Well, I'm not sure I was stylistically colorblind, it was more an issue of liking a lot of different things, knowing I'll only ever build one house, and learning to resist the impulse to try to put every single individual thing I Iike into one project. You know-- I like chocolate and I like garlic, but... no! I think that's the kind of not thinking it through that takes you down the Hodgepodge Path.

And I ended up with the same tile in my bathroom as in my kitchen and the same custom cabinets throughout (diff counters) and even the same hardware (diff colors upstairs and down.) So continuity won out.

(And that is funny about the Dutch colonial Craftsman!)

Vedazu - definitely agree that of course decorating is important to this place and conversation. Was just trying to think about that certain TYPE of decoration - all at once, consistent, and with the eye of a designer, and how not popular it is for various reasons. One of which is lack of disposable income, especially for younger people who have been super hard hit by the recession. They know they can't have what the boomers had...it's simply out of their reach as the US declines as a superpower and income inequality grows to 1920s levels. The situation in Canada isn't much better although our student loan burden isn't as egregious. Of course I'm a gen exer, so we are naturally bitter.

Another of which I think is decor as a marker for nonconformity and personality. Many younger people can't afford non-thrifted good stuff, but the popularity of AT and YHL now shows that as a point of pride as people up cycle or whatever (things I'm too lazy to do, I always skip those parts). If you made it, it's a point of pride. I love the explosion of maker culture and I think 3-d printing heralds something so promising, interesting, and nontraditional. I'll probably hate it, aesthetically, but hey, young people are supposed to scandalize their elders, otherwise there would be no vitality.

A third is certainly resistance to received wisdom. My friends and I have had subpar experiences with interior designers - people who want to put their own stamp on your house with your money and don't pay attention to what you like. I know not all designers are like that, but it was probably a lot better life when you could tells client exactly what you wanted to do with their house and not have to pay much attention to their preferences. I doubt clients today, for the most part, are so easily led. And I think that is likely a good thing.

I'm also really into micro cultures. I think this is a huge social change from regionally based cultures to interest based cultures that has been facilitated by the internet over the last 20 years.

It's a point of pride to say that one only goes for quality, even if it's out of date, but this is very class dependent. I come from lower middle class and most of my relatives are lower lower class, e.g. homemade houses and trailers..there certainly were no hand me downs of mahogany furniture forthcoming. As interested as I am in old stuff and family treasures, there is not one thing in my house that's antiques roadshow worthy.

I'm building up a furniture collection slowly (about one teak piece a year). I touch it all up (lightly, as in oil) myself. But it will take many years or one heck of an inheritance to furnish my whole house with quality, even second hand. I waited two years for the right hutch at the right price to show up in my life. I'm not skilled at decor, but I acknowledge that's a lot of patience to ask of most people. And part of that is preference....I could forgo the trips and the gym and spend more on decor, or I could keep going about it in a very slow, bargain shopping type of way. Meantime, the bones if the house get most of my budget because that's where I see getting more of my money back, and in a money-scarce environment, certain things take priority over others.

" If you want your home to have a voice, you're mostly on your own. " kiwigem, good point. Tangential to that is, how does one become educated about styles and style consistency? And if most people are unaware that such a thing exists or not interested to begin with, what hope is there for visual refinement in everyday design? Maybe we are asking too much here. Perhaps fine style will always be the preserve of a wealthy, educated few.

Like robotropolis (excellent post, robotrop), I come from humble means. My ancestors were happy just to have a home with running water inside. Style wasn't part of their thinking -- they had to expend their energies merely keeping a roof over their heads. I loved to look at pretty homes, though, from my childhood and would dream of living in one. It's not like my parents pointed these things out to me: they didn't pass on a style sense because they didn't have one. Or maybe they simply ignored something beyond their means -- why hope for it if you can't get it? I assume most of my generation came from the same stylistic ignorance, and the next generations will draw the same blank for the same reasons. If you're not taught it, odds are slim that you'll acquire it.

My son & DIL are closing on their first home today, a 60s raised ranch. We are going to descend on it this afternoon in a cleaning fury, preparing the insides for their first coats of fresh paint in decades. Hoping to change out a few ugly 60s fixtures too (bad style isn't a recent phenomenon). My DIL is bubbling with excitement. I'm sure she will give the insides the millennial spin. Maybe we should post pics so marcolo can tell us what not to do!

sorry marcolo, couldn't resist poking you in the ribs ;)

Part of the problem of the general dilution of consistency is that the consumer didn't have easy, complete, unrestricted access to all the options available.

When I went to design school at the beginning of this century, when I wanted a catalog of the complete line of Kohler bathroom faucets, I had to order a catalog and pay $20 for it. If I wanted a catalog of GE appliances so I could take my kitchen course, I had to order a catalog and pay $20 for it. This was in 1999 or so not 1950.

This was a double-edge sword. If you were a consumer working on a project and went to a showroom or dealt with a salesperson, you probably gave them an idea of what you wanted and then they showed you a shortlist.

My parents had one interior designer that took copious notes of what they seemed to want and presented them with a scheme that had ONE central fixture and ONE set of sconces and ONE wallpaper and ONE mirror for the bathroom. If they didn't like one of the selections she would show them another one or two.

