1) How set on you are having a desk in the kitchen? Have you read up on them? In general, nobody ends up using theirs as anything but a junk collector. People more naturally gravitate to the dining or kitchen table when real desk work is needed. It's a table with more room to spread out and work, and usually it just feels more light and airy and pleasant to spend some time in compared to a little cramped desk in a busy, warm kitchen facing a wall, boxed in by a big fridge and a another wall.

2) Generally when you have a big island work space with a prep sink, it is better to have the long side of the island across from the stove. It is also nice (if you have two sinks and the room to do this) to have the stove positioned between the two sinks. This means you have two separate areas on either side of the kitchen where people are able to work between a sink and the stove. It also means that two people needing to use a sinks the same time will be maximally out of each other's way.

Just those facts alone indicate that it would be better if you swapped the locations of your stove and clean-up sink and then moved the prep sink to the opposite side of the island.

3) It is also a general rule that you want your dishwasher (or dishwashers in your case) to not be opening into anything important. Ideally, if you were to open your dishwasher and leave it open, you could cook any entire meal without ever closing it again.

Setting things up that way ensures that a cook could easily do clean-as-you-go cooking, or a cook or outside party could easily grab something from the dishwasher that hadn't been unloaded yet without interrupting cooking, or someone else could be doing dishes while cooking is happening -- all without the dishwasher door(s) getting in the way of cooking.

I presume your plan is to flank the clean-up sink with the two dishwashers. With your clean-up sink dead center in this kitchen, your dishwashers are opening directly into:

a) The path between the fridge and stove.
b) The path between the prep sink and the fridge.
c) Where someone prepping on the island would generally be moving around.
d) The middle of everything happening in the kitchen.

For this reason also, it makes more sense to swap the locations of the stove and clean-up sink. Then if you opened a dishwasher, it would be in the way of no major pathways or traffic or busy areas at all.

4) The island is currently blocking the fridge. You will be walking around the island to get to the fridge. Swap the locations of the fridge and pantry so it is a straight walk from the main work zones to the fridge.

5) If you do everything I just suggested, I would also suggest moving the wall ovens to where the desk is. So that wall would have the fridge closest to the corner, then the pantry, then the wall ovens. This would give you a bit more counter space around the clean-up sink and consolidate all the tall stuff (which is a cleaner look, and the rest of the kitchen feels more open and less cluttered).

So a final layout something like this:

Thank you Jillius for your thoughtful response! We've been living with a kitchen less than half this size, so many points are baffling me. For example the dishwasher, we could leave it open?! We have had to open and close the dw just to unload! Lol!

1)We are a junk collecting family. We are not proud of it, but we are unlikely to change soon! I'm not against moving the desk, but as of yet, this is the best option.

2) We wanted to keep the east wall with no uppers and lots of windows, basically windows across that whole side. We have a lot of windows on the north side of the adjacent rooms (dining and living rooms) and weven want this views to the east from the kitchen. I like the stove/cook top across from the open side of the kitchen, but I like windows more. I'm hesitant to switch the sink and stovetop... but I'll share that with the War Dept. and see what he thinks too.

3) Again, coming from our small kitchen, the dishwashers seem to have plenty of space. We almost never have 2 cooks in the kitchen, though I can see that possibly changing as the kids grow. Can't we just push the island out from that side?

4) How do we avoid dead space with a fridge in the corner?

Lots to think on! Those are just my first impressions! Thanks so much for explaining all of this!

You just got some good advice.

Can you provide a drawing of the adjacent rooms and doorways? This provides a better understanding of traffic flow.

Goodness, Jillius, you should write a book. We should be paying you for your great advice! I was going to say "looks good to me, just move the sink about 1/3 way down the island". Obviously, I still have a lot to learn.

@lethargo
1) Well, in general, you wouldn't be leaving the dishwasher open all the time. That is just a good test of whether or not you have found a good place for it. But dishwashers, of everything that opens, do stay open the longest. You don't leave cupboards or ovens sitting open the way you keep the dishwasher open to load it.

