There are a lot of decisions to be made. I give you some things to think about.

First decision is what fuel you should use. If you keep the old oil furnace then it makes sense to install a heat pump and create a dual fuel system. The oil furnace would only be used as the back up heat. Old oil furnaces last a long time, so I would not make a quick decision to replace it if you are staying with oil. You may need to replace the burner or at least have it serviced so it is operating at peak efficiency.

If you go to propane then you again have a dual fuel system. You could also eliminated the oil furnace and just use propane to heat the house. Post your electric rate, and costs for oil and propane. It will help decide which system is more economical at today's prices. The propane furnace is attractive because if gas became available in the future then it could be easily converted. You can also use the propane for cooking, drying clothes, and domestic hot water.

The upper and lower floors should have their own zones. This could be done with either one furnace and dampers, or two furnaces. I am not a fan of installing furnaces or heat pumps in attics. However it is some times the only viable option. I would rather have equipment in the attic rather than trying to squeeze duct work from the basement to service the second floor. The other option would be to build a utility closet on the second floor. You have to give up some space but you will have a second floor that is heated and cooled properly.

I don't think splitting each floor into three zones will work well. The zones will be small and may not work well depending what furnace you buy. Be aware most contractors are not expert on zoning installation. It would keep the zoning as simple as possible.

Thanks Mike for answering my post. There is an area upstairs where I can add a utility closet as there isn't enough space for a unit in the peak of the roof anyway. One contractor suggested running a propane line upstairs. He was not a fan of heat pumps. The winters are rather harsh, and possibly I would constantly be running the emergency electric heat...I also figured if I took care of the upstairs and used propane, I could still keep my oil furnace and just fix the ductwork for now and eventually go with propane for the rest of the house.

I've had propane for heating, cooking, dryer and h/w heater and even fireplace before and definitely prefer it to oil. I've been considering this in my decision.

But, I also thought it was rather attractive to have the one system in the basement to save the space upstairs and also have only one system to maintain. The contractor that wants to do this has made a very convincing argument that they would be able to make the system work with new ductwork they would funnel up through an old laundry shoot that I've dismantled that goes from the first to second floor. Then they would place duct work through the peak of the roof, etc, etc. Their idea seems to be a much more ambitious and creative solution than the others, so far. Out of the 4 contractors, they were the only ones that want to do this. Is it because the others don't want to deal with the duct work to upstairs? Are the other contractors taking the easiest route or the best way to heat and cool the second floor?

If you installed a heat pump then the emergency heat could be a new propane furnace for the upper floor, or the current oil furnace for the lower floor. It does not have to be electric heat.

Using the old laundry chute may be a good option for running the duct work from the basement. The duct work must be properly sized otherwise you will always have problems.

Some contractors just want to take the safe and easy route. They don't want to spend the time to design a system. Others look to keep the costs down fearing that a high number will scare you away. You have to talk to the contractor and ask many questions.

I am getting that impression to. That's why I think the contractor that wants to use the laundry shoot is experienced and confident even to propose doing new ductwork for the whole house. No one else wants to take the chance. They want to cap off the top floor ducts.

I've also contacted NYSERDA and an authorized contractor will be doing an energy audit next week. The state offers low interest loans through this program. I am curious to hear what he recommends.

I honestly had no idea getting a new HVAC system was going to be so complicated and filled with so many variables! . I know zero about this stuff and I worried I'll make the wrong decision, or worse, get ripped off, lol!

Mike_Home provided you with excellent advice.

That energy audit is very important; there will probably be many things you will need to do to improve the energy efficiency of your home. Try not to install costly oversized equipment!

Keep in mind that for NYSERDA rebate programs, any installer has to be on their list of BIP-certified contractors. I don't know if the loan independent or utility bill payment systems work like that. With my father's house, there are few BIP installers in the area, and the 10% NYSERDA rebate program, it was not much different to go with the NYSEG rebate instead and choose any contractor we like. If he had qualified for the 50% program, it would be a very different story.