I think one of the reasons that people seem to have trouble working with interior designers is because they no longer want the interior designer to do the winnowing out, they want to see all 1000 options of everything--so they are hiring the dog and then staying up all night and barking for it, so to speak. ---And then they aren't happy with the results.

The down side of the old way was when you needed to replace something like a kitchen faucet and you ended up with whatever the plumber had on his truck.

But generally I think that the internet and unfettered, unrestricted access to all 10,000 options you have for everything is what has Ruined design consistency.
It takes real discipline to look at 1000 A 1000 B and 1000 C and come up with an ABC combination that Really works, and most people lack the discipline. I didn't have it before I went to design school, I don't think. Not to the extent I have it now, anyway.

" I think that the internet and unfettered, unrestricted access to all 10,000 options you have for everything is what has Ruined design consistency.
It takes real discipline to look at 1000 A 1000 B and 1000 C and come up with an ABC combination that Really works, and most people lack the discipline. I didn't have it before I went to design school, I don't think. Not to the extent I have it now, anyway. "

Pal nails it. As bronwynsmom used to say, editing is as important as putting things together.

"But generally I think that the internet and unfettered, unrestricted access to all 10,000 options you have for everything is what has ruined design consistency. It takes real discipline to look at 1000 A 1000 B and 1000 C and come up with an ABC combination that really works, and most people lack the discipline."

This simple statement might be one of the most brilliant things I've ever read on this board.

First, I don't see what poverty stories have to do with anything. My mother literally wore flour sacks made into underwear as a child. There was an outhouse. For Christmas she got one orange. She had to quit high school to help support her family. Dad worked in a factory his whole life, and not in a high paying gig like the auto workers. They still served me dinner on Wedgewood.

Second, I don't think it's that hard to learn to edit, at least a little. Every Design Around thread has people who comment that they've learned to edit their ideas just from that one exercise. The difference is they're open to learning. Today a lot of people think they already know it all. They watch the Food Network, so they're chefs. They watch HGTV or surf Houzz, so they're design experts.

Well I blame the design industry itself--or at least the part of the design industry that is connected to the media for the "design expert" phenomenon. I really chafe when I hear a "designer" on television do something and then say "This is Easy! ANYONE can do this!"

Really. Then why is interior design a licensed profession requiring CE courses in some states, and why did I waste $X0,000s on tuition and time on getting a degree?

But this sort of confidence is also self-regulated and not necessarily warranted and they have shown that people who perform poorly are often more self confident than people who perform well in some studies. In my other profession a newly graduated Dr. in our practice watched (intermittently) when I was doing a surgical procedure that, while it is pretty straightforward I think it was about ten years of doing it over and over before I felt there were few surprises. At the end of the procedure (which she had only watched parts of) she said "Thanks! Well that looks easy enough, I think I can do this procedure on my own patients now and I don't have to wait for them to fit into your schedule! Awesome!"

While interior design is hardly as training-specific as a surgery, on the other hand it is a bit off putting to do a design job for a client only to have them turn around and "practice interior design" on a family member who doesn't want to pay a designer, because they "know how it works, now".

I think the reference to financial means was in response to your statement that "Cheap=builder. Expensive=consistent," marcolo. I don't think anyone was trying to be gratuitous. You do have a point though, in that even people of modest means used to wait, save, and make investment purchases far more than people do now. My father came to the US with his family in the 1950's. My gandfather repaired bridges and my grandmother cleaned houses. They would save for years to invest in a stereo, china cabinet, down comforter, etc. The "buy the best, cry once" mentality really has its merits...Their stuff is still going strong, and even if it's not my style, there's no denying it's all beautiful.

Part of what is going on is that home improvement has become an monster industry in the last 20 years. Builders and home improvement stores don't want us to understand or achieve timeless, consistent design. They want us to buy new and trendy in an attempt to achieve "bold and eclectic" so that in three years we all look around and think, "What sugared-up tween decorated this place?" and we do it all again, only boring this time.

I haven't read through all of the comments, but I do want to point out something about "consistency" vs. "builder repetitive."

I've never lived in a house that is over 1200 square feet. The consistency in smaller homes gives a more cohesive look to the overall place.

Also, since my family was not wealthy, rooms were decorated with inexpensive materials and whatever was available. That means we used carpet remnants for different bedrooms, etc. So each room had different colors for carpeting, wall paint, and furniture styles. When something like a faucet handle broke, it was replaced with whatever was available from local DIY store or plumber. So, for me, matching finishes = "consistency" = planned and higher quality items (not necessarily talking about lower-quality cabinetry from DIY stores).

So, personally, I like consistency - and durability and beauty.

A Christmas present for Marcolo:

I was just--today!--cleaning out a drawer filled with recipes that my mother, now deceased, had clipped from local newspapers (apparently.)

