you might want to post this over in the Kitchen forum since those folks have a lot of experience with induction

what y'all are failing to realize is that you cannot use all of the kW CAPACITY of the cooktop and/or the range at the same time.

Induction tops that I'm familiar with , have limiters in them and I'll bet that Samsung does too. It will never draw 12.8 kW continuously even with all of the settings on Hi.

I've never seen a range or cooktop that requires more than a 50A breaker.

The breaker has to be appropriate for the wiring conductor ampacity.

The steady-state current draw should be no more than 80% of the ampacity of the wiring feeding it.

43A draw ranges or induction cooktops want a 50A circuit (usually no. 6 AWG conductors are called for; but if you are bent on saving copper then in particular circumstances - see NFPA 70 - 8 gauge wire might suffice). Don't forget losses on long runs.

For others following this topic, be sure to divide power by 240 Vac as the OP did to get current; at lower voltages these devices draw less current. They don't have constant power power supplies. My Kenmore is rated at 10.6 kW at 240 Vac, but only 9.6 kW at 208 Vac.

The rated power of an induction cooktop for sales purposes may be the sum of the rated powers of all of the hobs on maximum power. Usually, the hobs can't all be on maximum power at once. My Kenmore/Electrolux clone 36-inch induction cooktop can only run 3 of 5 hobs at power boost at the same time, and that level has a limited number of minutes it can run, so it isn't steady state in the sense of ampacity calculations. In my case, the 100% power is specified as 10.6 kW, but the sum of the power boost power ratings is 13.2 kW.

Samson's lack of an on-line copy of their installation manual is beneath contempt for a manufacturer. One wonders just how limited the manual shipped with the unit is.

Although my cooktop only requires a 50A breaker, your combination of induction hobs and resistive heaters might well require more. But be sure of what the steady-state maximum draw is. Your AHJ will want some evidence of what the maximum current draw is so that he can approve the wiring, and hence the breaker size. The unit under discussion may not allow certain combinations of oven and cooktop power, for all we know.

The above notwithstanding, I recommend obtaining all appliances before the reno is ready for them so that all of their little details of installation are certain before finalizing cabinets and trim that has to accommodate them, or in this case running electrical cable.

+1 for using an RPN calculator. (There is a computer accessory called galculator - possibly Linux only - that provides this function for one's PC when one's "pocket" is out of reach.)

kas

See page 22 of the user manual 40 amp preferred 50 amp not recommended....

>what y'all are failing to realize is that you cannot use all of the kW CAPACITY of the cooktop and/or the range at the same time.

Exactly. That is what I was getting at though I didn't explicitly state it. That goes not only for the cooktop, but the oven. The broil element, bake element, and convection element are never going to be on full capacity all the time. Usually, not even 2 out of the 3 will be on full capacity. I'm pretty sure the most power consuming mode would be regular bake, which traditionally energizes the full bake element and 1/3 of the broil element (not sure how the Samsung does it).

Thank you for all the follow-ups. Yes, I know the chances of everything being at full capacity is slim to none, which is why I made the tongue-in-cheek comment in the OP.

Find me an electric range spec sheet, induction or otherwise where the recommended minimum breaker is greater than the total kW rating of the unit.

That is ultimately what I did last night and there is one and only one example I could find - the Dacor Renaissance. Everything else has a nominal wattage above the Samsung and recommended breakers either 40A or 50A. Mine is a 50A breaker on a 6-6-6-6 SER Al cable, so I have come to a similar conclusion as everyone else here - my setup should be more than enough to handle the Samsung

and their installation manual isn't even available online.

Samson's lack of an on-line copy of their installation manual is beneath contempt for a manufacturer. One wonders just how limited the manual shipped with the unit is.

Amen brother. Not only is it not available online, even authorized dealers don't seem to have it. This is plain crazy, they don't even bother to provide a detailed MECHANICAL drawing to help the customer figure out if things will fit in existing cutouts. I have left 1-star ratings of this furnace at multiple websites for that reason alone. And yes, I was explicit that this is the reason I am dinging the range.

One of the three reps that I harassed on this topic actually did volunteer a bit of useful information - the wiring hooking for 4-wire and 3-wire connections. If anyone needs it send me an email and I will provide it. I don't want to post it here for fear that they will pull even that little nugget on "advice of counsel"

See page 22 of the user manual 40 amp preferred 50 amp not recommended.... That must be the Bosch and not the Samsung. p.22 of the Samsung talks about herb tonic tea bottles.

The above notwithstanding, I recommend obtaining all appliances before the reno is ready for them so that all of their little details of installation are certain before finalizing cabinets and trim that has to accommodate them, or in this case running electrical cable.
There-in lies the rub. This is not a whole kitchen reno. We bought the house 2 years ago with some rather ugly appliances in it. The kitchen is overall very nice, with tons of cabinets, lighting, good-quality granite everywhere. We don't need to do anything other than pull out the old Kitchenaid glass top and replace with whatever we buy. And no, I have no intention of letting an inspector within 100ft of the house for this.