Expect the auditor to come with their own plan for improvements in your house. If you can find an evaluator that does no actual installations, insulation, HCVAC etc. you might get a less biased result.

Heat pump performance in cold climes has improved very rapidly. You should look into it. If it works, keeping the oil as backup could make a lot of sense. There is no gain in investing a lot of money in a system that sees little use in defrost cycles and in only the coldest weather. Ask the energy evaluator about this specifically. keep your ducts inside the envelope of your house, out of the attic, if you can possibly do it.

A long time ago, as a little kid, I spent some time riding in a fuel oil delivery truck and some was in NE OC (mostly Sullivan). That was probably the Delaware watershed rather than Hudson. Don't be afraid of oil heat, but you need a contractor that knows it well, not just someone that dabbles in it between other specialties.

Monday is the energy audit. I'm curious to hear what he tells me. Mike_Home, I had another HVAC contractor this past week and he said that all of the ductwork needed to be replaced. He felt he could not do the job right without basically tearing out and starting from scratch and was not interested in doing the job. As, you said, not everyone is willing to design...they want to take the easy route. At least he was honest.

It will be interesting to see what the auditor proposes. Yes, I agree ionized_gw that this audit may be somewhat biased. He is the only one that's close by me and it looks like he does mostly foam and blown in insulation. I did ask if he also installed furnaces, A/C, etc and he said yes. So, we shall see. I'll bet he doesn't take care of the ductwork problem. I've had all 4 contractors say that my ductwork and all the add-on flexible ducts were the main problem and no system would ever work right without addressing that first.

Anyway, I will let you all know what the energy auditor says. Hopefully, then I will be satisfied and can make a decision.

I finally have all my proposals. I will post them all and hope to get some additional words of wisdom from the experts here. First off, I have decided on a few things. If I go with a new unit in the basement, I will go with propane. If I just add a separate unit for the upstairs, I can go with heat pump or propane---I will then keep the oil furnace in the basement for now, but will have the duct work changed/fixed to deliver heat and a/c more evenly to first floor. That being said, I am still on the fence about putting a independent system upstairs--- cannot go in an attic, I would have to make a closet and set it in there. Only one of the five HVAC contractors wants to have one unit down the basement for the whole house. The others will fix the ductwork in the basement and first floor, but do not recommend one unit for the whole house. The NYSERDA guy wants to spray foam everything. I know this is long, thanks for any advice you can give me. I want to make a decision tomorrow so we can get started on Monday. I really would prefer the one system in the basement.

Here are my quotes:

Contractor #1

LP Forced Air Furnace Option

Replacement of all HVAC starting from scratch. Install York LP fired warm air furnace complete with AC and all new ducting throughout house. York model # TM9V 2 stage high efficient furnace 96% AFUE, ECM motor, all pvc to direct debt furnace. AC coil, York 4 ton 14 SEER AC condenser model # CJF48 condenser Pad, whip and disconnect, line set to carry the 410A freon, all required plenums, all necessary grill and boxes for upstairs, R8 flex, condensate pump, 2 stage Honeywell thermostat, zone damper and zone board to create 2 zone system.

$12,500

Hydro Air Option

Peerless Purefire high efficiency floor mounted boiler, complete with 2-3 ton first company hydro air handlers, price includes, 2 honeywell zone valves, expansion tank, all controls for the broiler, fresh air and exhaust direct vented, condensate pump and drain, kryotec pumped into boiler, scale stopper, Yprk 3 ton AC condenser for the rest of the house, 2 line sets, 2 condenser pads, 2 whip and disconnects, all grilles, grill boxes, R8 flex for the upstairs, up to 6 runs of air cut in for upstairs. Changing original ductwork, as above.

$20,600

Optional add to 40 Gallon Superstore indirect to heat hot water, price includes honeywell zone valve and piping.

$1,500

Heat Pump for Upstairs Option York ZF036 Left details out.

$8,900

Fixing Ducting in basement and first floor if I go with 2nd floor unit.