Here's a Pioneer Orange Cake:
"A Gheen (MN) pioneer, Mrs. Oscar Hanson, used this recipe. With ten children to feed, she knew that everyone could share in the one orange that's in it. "

1 cup sugar 1/2 c. shortening 2 eggs 1 orange
1 cup raisins 2/3 cups sour milk 2 cups flour
1 tsp soda 1/2 tsp salt.
Cream shortening and sugar. Add eggs and beat well. Sift flour, soda and salt. Grind orange and raisins together, reserving juice. Alternately add flour mixture and sour milk, then stir in the fruit. Bake in greased 9 x 13 pan 40 to 45 minutes at 350. Mix 1/2 cup sugar with the orange juice and spread over hot cake.

Let us know if it is good!

Sounds fun. I admire their resourcefulness, but I long ago decided to steer clear of recipes that include "sour milk." And there are a lot of them.

palimpsest, I learn so much from the discussions you start. This is all fascinating and gives me many things to consider and research while continuing with my home projects.

My feeble comments follow:

Re older generations saving for the good stuff and the younger generations buying junk: I think it's because there are so few things anymore that are actually quality items. When I was growing up, some brands were known as quality items and were worth saving for. Now, in large part, brands that claim quality really aren't any better than the cheaper brands in the long run. At least not in my experience. I read people in the Kitchens forum complaining about performance issues with very expensive brands that are considered high-end. Why pay more for something that still has build and performance issues?

I also have to comment that I never heard the term "dated" in reference to home design, especially kitchens and bathrooms, until I started frequenting GW. I see photos of people tearing out perfectly fine kitchens that seem to have good function just because they look dated. I'm not saying someone shouldn't redo something if they truly don't like it or if it doesn't work for them. But to redo something just because it looks so 80's? Well, maybe a different color paint and new hardware is all it takes to make it something you like. Or new window treatments. And if the house was built in the 80's, it probably does look 80's. Unless you truly don't like that aesthetic, what's wrong with that?

I guess I'm a bit of a purist. I don't understand a modest ranch having a Tuscan kitchen or being gussied up with fancy moldings that aren't used in the rest of the house. I think people should work with the bones of the house not against them.

Regarding Millenials: I find it interesting that my experience is so different than many of you are describing. Most of the Millenials I know (my kids and their friends) are thrifty as heck. Those who have bought homes have bought very small, modest homes seeking good locations and not a McMansion. In fact, most of them scoff at McMansions more than I do. A couple are in the process of building tiny homes. One is about 450sf while the other is only about 220. When my son and his wife get done working overseas, they have spoken of building a small yurt at about 1000sf, give or take. Of course, most of these kids have student loans that are eating up their budgets at bigger chunks than most of us Boomers dealt with as a percentage of income.

Back to the original topic: I don't think most of us have the time to learn enough about the different styles out there to tell a Craftsman column from a Victorian or whatever. So most of us are going to make inconsistent mistakes. I do think that most of us have the ability to look at our home and see that if, for example, the home has ornate moldings and trims that, yes, more ornate fixtures in the bathrooms would look appropriate to the house. Or that a simpler, more humble home should have more humble bathrooms and fixtures. Again, this comes back to going with the bones of the home when making design decisions. It also takes longer to do this and many folks don't have the time or interest, unfortunately.

And sometimes the right materials to bring a home back to its bones to be architecturally consistent are extremely difficult, if not impossible, to find.

I wrote more than I intended. Hope I added something to the discussion.

"I can't imagine proposing to my husband that we add $80K to our mortgage so I can get nice custom drapes and matching wallpaper. "

No, the idea is that one has 20% to 30% of the purchase price in reserve in cash to furnish the house, not to add that amount to the mortgage! During the run up to the housing market crash of 2008, lenders were making 125% loan-to-value home loans, not the traditional 80%, so new owners could furnish, go on vacation, pay for college, buy crack....all those expenses that should not have been affected by the mortgage IF the income and debt ratios were appropriate and the down payment was at the magic 20%.

There was a new house in my neighborhood that had an empty living room for a number of years. It was a matter of discussion among kids in the neighborhood, who probably mostly saw it when trick or treating each year.

The discussion wasn't of a judgmental nature so much as that these seemingly normal people would live in a house with rooms they couldn't use/ didn't need to use...what did this mean?

Not being in debt can be more wonderful than a roomful of furniture.
I am resourceful and creative enough to pull together a room nearly free, but many people will not or don't know how to do so. I have a good friend, a designer (owns a large firm) who would not buy a cheap grill for her backyard until she could gut and redo the entire space for $$$. It's gorgeous, but I can't live that way.
I think in their mind, by claiming the area with a grill and a plastic chair, the horrors!, it said to the world, I am happy with this. By leaving it alone, it was a blank canvas to be be filled with rocks and built ins, quality furniture and plants.
So, she went years without ever grilling ( I love grilled food) in order to do it right once.

Of course I grew up in a relatively low-housing cost area, (although other things were the same as everywhere else and food was rather more expensive)...but my parents made sure they built a house they could afford to furnish and saved the money for furniture in advance. (After our college funds). A bigger way to not go into debt, I would think, is not to avoid buying furniture, but to avoid building a house that is too big or too expensive for you to be able to afford going into other forms of debt in order to live. I have known people who ran up maximums on credit cards to EAT so they could build a house (with a four-car garage).