2) If what you want the desk for is to be a junk collector/drop zone, then there is no need for it to be a desk taking up valuable real estate{{gwi:807}}. Designate a junk drawer or two in the kitchen for that stuff to go into instead. My dad use to walk in the house and drop everything from his pockets on the nearest kitchen counter{{gwi:807}} and then later be annoyed that his stuff was moved or got wet. I put a big bin on the top shelf of the cabinet immediately under where he did that, and years later, he is still putting everything in the bin. Nothing on the counter anymore for years, and he certainly is still dropping the same amount of junk as he always did.

I happen to be sitting at my parents' kitchen table right now, so here is a visual!

{{gwi:2136290}}

You can see his junk shelf here, under the counter where he usually dropped everything.

3) There are a lot of options for having a cooktop under a wall of windows.

My favorite is the simplest -- to simply have sliver of wall for the range hood{{gwi:807}} to be mounted to between two big stretches of window. The overall impression is still of a big wall of windows, but the you can have a normal backplash behind the stove, like this:

{{gwi:2136291}}

{{gwi:2136292}}

In addition to being easy to install without losing the effect or feeling of lots of windows, having a hood flanked by windows is a pretty dramatic look.

However, plenty of people also just do a hood in front of the window. Some local code does not allow this, and you have to make sure the window glass is heat safe, so it can be a bit more complicated. But it is done often enough without issue. Like this:

{{gwi:2136293}}

4) This is how you deal with dead space from the fridge in the corner:

Huango also had a similar, good solution.

This post was edited by Jillius on Sun, Jan 18, 15 at 17:36

@funkycamper
Thank you! It would certainly be nice to make money doing this. :)

@lethargo
Just FYI, we don't know where your home is situated or how it is facing, so using north, east, west, etc. is a bit confusing. People often refer to the top wall shown in their plans as north, the right wall as east, etc. But I think you are using actual true cardinal directions, which we don't have enough information to follow. Maybe you could draw a compass on your plan? Also if you could draw in windows. I was assuming your clean-up sink wall was going to be all windows because you drew no uppers there, but I have no idea if the left wall is an exterior wall and could potentially have windows too.

The Mr. prefers windows on both north and east sides, but isn't sure how that could work... We both like no uppers as much as possible.

We could do a secretary desk, but I need a place for home office materials. I don't feel comfortable using the den/classroom/ guest room as guests will be staying in that space and as much as I trust our guests -I wouldn't want to leave our personal documents there. So the desk space could surely be removed.

I don't like the countertop running into the cabinets in the dead corner, not a fan, it feels awkward to me. So no fridge in the corner...But I'm open to moving it, though it would only leave the desk space aND I'm not thinking that's a good option.

And thank you for sharing your parents' junk! Lol! They've got nothing on us! We once had 4 junk drawers! I would greatly prefer to have an organized home office space. The thing there has been that the hubs works from home, this using the home office. But it'snot a home office, it's a work office in our home. So we need space for his work office AND our home office. The mudroom area in the house is a hallway and I'd MUCH prefer an actual ROOM where I could put the home office space, we have that on the list to discuss with the designer. So the desk is a temporary fix...a backup.

Here is the broader layout. Not exactly to scale, and things are in flux still...need to straighten so of these corners out. The kitchen is off the screened porch, adjacent to the dining and living room. We have a very large dining table, that will be turned to extend for gatherings. The stairs are not at all acurate, other than start and finish points. There are stacked stairs from basement to 2nd story.

Thinking on switching the sink/cook top. ..

Appreciate the photo links! We both liked the kitchen with slate? floor and 5 chairs at the island. I don't care for the upper on the far side though. Is that neseccary to ballance the look? Hmmm...

Really appreciate all the thoughts!

Oh that is not their only junk by a long shot! That is the junk that comes out of my dad's pockets that was ending up in the kitchen. He also has piles at his desk, night stand{{gwi:807}}, and dresser. And my mom has the garage, which is stuffed to the gills.