$2,700

Contractor #2

1st Floor 50,000 BTU 95% efficient Ducane Gas Furnace

2 -ton 13 seer coil, same for condenser. Honeywell Pro 4000 Thermostat, supply/duct and return Duct Galvanized 26 gauge.

2nd Floor 50,000 BTU 95% efficient Gas Ducane Furnace ..same as first floor.

Wiring by others.

$12,000

Contractor #3

This is to keep furnace in basement and fix ducting and add Heat Pump to 2nd Fl.

Air Tempe 2 Ton Air Handler (410A Freon)

Air Tempe 2 ton Heat Pump

3/4 x 3/8 refrigerant lines

All galvanized Duct insulated to Code

All low voltage wiring

1 15 kw Heat Strip

All collars with dampers

All flexible silver hose to code

All condensate drains

All slim duct for refrigerant lines (outside)

1- 5/2 day programmable thermostat

start up and balancing units (no high voltage wiring)

Heat run in hallway downstairs, fix run in hallway downstairs, fix runs in bonus room, fix repairs to unit first floor.

$7,700

70,000 BTU Warm air furnace, everything else the same

$7,850

Contractor #4

NYSERDA certified contractor that did energy audit.

Low density Foam to most of house, leaving existing batting there. not going into detail here.

$11,800

Air Source Heat Pump Brand not given. 30,000 BTU with 8.5 HSPF.

$11,000

You never posted your propane and electricity costs so it is difficult to say which will be more economical to use for heating. If you do go with propane I think it will cost less in the long run if you buy your own tank. It also sets you up if natural gas ever becomes available in the future.

Does contractor #4 want to apply foam on top of existing insulation? If that is the case then I would drop him. He also has not given you a valid quote for the heat pump.

I assume contractor #3 just going to add a heat pump to the second floor and let you keep your old oil furnace. I would want to get rid of the dependency of oil. I am not familiar with the equipment he is proposing. It sounds like he is proposing the lowest cost equipment to keep prices down. I don't care for this option.

Contractor #2 is proposing two furnaces and condensers plus all the required duct work for $12000? This sounds a little too good to be true. The Ducane equipment must be low priced to come near this price or he is cutting a lot of corners. I am suspicious of this quote.

I think I like contractor #1 the best if I understand the quote correctly. One LP gas furnace and AC condenser in the basement with zoning for the two floors. I assume you are using the laundry chute to run the main supply and return ducts to the second floor. I feel better about the York equipment. You need to get a 2-stage AC as well as the furnace for the zoning to work well. Many contractors are not good at zoning so ask a lot of questions about how the zoning will work.

Keep your the hot water heater separate. In the future you can add a stand alone gas water heater to the LP supply. You may want to set up the piping now so it will be easy to add in the future.

Good luck.

Thank you mike_home. I'm not getting the foam...that's exactly what he was planning on doing--spraying over or around the existing, and I thought the same about his HP quote. So much for using the NYSERDA program...great interest rate but inflated pricing...total rip off.

So, I've decided to go with contractor #1. He was definitely more creative with where to run ductwork upstairs. Everyone else wanted to run ducts in roof peak. But he is coming straight across the front behind the knee wall, thereby giving me the option of making my ceiling higher in the middle with exposed collar ties. I will mention the 2 stage AC to him. I plan on waiting to change out water heater, but again, will mention setting up the piping now. Thank you.

The pricing for propane is a little better than oil in my area, but admittedly, in the end, probably negligible. However, the system itself will be more efficient so its a trade off and i eventually plan to get gas stove and gas logs for fireplace. I'm not getting an underground tank yet...we are putting 3 100 gal cylinders together for now. I'm on a small lot at a lake and everything you do needs a variance. I will save that problem for another day, lol.

Be aware that a gallon of propane supplies about 91,000 BTUs versus #2 oil which supplies about 138,500 BTUs. The efficiency of the propane furnace would have to be much higher to make up the difference.

It sounds like contractor #1 wants to work with you to come up with a good solution. Make sure he does a good job with the duct work!

