised since WOLF should have a good reputation. I paste the email LISA sent to me- anyone who has this serious chipping - please call her.

    It is really depended which agents you buy the products from in addition of WOLF's. Each Agents have their own reputation that they want to maintain- with this expense range- I would purchase it with a Premium Agents that is willing to help customer in long run if I am facing this porcelain chipping.

    I believe we do have to follow the manual was given to prevent the porcelain chipping. As the same as car, if you do not follow the manual, your car wont last.

    I am not saying I dont appreciate the input, but my Mom uses to sell kitchen products so I do understand you should purchase this expense range with a good reputation Agents/Distributor.

    CHARON70,

    I have not decided which ones. After spending time on the phone with LISA @WOLF, my heart still set on WOLF but I will keep it mind for MIELE and BLUE RANGE or BERTAZONNI

    Anyone has inputs or own BERTAZONNI????

    Thank you for taking time to speak with me today about your concerns. I hope that I have answered all of your questions and addressed your concerns about porcelain issues.

    Following is a link to the Wolf Cleaning Reference Guide which our test kitchen has developed to help care for your Wolf Appliances: http://www.subzero-wolf.com/resources/WolfCleaningReference.pdf

    Our test kitchen has tested many cleaners and used many methods for cleaning. The suggestions in this guide have produced the best results without causing damage to our products.

    As we also discussed, if you use a Factory Certified Installer for your Sub-Zero and Wolf Appliance Installations, you will receive one additional year on the full parts and labor portion of the warranty.

    You will find a list of Factory Certified Installers by following this link:
    http://www.subzero-wolf.com/locator?zip=01701&radius=25&searchType=dealer#Tab-Installers

    If you wish to see more choices, you can choose a different distance on the top of the page and then make sure to select installers

    This same locator will show you the Authorized Dealers and the Factory Certified Service Providers for your area by selecting dealers or service.

    Please do not hesitate to contact me directly with any additional questions or concerns. Jenny Trudeau at Clarke will also be happy to assist you.

    We hope that the reputation and quality of our products will assure you that your choice of Sub-Zero and Wolf Appliances is the best choice for you!

    I can be reached Monday-Friday 8:00 am – 5 pm central time at 608-661-3894. If I am unavailable please leave me a message and I will get back to you as quickly as possible. Please also feel free to e-mail me at lisa.lathrop@subzero.com

  • leemiller
    7 years ago
    Another thing to keep in mind in sales volume, Wolf and Subzero sell much more product than some of these other brands. I've also been told that servicing is easier because of this. I don't have any input on the enamel issue, but my gas Wolf range just went in and I can't wait to use it. What about Viking? They seem to be the other big name I see in the fancier kitchens around here.
    hkwan thanked leemiller
  • charon70
    7 years ago

    Hkwan....I understand your delimma very much. I wanted the dual fuel as well but decided not to get it because of the chipping issues. If you really want it...go for it...at least you know going in that you may have an issue with the porcelain chipping.

  • breezygirl
    7 years ago

    Hi. My tired eyes can't decipher your comment to me well enough to understand it. Is a Wolf denying there is a problem? If so, that's old news. They've denied it before.

    Their customer service has been great to deal with the few times I've had to call. Their response to my initial oven chipping was swift, and my replacement oven was installed in quick order. When the 2nd oven decided to chip and craze, the CS rep with whom I spoke was apologetic and cooperative. In fact, he's the one that suggested that I wait to get a replacement until the new ovens came out in a few months instead of replacing with yet another set of Ls. He even went so far as to say that the Ls' oven design didn't allow for the contraction and expansion of the porcelain and that that's what causes the chipping/crazing. We have speculated about that on the forum for some time.

    You're not the first person to report here that Wolf denies a problem. All I can tell you is to research past threads here for yourself to see comments made by actual owners who have been through two faulty ovens. Hopefully the search function is better now that Houzz has unfortunately swallowed Gardenweb whole.

  • hkwan
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Breezygirl,

    sorry if my comment confused you more. I never said Wolf denied the issues. They give me an explanation why it could be happened and I guess it could happend for any porcelain liner.

    From the previous comment from a different owner, was having a hard time with Wolf. Hopefully the latest DF Range is much better than the previous ones.

    They also mentioned that the chipping could be happened on either Gas/Dual Fuel range.

  • Chuck Langman
    7 years ago

    HKWAN, I'm in the same boat as you. I'm trying to decide if it is worth the extra money to get Wolf. Considering Dacor and Miele. I was considering Thermador but after seeing it get trashed here I think it is out. I'm doing lots of different brands and levels depending on my individual tastes, needs and desires. I can't see paying $1300+ for a drawer microwave and being locked in to that exact size moving forward when I can buy a very good counter top model for $300 or even less. Considering Bosch 800 series dishwasher as my top choice so far. I love the Wolf range for the feel and build quality but won't do it if it will go bad too soon. I want DF because I want self cleaning and you can't get that with all gas. I do like an electric broiler as well. We are looking at Frigidare 30" all refrigerator and 30" all freezer as they are less than ¼ the price of sub-zero. ($1400 vs. $7500+). I wish you well with your project.