I don't think most of us have the time to learn enough about the different styles out there to tell a Craftsman column from a Victorian or whatever.

I think anyone with enough time to Pin 200 kitchen photos, sort through 1100 cup pulls on Top Knobs, and sit in front of a House Hunters marathon has enough time to learn whether they live in a Craftsman or a Victorian.

The real problem is not just that people don't know; it's that they don't listen. I could, but won't, point you to several active threads on GW where the OPs are trying to aggressively wreck their houses. One is trying to turn a Georgian into a barn, or maybe a boathouse. Anybody who points this out is just not "visionary" enough. In the same way, my neighbor in the Dutch colonial still describes it as a Craftsman with a smug, knowing smile. Pure ignorance. Proud ignorance. If you don't listen, you'll never learn

I agree with not going in to debt, but sometimes everything can't be had at once, and if the house size, location, etc, fits current needs, than waiting awhile to finish, furnish is ok to me.

It's that "awhile" element that varies so much as to how long people are willing to wait.
I made some drastic architectural changes in my houseplans in order to bring everything under a certain amount. The house is paid off, but I wish I had spent a little more money on certain permanent items, not cutting the vaulted ceiling in the master bedroom, for instance, but I did that to have money to furnish everything in a reasonably short time, although many things are still in upgrade mode.
Maybe if I had waited longer on furnishings, I would have a better master bedroom. That hindsight!
Anyway, being debtfree is very freeing.

I think anyone with enough time to Pin 200 kitchen photos, sort through 1100 cup pulls on Top Knobs, and sit in front of a House Hunters marathon has enough time to learn whether they live in a Craftsman or a Victorian.

The real problem is not just that people don't know; it's that they don't listen. I could, but won't, point you to several active threads on GW where the OPs are trying to aggressively wreck their houses. One is trying to turn a Georgian into a barn, or maybe a boathouse. Anybody who points this out is just not "visionary" enough. In the same way, my neighbor in the Dutch colonial still describes it as a Craftsman with a smug, knowing smile. Pure ignorance. Proud ignorance. If you don't listen, you'll never learn

----------------------

Touche, Marcolo, touche. I just got blasted on Houzz for stating that someone ruined their kitchen by removing the original birch 1950's cabinets in their ranch and replacing them with an ornate style, don't recall which particular style, with huge crown moldings.

I've had crazy suggestions by people about my own home. Like to paint the fantastic brick fireplace with raised hearth, a few built-in shelves, and a lovely brick wall on the back side facing the entry. What? It's the original 1949 brick, in fantastic shape, longer and narrow than current brick that epitomizes MCM style. To drywall over the last remaining original plywood walls...and not the cheap stuff but with a lovely grain that looks rich and which I am trying to find to replace where it has been ruined elsewhere in the house. To cover the fantastic original linoleum that still looks brand new (rescued from under pink shag carpet). I've had people tell me to make my kitchen Tuscan or French Provincial. What? Seriously...what the heck? Amazing.

Again, I think people should try to keep with the bones of the house. Some don't seem to have a clue of what I'm talking about when I say that. I'm sure you do. And, no, this doesn't mean you have to make your home a time capsule.

Now, if someone can point me to some great Boomerang cabinet handles, I'll be a happy camper!

"...the consumer didn't have easy, complete, unrestricted access to all options available."

IMO, Millenials value access over ownership, and the business model adapted:
Transportation - lease car for 3 years to quicky access new model. If urban, use bike share or Zipcar.
Cellphone plans - 2 year contract to get newest technology.
ST Housing - AirBnB for 6 weeks instead of lease.
Consumables - Renttherunway, Bagborrowsteal, Beautybox, etc.
Entrepreneurship - Kickstarter to fund business idea, no need for SBA loan.

IMO, furniture rental remains down market. (there may be an opportunity here?)

A "sale" is no longer necessary IF the goods are available in a rental manner for the next generations.
The market is aware of the demographics. I've read Millenials are larger in # than Boomers. Stagnant wages and student/professional debt influence consumption.
Adapt or die.
~bgj

Consistency is virtually impossible without the guiding force of a Idea behind it. Which is almost impossible to achieve within the current short attention span popular culture. You have to develop that trait through education, not 1 minute YouTube videos.

Also, when you try point out the fragmentation or dilution of that Idea into a lesser creation than the Existing Idea, you are accused of being against Updating. As if Updating the Outdated should be ipso facto The Idea. Paint all of that 8'' quarter sawn oak trim white, and all the walls gray, and stain the floors ebony, throw in a turquoise chalk painted (used to be) priceless antique and you'll be amongst the Updated Cognoscenti. Lowest common denominator Houzz mob rule is rarely innovative, but it does have ''consistency'' behind it to disguise it as an actual Viewpoint. It just doesn't have the ability to Discern behind it.

It's The Idea, the Parti, behind the choices that separates consistency from bulder grade repetitive. Design is the difference. Fadshion isn't Design.

I really long for the day that the Design Hippocratic Oath becomes mass popularized. First, Do No Harm. Tuscan decor would never have gained a foothold if people just Stopped and thought about that First Principle.