Yes I think he does want to work with me and I'm confident he understands how to improve duct work. He's been in business in Orange County for about 30 years and has good reputation. I mentioned about the piping for the h/w heater and was told I may eventually want to go tankless which would just require another propane line. Not sure about that. I know they are very expensive. They are getting back to me about 2 stage AC...not included in quote. Hope it's not alot more money!

Hi mike_home, I just got the price of the 2 stage AC condenser that you mentioned I should get also if I want the zoning to work well. It would be an additional $4k which is alot more than I expected. How important is this..I was very happy that the new system was costing me less than $13k. I am scheduled to have the new system put in next week.

I don't understand why it is $4K more money. I would have expected $1500 maximum and that is being generous.

The furnace your are getting is variable speed so it can slow down some what one only one zone is calling for heating and cooling. The rule of thumb is 350-400 CFM per ton of cooling so a 4 ton unit would operate at 1400-1600 CFM.

You want to make sure the air flow does not exceed the capacity of the duct work when only one zone is operating. There are other ways of accomplishing this with bypasses.

I am not an expert in zoning. You should ask the contractor how the zoning is going to work when either zone is operating. Also ask him why a 2-stage condenser is so much more additional money. You have the furnace and coil so I he needs to explain the big price difference.

I was also surprised by the price difference, wasn't expecting that. I didn't speak to him, but according to the email I received, the price of $3965 was just for the unit, implying maybe there was even more labor cost involved. So tomorrow I will ask him these zoning questions and why unit is so much more expensive. Thanks again.

So, mike_home, it turns out she forgot to subtract the other AC condenser. Bottom line, it will be additional $1,965. But that's upgrading furnace to the York Affinity Series, Model # YP9C 2 stage high efficiency 98% AFUE and York 4 ton Affinity 2 stage condenser Model # CZH!

I am a little suspicious of a $2000 error in their favor. Watch this guy carefully.

I am not familiar with York furnaces. The York TM9V is a variable speed furnace so I would think it should work with the 2-stage AC. The extra 96% vs 98% efficiency difference will not make much difference in operating costs in my opinion. Ask if the first furnace is a valid match and how much less would it cost. Also ask why he is quoting the YP9C furnace.

She told me the that the TM9V would not work well or did not work with the affinity CZH. I suppose it was not a valid match?

I did a search on the AHRI directory. I found matches with the CZH condenser and the TM9V furnace. I could be wrong, but I think there are valid matches.

Has he given you the furnace size in the quote? He may have a valid reason why he thinks one furnace may operate better with the condenser versus the other. It should not matter given they are both have variable speed motors. If the price difference is small then it is not worth the argument. Your goal to make sure the zoning is going to work well regardless of which equipment you choose.

The difference was the $1965. Probably worth it. I'm ok with it. She said the unit was 100K. What does that mean?

The 100K probably means 100,000 Btuh Input to the furnace.

He is starting tomorrow with the ductwork and will be installing new furnace next week. I will ask him if he did a load calculation tomorrow. Thanks again for all your very good advice.

Knowing what the loads of the individual rooms are determines what size ducts need to be installed.

He said the reason he went with 100K was that the next size down, 80K, he felt was not enough. He said although it was on the high side, he could control...blowers... I think is what he said.

"Generally, I am being told that my oil furnace is probably at the end of its life, being at least approx. 25 years old and should consider replacing now. The 2nd contractor that wants to replace existing with 4 ton furnace, states that the current one is not large enough to handle the size of the house. The rest, so far, want to add a separate system for upstairs."
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When the cooling A-Coil is set directly on top of the furnace the huge oil furnace heat/exchanger causes a lot of restricted back-pressure leading to a big drop in static pressure which reduces the velocity of airflow.

That along with possibly improper duct design & return air filter areas would greatly reduce airflow.

I am betting a 60K would heat your hone in that climate.

Do your own whole house load-calc: http://www.loadcalc.net/

Or/and, do the floors separate. Print the instructions & follow them; including clicking on thr SIZING LINK when load-calc is satisfactory completed...