It looks as if your living room is long, so you'd have room for a desk behind the couch. What about that?

{{gwi:2136294}}

{{gwi:2136295}}

That would so much more open and pleasant to work at, it would have drawers to store whatever you want, and then you're not giving up kitchen space for something that doesn't work very well in a kitchen.

The plan I suggested, where the wall ovens end up on the right wall, is one way you can have all windows and no uppers on your north and east walls. The sole interruption on either would be the bit of wall for the range hood{{gwi:807}} on the top wall. I am sure there are other ways.

This post was edited by Jillius on Sun, Jan 18, 15 at 21:21

If we keep the fridge where it is and move the wall ovens to the desk spot, will that interrupt the ice/water/stone/fire that's recommended in another thread? Wouldn't that make Fire/ice/water/stone/fire/water with a prep sink?

We have files of stuff to store, large bulky stuff. A desk would be lovely for work space, but I need cupboards to hide the files and collections of documents, photos, children's art works, etc as well.

Sorry for the terrible editing in my previous post. I was mobile. Big fingers, small letters...

My layout is exactly as Jillius suggested and I will chime in that it is super functional. I wouldn't change a thing after using it for 4 1/2 years. Kids and family members can use the clean up sink or access the fridge without interfering with the work area. Having the island across from the range allows for a large prep area.

Could you store your extra papers for filing elsewhere? I haven't been tied to a desk since the days of the desktop computer. Have laptop, will travel. The files I need for monthly payments, etc., go in a small file tote big enough for pens, tape, small stapler, scissors. I carry that and laptop wherever I feel like working that day. Longer-term storage goes in filing cabinet in a closet

I also have a drawer in the kitchen for pens, notepads, scissors, tape. You could have a drawer next to that for immediate dropping of mail and other items that need to be filed later.

I do think it's good to have a combination communications center and landing zone (for purses, school papers, bookbags, etc.) near the kitchen. Or in the mudroom if you can squeeze more space there.

No need to take up so much precious kitchen space for office storage is there?

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to communication centers/landing spaces on Houzz

Yes, it seems as if a bookcase with some doors/drawers in it in the living room would be better suited to this. With the desk behind the couch, it'd be all you need.

What about the work order in the kitchen? It seems a bit awkward to me to have Ovens, Pantry, Fridge, Prep sink in island, Stove, Cleanup sink. It seems heavily worked on one side, no?

The cooktop at the end of the island doesn't really bother me, and I see quite a few layouts with similar looks.

Here is a link that might be useful: [Stove on short side of island[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/bright-california-traditional-farmhouse-kitchen-san-francisco-phvw-vp~15116967)

Would this work for you?

{{gwi:2136296}}

I added windows on two sides of the cooktop, but I'm not sure how long that wall is. In your first post you say 13', but show 12' in the layout. If the fridge will be 42" and that wall is 12', think the windows would be quite narrow.

You mention having many small aplliances, cooking tools, etc. I think you should make an inventory of all those before deciding on a second DW, keeping a desk or having no or very little uppers.

Thank you Sena! I've been trying to fiddle around with some design programs, but am just getting overly frustrated.. I guess I'm a pen and paper kind of person. I just caught that mistake on the measurement today, sorry about that! Yes, it will be 13'2", roughly, not the 12 that I have down on the paper.

The 3-d model you've created is really helpful! I would prefer the right wall to be more flush, so the pantry isn't jutting out from the corner. Then I suppose wall cabinets in lieu of the desk originally planned.. Perhaps a hutch to display our pottery collection. Is that a sink on the corner of the island? I'm sorry, but I don't care for the angled sink, but that's just me! I think uppers on the left wall flanking the hood would be okay. I prefer one long span of windows to taking the corner with them

I'm thinking we'll lose the desk, look for a built-in fridge, and add tall cabinets next to the fridge. I'm pretty satisfied with everything else from the original plan. Oh no, wait, if we keep the original layout-where on the island would you suggest adding a prep sink, if we add one at all?