I think many of the houses built for most of the 20 century can withstand sensitive updates. Not every house built in 1950 needs to have a bathroom that looks like it's from 1950. It's just better that it doesn't look like it's a bathroom from 1920. It can probably look like any bathroom After 1950 as long as it fits in with the relative "scale" or "modesty" of the house (even if the house is immodest). But the problem with a 1950 house and a millennial bath is that the bath will tend to reference a bath from 1920 and be out of sync with the house scale wise. So it's not updating In Itself that the people accused of being purists or anti-updating chafe against, it's that the millennial style bath or kitchen often fights the rest of the house.

As far as interior design goes, it's not my particular feeling that the Furniture needs to go with the style of the house, necessarily. The Scale can be a problem, but antiques can look fine in a modernist house and contemporary can work fine in an antique house.

I think many of the houses built for most of the 20 century can withstand sensitive updates. Not every house built in 1950 needs to have a bathroom that looks like it's from 1950. It's just better that it doesn't look like it's a bathroom from 1920. It can probably look like any bathroom After 1950 as long as it fits in with the relative "scale" or "modesty" of the house (even if the house is immodest). But the problem with a 1950 house and a millennial bath is that the bath will tend to reference a bath from 1920 and be out of sync with the house scale wise. So it's not updating In Itself that the people accused of being purists or anti-updating chafe against, it's that the millennial style bath or kitchen often fights the rest of the house.

I've mentioned before that the previous owner of my 1951 MCM split "updated" the bathroom to Victorian oak. When I get to redoing it, I won't be returning it to 1951 style - more likely something that evokes the spirit in a more contemporary way.

On the other hand, my plans for the kitchen entail reconfiguring but preserving the original cabinets. I do worry about how this might affect selling the house if I want to in the next few years. I might be cursed with people who have watched too much House Hunters and think they deserve brand-new cabinets.

On the other hand, this house is almost the only one in the town for which there has ever been a bidding war. There are other MCM houses in the town, but they're all much larger.

This post was edited by okmoreh on Sat, Dec 27, 14 at 16:18

Pal - I don't understand why a 20's bath would be _out of scale_ in a 50's home. Could you explain that?

A 1920s bath might not be out of scale in a 1950s house, but it wouldn't make stylistic sense.

A 1950s bath would make stylistic sense in a 1920s house, because it would be a remodel that makes temporal sense. Plus, new styles were still being developed in the post WWII period, updating a house in something current can make sense as a natural progression.. A millennial bath might make sense in a 1920s house because they Reference the 1920s. A purely contemporary bath could make sense in a 1920s house, again because, on a timeline, it makes sense.

A 1920s period-style bath would look out of place in a 1950s house because it's design-going-backwards, and that's the same sort of problem with the millennial bath (subway, etc.) in the 1950s house--it references an earlier period--it's not really a new style.

Right, ok. Thanks.
Could you argue that subway tile is a 200x - today phenomenon- in other words, it is a contemporary style? Not strictly 1920's or earlier? Because it is just *so* prevalent now. You can't get square 4.25" tiles at Home Depot anymore. Just subways.

Or maybe this is what you mean when you say that we have no style anymore, ha ha!

There are a lot of fancy-cut mosaic tiles which never existed before the 2000's. That is sort of something new, isn't it?

I would agree that 3x6 subway in a bath that is otherwise not referencing something too "historical", say, combined with glass tile, large glass enclosed showers etc. is a milliennial style, of sorts.

Just a few weeks ago, my Home Depot had tons of square 4x4 tiles in different colors. I wonder if that's a regional thing? Or maybe they're gone now? I'll check as I need to pop in there in the next few days.

Pal, how I love your posts! And Marcolo, how I've missed your posts!

For me, I approach design like fashion. I dress my rooms. I think of the architecture of the home like my frame. As in fashion, there are some things that fit my home and many things that don't. I'm not the most fashionable person I know but, although my mother is completely blind in her design eye, she taught me how to choose classic pieces of clothing and mix and match pieces. I use a lot of those same principles when putting together the rooms in my home. To me, buying all of the same fixtures would be akin to buying the same top and bottom just in different colors. Much the same as duplicating a room from a magazine is like buying the outfit off the mannequin. These are the things I did before I knew better. They are also the things that would read as builder repetitive to me.

None of my bathrooms have matching fixtures, however, they are integral to the design of each room and each room "rhymes" with the house.

Yes, Millenials value access over ownership. They want what they want, when they want it, for as long as they want it, then want no more responsibility for it.

Well, it's nice to want. But we can't always have what we want.

The rental model works up to a point. You can make it work for transportation. Zipcar, Uber, etc. are profitable business models that can replace the need to own a car in some locales. Music? There's a lot of discussion whether the industry will survive. Where downloads threatened the big distribution companies, streaming is threatening the income of the artists themselves. Book authors are coming under similar pressure. TV may be next, now that Millenials want to pull the plug on cable but also don't want to pay subscription fees or watch ads. They truly believe it is other people's duty to entertain them for free.

