Sounds like there are a lot of limitations and red tape with the lot. You need to re-examine your budget to deal with all of that. ''A challenge'' as the builder termed it, is probably an understatement.

It sounds as though the guy you eliminated for being too pricy may be the more realistic and above board builder rather than the lowballers who gave you artificially low beginning prices with low allowances that you'll always exceed. He's telling you the truth. Working with an independent architect is always better than using an uncredentialed ''designer'' tied to a builder. That's the fox guarding the henhouse.

Thanks, hollysprings. I understand your concern, but there is a real difference with the pricey builder. He builds in Park City (ski resort, Sundance Film Festival) and we're building in Lehi (farming community, rodeo). Plus his homes are very custom high-end homes, and we're not aiming that high.

I'm concerned too about using an architect attached to a builder. Of the two we're interviewing, one is a "captive" architect, and the other is independent -- the builder just uses him for their plans and modifications. I see both pros and cons there. On the one hand, the builder and architect are used to working together, but on the other, they have a financial relationship much more important than my relationship with them. We will need to be careful.

Good architects cost money but they don't have to be prohibitively expensive. You've spoken with builders, maybe take a moment and talk to some architects that you have researched that do the kind of job you are looking to do (a way of saying don't choose the architect who does the multimillion dollar faux Tuscan villas).

When we started our process a couple years ago (currently in the roofing stage) the first architect we spoke with told us that our budget was very low for what we wanted. Of course we didn't believe him. But guess what? Turns out he was right on.

I could write for days about the process. But I wont.

Moral of the story - some people will tell you what you want to hear. You need to be informed. We became informed along the way. It has been an expensive process.

Good luck!

i have to ask this question---what are you looking for in a plan that is difficult to find?
i've been interested in homebuilding for 35 years and the main problems i've seen with architects/home builders is a lack of communication between them
we had a walk through after our foundation was poured, our builder went over every window, door opening (inside and out) every outlet and switch directions the cabinet doors and interior and exterior doors opened...... more details than you can ever imagine spent an 8 hour day on this--because he "doesn't trust architects much" and sure enough there were things encountered that were "fixed" in this walk through i don't think most builders go to this much trouble and i don't think most architects are "bad" either......

okokok: We've had three main difficulties in looking for plans. First, we need a wheelchair accessible main floor guest suite. Second, we have large family gatherings frequently, so we need a kitchen that can accommodate up to 6 cooking at the same time, and then we need to seat up to 30 comfortably, with enough room to serve them buffet style. Plus we want main floor storage for all those tables and chairs, so we're not hauling them up from the basement every time. And third, we've got a large list of activities that need to be planned for either in their own spaces or combined together.

Kids computers/tv/video games
Adults computers
Watching movies/tv/sports
Role-playing and board games
Craft room
Music practice & instrument storage area
Library/reading retreat

We just haven't been able to find plans that come very close.

i am thinking you are correct, an architect could be in order

It seems there's a universal dislike of architects among builders in this area. We have interviewed several in depth, talked to several others less formally, and not a single one thinks that working with an architect is a good idea. The common complaints are

They're too expensive.
They don't respond in a timely manner.
They do what they want, not what the client wants.
They don't know how to design a house for a specific budget.
The plans they provide aren't any better than what you could get from just telling a draftsman what you want.

I do like an architect's process better. The builders ask, "Which plan of mine can we alter to do what you want?" The home designers ask, "What rooms do you want, and how big do you want them?" and the architects say, "Tell me about your family and how you live." The question for me is, will the architect's process actually result in a better plan? Will it be better enough to justify the higher price?

Given the amount of problems that people point out here on the forum with floor plans, even architect designed plans, I wonder if the best bet isn't just to post here and keep refining the plan until all the kinks are worked out.