  • hkwan thanked Chuck Langman
  • hkwan
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Chuck Langman,

    thank you for the link. WOLF admitted they have had this issues 10 years ago and have changed the porcelain manufacture. Also I have heard the the PW362418 Wolf range hood is very a complicate hood- we have decided to purchase the BEST/Broan range hood

    I saw the latest VIKING 7 series yesterday-such a beautiful range but it doesn't come with the delay time as WOLF has-I was kinds of sad. The dealer the I went to - stated they have not heard any customer's complaint regarding the chipping porcelain. Clarke's agents which the WOLF's premium agent admitted that they have had this issue 10 years ago.

    I am so confused right now-not sure which is the 48 inch DF range should I purchase? Frigidaire was bought by Electrolux- will come with a very nice Wall Oven that costs $1500 instead the $3500 Wolf.

    I have to purchase the Steamer Oven -I fall in love with WOLF- so I need to search any issues or not.

    Anyone has any experience with the GE Proffesional Series?


  • slk7e7
    7 years ago

    Regarding Samsung, I have one of their Smart TV's, and have had a lot of issues. Their customer service is the WORST I have ever encountered in my entire life. Long story very short, I have spent 5+ hours on the phone with them this week (90% of that on hold) and I still cannot get them to help me with what should be a relatively easy fix. Each time I asked for a supervisor (about 4 times) I was transferred, put on hold for an eternity, and then disconnected. I never did talk to a supervisor. I am going to end up paying Geek Squad $200+ to come out and help me when they really should be able to fix it over the phone.

    Friends who have a Samsung fridge have also had major issues. They called several appliance repair companies that flat-out refused to work on Samsungs when their ice maker broke (after 8 months). Finally got the part directly from Samsung but it took them 6 weeks to send it and then they sent the wrong part. Another friend had the heating element on her Samsung dryer go out after less than a year. Can you tell I'm not a fan of Samsung??

  • hkwan
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Wow- I heard about Samsung's customer service was really bad. We had their washing +dryer for almost 3 years are still going strong( cross my finger)- you have to make sure to wipe all the water after washing it.

  • gabytx12
    7 years ago

    I also wanted a 48" range for my kitchen, having never had one, I really looked for a Wolf or Viking at a discount...but found nothing I felt comfortable shelling out the money for. Even on Craigslist/ebay....found some, but still, IMO the deals were very risky due to no warranty or fall back if something went wrong.

    We did purchase a 48" kitchen aid range...granted I have never had a wolf or Viking.....but I absolutely LOVE my Kitchen aid range. We purchased it at Sears outlet/discount for about 60% less than retail (small scuff mark at bottom) and we did get an extended warranty.

    I love the way this range cooks!!! I love the convection oven and the fact that I have a smaller oven to cook in most days. I am not sure if you have ever had the higher end appliances, I have not and so this is a total upgrade for me and I have a peace of mind knowing I have a warranty.

    Also, we purchased the Sharp microwave, 24" I was able to get this for 70% below retail from Sears outlet also (not sure what was wrong with it, it was still in original packaging) ...we love it.!!!..total space saver and my DH who is 6'4" can even use it with ease. The controls tilt up so NO bending over to use it.

    I highly recommend getting the Sharp microwave, everyone who comes into our kitchen raves about it! Also, don't rule of 48" kitchen aid range, you can find some good deals.



  • hkwan
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Just saw another forum and comments from: not sure if anyone has any input or not. I still did not get a chance to call Lisa from Wolf-I have been so sick this last week :(


    Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

    richm53

    We had a new kitchen designed for the Wolf 30" E series oven with the Wolf steam oven on top. The kitchen is now complete and ready for the ovens. I have 2 questions for anyone that may know if the new E series design will eliminate the porcelain flaking issue on so many threads here. And, has anyone else heard of the new 30" Wolf steam oven being introduced in 2014.
    I did call Wolf and a tech told me the new e series is now designed with a separate bottom hopefully to eliminate the porcelain issue. Any thoughts please? Thanks for any help

  • charon70
    7 years ago

    Hkwan....What range and wall ovens did you decide to purchase for your kitchen?

  • hkwan
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I have decided to get the newest MIELE's 48 inch ( I have not ordered- project wont start until August 2015). Will get Miele's Steamer Oven instead of Wolf. Do not want to take a chance with WOLF. Cant see myself spending $6-7K for double oven. So I might have to buy either Kitchen Aid. I need advise which brands to buy for my biggest Fridge- orig wanted to buy Samsung- but getting they have a horrible customer service.

    Any input for the Fridge?

  • charon70
    7 years ago

    Hkwan...That's great! Miele is a good choice. I am happy for you! What size fridge do you plan on purchasing? Does it need to be a built in or integrated? What is your fridge budget?

  • hkwan
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    subzerro is not on my budget- my budget would be $3600. Anyone has any input for the KA wall oven?