In the same way, renters increasingly demand all-new, all-updated when they move in. There's another active thread where a real estate agent talks about a potential renter becoming outraged to discover that a brand new kitchen would not be gutted before move-in. There is no business model that will support this fantasy. Every apartment cannot be gutted in between every tenant, not at the rental prices Millennials want to pay.

Adapt or die? Yes, Millenials will need to.

This veers more off topic but the renters who rented my house before I could move into it asked that the entire house be painted and that the carpet be replaced before they moved in.

The entire house had just been painted and recarpeted before I bought it. The carpet is a not bad color (dark khaki tan I suppose) and the paint color on everything was a slightly peachy mismatch to the carpet. It looked good for staging but was a bit dismal I guess.

There excuse for wanting all new carpet was "cat allergies". When I pointed out that there were rolls of leftover, obviously new carpet in the house and that the house still had a new carpet smell they still said they would be "more comfortable" if I would replace the carpet.

At this point I said I would be more comfortable letting them out of the lease agreement if they were worried about allergens in the carpet.

At this point they said "Well, honestly, we just think the carpet is an ugly color and the rental agent said you would change it and paint".

I did paint their bedrooms and bathroom in colors of their choice because I didn't want them doing it amateurishly and sloppily.

They ruined the new carpet in less than two years. We still have it, but there are black stains all over it that won't come out. Some of them are vomit, we saw the pictures on Twitter.

I don't think this is restricted to Millennials necessarily. I have a friend who rented a (very nice) shore house for years to middle-aged families and she said she got tired of people "Demanding the Ritz-Carlton at move-in, and leaving it like a bad Motel-6 at move-out".

@funkycamper, re: Just a few weeks ago, my Home Depot had tons of square 4x4 tiles in different colors. I wonder if that's a regional thing?

It must be. I asked the HD sales associate and they said they don't carry them anymore. BUT, I just checked Lowe's and they have them.

"Demanding the Ritz-Carlton at move-in, and leaving it like a bad Motel-6 at move-out".

Boy oh boy is that true!

But you should add that they "lived out" their security deposit and still think they should get every dime back. And they have no problem leaving back feedback that you can't reply too.

Like the tenant the knew we prorated over 3 years, but oh we are going to be here a lot longer than that, forgot they had another child that put them over the max legal occupancy, painted their names on the wall and forgot to clean as they left. They wrote about how we kept part of their deposit when they moved out after 11 months. (they had found some one to let them live rent free but at the last minute it fell apart and I could not allow them to stay)

The unit had gutted redone bathrooms, new tile everywhere but the bedrooms that had new carpet/pad, new blinds, new appliances, new stone counters, new backsplash, new about everything but the kitchen cabinets. They had to find a place before we said we would be done and they came and begged and begged to move in sooner. My guys put in some weekends (OT) and got it done. We don't use cheap paint or painters (SW) and they got billed to clean up after them and repaint the flat walls only.

Their review included they left the unit cleaner than when they moved in.....hello....it was all new! I would love to post photos of that unit because it was NICE before them.

Or the nice family that said they would be here for the long term, guess they forgot about the foreclosure they were buying but had not hit their credit report yet. They were irate that we did not repaint every apartment FREE every 3 months

Or they guy that said it was our fault his foot went through our cheap door....

It goes on and on, but they want magazine shoot ready at move in and when trashed at move out it is all "normal wear and tear"

In college how many of us were told it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission? This group has taken that thought to the extreme.

This is a pride of ownership complex, not some slum, we have great long term residents for the most part, but you sure can tell the difference between the new and the old.

(FYI HD has white 4x4, 6x6 tile etc)

There have always been bad tenants. But the degree to which people expect gutted new upon move-in, complete with granite, clear shower doors etc. is post-House Hunters.

post-House Hunters.

I remember an episode, now years ago, in which the would-be buyer proclaimed, "I wouldn't put my wedding china in her old cabinets!"

I'm not sure whether the sense was supposed to be that the wedding china deserved new cabinets, or that old cabinets could not be cleaned. At the time, I thought the latter, i.e., that sanitation required everything to be brand-new.

I think what happened originally on House Hunters is that they were coached, because the show was rather dull if you wanted dialog.

If you look at very old episodes, the agent would say "And here's the bathroom" they would say "Okay" or "A little small" and generally be pretty non-committal. Then they got coached to sound more picky and make it more dramatic. And perhaps now it Attracts people who want to be picky and dramatic. I dunno, I don't watch it anymore.

I know several people who have been involved in House Hunters and other such "reality" television and it's not reality at all, of course.

My niece was on one because her hairstylist nominated her as a very picky client. That much no one would argue about, but when she got a great cut and color on the taped segment, they wanted her to throw a tantrum anyway and when she wouldn't, tried to manipulate and coerce her into doing so. Her segment was dropped because she wouldn't cooperate (lie, and embarrass herself or her stylist).

So now people who are exposed to such antics on TV think that even the mundane task of renting an apartment or buying a house are Supposed to be drama filled.

Wow that's really something. No wonder no one knows how to behave anymore.

So now people who are exposed to such antics on TV think that even the mundane task of renting an apartment or buying a house are Supposed to be drama filled.

About 15 years ago, my friend the HS guidance counselor told me the drama of HS was ramped up and she blamed shows like 90210 and Real World. She was 20 years into her career and felt she definitely witnessed a decline in civility and respect and increase in unnecessary drama and obnoxiousness.

Those drama-loving kids are now the young adults looking for post college apartments and houses.

Hhireno, 90210 was a staple of my HS years. It's been 18 years since I graduated from college. I'm in the prime of my career now, and moving into my 3rd house. My HS classmates are turning 40.

I disagree with pal's assessment that the exposure to more options is what causes the builder repetitiveness. It's lack of options, IMO. When I see something that screams builder basic, it's because it's the same builder basic option I've seen in 47 other model homes, and every big box or plumbing store I've been to in the last 10 years. The people who spend the time looking for something different, rather than picking from the 3 options provided by the builder, or grabbing the first thing on the shelf at Lowe's, don't have builder basic homes.

The idea that everything needs to match is appalling to me. IMO, it stems from a tract builder's attempts to keep costs down. And not only does everything need to match, it's usually the cheapest option.

If a house in 1940 had multiple bathrooms, it was a very large, fancy house, and I wouldn't expect both (all) bathrooms to have the same faucet. Or if it did, it wasn't because it was a Home Depot special. Today, a house with multiple bathrooms might be more mainstream and "modest", but it doesn't need to be treated like a cottage.

Your parents 1950s house may have had everything match, but it was chosen by a designer, and therefore wasn't the cheapest available, and seen in every house on the block.

Oh, I don't think the exposure to thousands of options on the internet leads to builder repetitiveness. I think it leads to some sort of inconsistency of choices that, in turn, leads to an overall blandness because the "whole" lacks any sort of consistency between individual elements.

I see lots of bathrooms that have a faucet that sorta looks like the tub/shower set that sorta looks like the towel bars, that sorta look like the lighting that sorta go with the tub, sink and toilet that are all slightly different themselves. They are not different enough to create a mixed eclectic appearance; they are not The Same Enough to make any sort of cohesive statement.

This combined with the primary and accent walls in paint, the field tile and the feature tile and the accent tile --it ends up being bland, ironically, and having a bland similarity to the new bathroom down the street, because the same sorts of "unique" features have been blended together in each case.

My bathroom may end up like that. But it's more due to function than design. The shower options that worked the way I wanted didn't have a matching tub filler. Freestanding tub fillers are freaking expensive, so there's no way I'd have chosen that based on what shower controls were available. The sink faucet will probably match the shower controls. But the shower heads will be a different company because I didn't like what came with the controls.

Tiles, well, I want larger format tiles on the floor. But I can't have large tiles on the shower floor, for safety. There's nothing out there that has large format floor tile and a matching mosaic for the shower that I like. So "sorta match" is going to have to do. Or, matching, but not really very nice.

And if I found a product that matched each other all nicely packaged by a manufacturer, it probably wouldn't match the style of my house.

It's a LOT of work to find products that fit the function, don't cost more than my first car, and play nice together. Most people aren't interested in that effort. And most people aren't looking for unique. If it's the same as every house on the street, then they know it's trendy and they're happy.

It is a problem when you don't like all the components of a particular line of products and I am facing this myself.

The faucets I like come with a shower diverter that is pressure balance, temperature control only. No volume control, no hand shower option.

The ONE line of bath/shower components that has these features that I like that also goes with the faucets I like (I don't like it's sink faucet, too contemporary) comes with a tub filler that is ungainly and looks like a sexual device. It's awful. I wanted a better shower head than was offered with either.

If I wanted a neo-Edwardian style with "blob" details I would have my choice of hundreds.

@Hydragea, well, I guess my HD no longer carries them either. The only 4x4 tiles left were white, very few black, and a teensy selection of semi-opaque glass ones. But they didn't have any subway to speak of either. Just tiles in various shapes/sizes made to try to mimic stone. No color anywhere.

What an interesting thread! I'm in the midst of renovating a 1956 home and am trying to do things in a way that compliment the ranch style of the home without being restricted by it (if that makes sense). Personally, I prefer some mixing of styles. One issue I spend too much time thinking about is crown molding - should I add it - trim - should I change it - and doors/knobs - the knobs will be changed but to what finish/design and my doors are flat panel, should I get paneled doors. I would love help from a designer but the ones I see are either very traditional or lean too much towards a sort of anything goes slightly flea market vibe. I can't afford the ones who design the rooms in Elle Decor that I droll over.

I do have a kitchen designer helping me with my kitchen reno and he is so wonderful because he distills everything into 1-2 choices. I find that what is important is keeping in mind the big picture - we are using white quartz and a reclaimed wood countertop material. I would have never picked white quartz on its own but as an element in the whole design it works.

I think maybe some homes don't look good because they aren't designed with cohesion in mind. Most of my friends seem to purchase that sort of square or rectangular furniture that is the norm in places like the pottery barn etc. Very few spend money on nice pieces or the time to purchase good vintage despite professional careers. It doesn't seem to be a priority.

And for backsplash I have been thinking a marble subway tile but I may tile it in a non-traditional pattern. When I get to the bathroom renovations I really don't know what kind of tile (4x4 or subway) I'll go with.

Palimpset, if you don't mind sharing what is the bathroom fixture that you do like? I'm very curious.

I like the Kohler Triton faucet (Left, toward the beginning of this thread), or the Kohler Taboret if you need something heavier/larger (Right, in the same photo).

If you are okay with just temperature control for the shower, I think the shower valves look pretty good for the period, too). If you need volume control and diverters for a hand shower I think the Brizo Odin shower valve works well with the above, but I do not like the Odin Tub Filler.

There are plenty of other nice looking faucets and valves out there but not many that reference the 1950s or early 1960s that are readily available. The Kohler options happen to have been designed then and are still in their line-up.

amberm145: You mentioned that you'd like larger format tiles on your bathroom floor and a matching mosaic for the shower. We have 13" square travertine-style tile on our master bath floor, and the installer cut those same tiles down to 3.5" squares for the shower stall. So that may be something for you to consider.

I've really enjoyed reading through this thread and all the differing points of view. I wish I'd known more about design and architecture than I did when we had our house built (in a "American Foursquare" 1920's style with Craftsman elements) 10 years ago, but we researched as much as we could at the time and are still learning. I used to beat myself up more for all the mistakes I felt we'd made, but now I try (and mostly succeed) to focus more on what I think we did right. I'm too practical to completely redo things that still function just fine, but I think about how I might re-do some of the things that still bug me over time. Some of you purists would shudder at the variety in finishes throughout our house (we did all pedestal sinks in the 3 baths, but different hardware finishes in each, for example). I have plenty of regrets I could fixate on in our house, but mixing hardware finishes isn't one of them.

For us, having many things in an unfinished state (for example, our living room table/chairs were recently re-glued/refinished but the chair seats need to be reupholstered before we can actually USE them) is mainly due to my indecisiveness rather than a lack of finances to get projects done... I tend to over think things to the point of the ridiculous and drive even myself crazy sometimes, and I also feel like if it's something I can do myself (painting, window treatments, etc.), then I should. So everything takes time, and with young kids that's often a scarce resource.

I've thought about asking for design advice from a professional, and will if we ever re-do our kitchen cabinets (my main regret after our build), but for now I'm trying to learn on my own here and from old house mags and such. I also come from a working class background and have lived in areas of poverty (including a mud hut in a 3rd world country), so the whole concept of design feels sort of indulgent and I guess it makes me feel guilty sometimes to even care about such things... But I do.

Wow, I never thought of this quite this way. I re-did all 4 baths in my home, over 3 years. The first 2 were the powder room and upstairs guest room.
Powder room has expresso cabinet and formality/drama - the formality and colors go with the first floor and the cabinet looks like a piece of furniture, schoenbek mini chandelier, fun glass sink and brushed nickel faucet. Toto toilet. White.
Guest bath - onyx and travertine tiles, onyx counter, polished nickel fixtures. Am. Standard toilet, white. Kohler devonshire sink white.
Kids bath - Caesarstone counter (nougat) and interesting white floor tile, blue-gray glass tile (one full shower wall), frameless glass around shower. toto toilet and sink. Chrome fixtures - symbols. Same shower head (hans grohe) as guest bath.
Master bath - gray and white scheme. Gray tile, superwhite counter, marble tile accents and backsplash. Polished nickel fixtures, all Rohl.
So my intent was to not have the same bath in any one room, to have all basically pretty neutral, and a high-end look and great function. Reason for no natural stone in kids bath - well, nail polish, hair spray, nothing damages Caesarstone (yet). very happy with choices!

almondstriations, thank-you for the suggestion. I have considered that, but it wouldn't work for me. Cut edges on the shower floor makes me cringe. Maybe I could find an amazing tile setter who could do a better job of cutting them than I do myself. But labour here is REALLY expensive, and nobody seems to be lacking for work. So I suspect that it would be more than the cost of the tiles. Or, anyone who would be willing to do it probably wouldn't be the one who would do a good job at it.

phylhl, I like the sound of your bathrooms. Everything's different, but the differences speak to the purpose of the room.

My grandmothers were both interested in decor. No 2 rooms in either of their houses were the same. On Mom's side, it was because she was redoing a room pretty much every year, so having them all match just wouldn't be possible. On the other side, she pretty much did the house when she and Grandpa bought it (in the 80s), and it stayed that way until long after she died (late 90s). But she had the money to do whatever she wanted in each room, no putting in the same carpet throughout just to reuse the remnants for her. There were probably a dozen different colours of carpet in that house, and at least 2 lino patterns.

I don't think either of those houses lacked "flow". The common style throughout both homes was "1980s Grandmother". :D

They both used some beautiful materials because they weren't restricted to having to match the rooms 2 floors away.

Thanks for posting the faucet information. They are excellent midcentury options. Funny my plumber said we have to use a single faucet and couldn't just switch out the pieces to a three piece. I might check on that with a second opinion.

Weekend Wall Street Journal had a design article that mentioned that mixing up metals in a space is in - it made me think of this thread.