And one last bit of very useful information for posterity - I just looked at the syntax of the URL I was sent over chat for the 3-wire installation, and with some tinkering I was able to pull up some other pages. One of them was entitled "Power Supply Cord Kit Rating, where they explicitly recommend "40A or 50A" power cord. I am hooking this up to a 3-wire 50A circuit so this is what I have ordered.

Here is a link that might be useful: Power cord rating

This post was edited by GroovyGeek on Sun, Dec 14, 14 at 16:57

After all the hassle you're getting from Samsung and lack of information, are you sure you really want to buy this product? Do you think you can expect decent service on the product after purchase? I'd personally be cautious. Are there any reviews on the reliability of the product? That would be something to research thoroughly.

My wife likes the looks and functionality far better than any other induction furnace. I would prefer gas,even if I have to pay $1k or so to run a gasline a few extra feet, but alas she hates gas. And frankly I prefer coils over glass flat top, but again She Who We Must All Obey says no. Practically every other induction range on the market is with touch controls, and I tend to agree with her these suck badly. As for reliability, according to CR the reliability of Samsung ranges on average far exceeds that of the fire-breathing dragons that many here prefer. When it comes to service my baseline assumption is that for any mid-market brand it will basically suck, so this is not even entering into consideration.

If you're willing to give up the slide in look, Frigidaire/Kenmore (same thing) have induction ranges with knobs for under $2000. I am very happy with my Electrolux slide in induction (higher end sibling to Frigidaire/Kenmore) but it does have touch controls. I thought I would hate the them too, but it was a deal I could not pass up and now that I'm used to them, they're great. Very responsive, at least on my particular model.

Interesting. I pulled up a copy of the manual from the Home Depot website but when I look at the small print on the bottom of the manual they have linked the product ...70WS to the manual for the 50WS....sorry.

It looks like Samsung accidentally left all of the installation instructions out of the manual for the… 70WS...I have not had good luck trying to get big companies to correct these types of errors. If you really want to go ahead with Samsung I think you will need to go to a smaller distributor willing to apply pressure to Samsung...

Many modern cooking appliances do not use cords and plugs, my Kenmore directions actually prohibit their use. The cooktop provides a metallic flex whip with high temperature conductors inside. This is also true of my Wolf double oven assembly.

You seem to have aluminum wiring. 6 AWG Al is roughly equivalent to 8 AWG copper in ampacity (working from memory here), so you are marginal in my view, but if the run is short it might be ok.

However, Al conductors have to be connected to devices approved for aluminum, and the aluminum has to have its oxide coating scraped and coated with a goo sold for that purpose. For interconnecting the oven's wiring with the aluminum house wiring, some type of approved device will be needed that is rated for the high temperature range conductors. As I don't use Al wire in my house, other than for a particular very short run of SE, I haven't paid attention to the Al acceptability of many interconnects. There are clamping devices for Al/Cu that look like bolt and nut assemblies that could be used and taped up. Without enough research you may have to use the services of an electrician for the hookup, as messing up in this area could be a fire hazard.

kas

kaseki, thank you for the detailed reply. Yes, I too was surprised to see SER wiring but this is in the kitchen and runs through the crawlspace, so I think they had to use SER-rated cable when they did the last major remodel circa 2002 on account of the fact that the crawlspace is fully exposed. 6AWG actually is rated for 50A up to and the run is only 20ft - the breaker box is actually in the kitchen. Everything but the dyer and range lines are Cu, the latter two are Al. Not sure why they did it like that, the kitchen was stripped to the studs when they did the reno way back so they could have ran any wire they wanted with little difference in effort.

Whatever, it is what it is, I am not about the change that. The current range is KitchenAid Superba that is rated for 43A draw, and in two years we have never had the breaker trip so I am pretty sure it is OK.

The Samsung, Electrolux, GE, and Bosch induction ranges all require a customer provided 3-wire or 4-wire cable that plugs into a standard outlet. The Al wire connects to the outlet and that is already pre-existing wiring that was inspected at the time it was built, though 10+ years later may not be fully up to current code. I have ordered a brand new 50A-3wire appliance wire for the new range. I was also considering pulling out the existing cord and installing it in the new range, but it is kind of short and it will be a PITA to move the new range in place with it.

The Al current connections are goo-capped, I know since i had to pull them to measure the strand diameter to figure out the gauge. I don't anticipate having to do any changes to the wiring, and at this point I have all info I need to hook up the new range when it shows up a month or so from now.

Now I just have to figure out how to route a hood exaust to the outside. I love living in a 1930's vintage house, built like a tank, but limits some of the modern niceties you can get. The prior owners put in recessed lighting in the ceiling, so there is AT LEAST a 6" gap there that I think can be used to route the hood exhaust. The wall separating the kitchen from the dining room is only like 5" thick so I don't think I can run down into the crawl space, and the middle of my daughter's bedroom is right above the range so I can't route up to the roof either. Oh well, another day, another battle.

A lot of posts here but I just wanted to state that you can't just add up all the wattages of all the elements and say that's the total wattage DRAW of the product.

Most Ranges are designed to never have the Broil, Bake and Convection elements on at the same time. They cycle the elements so that only one is on at a time to keep down the power draw.

Most Induction tops use power sharing where when you use a boost function it takes away power from the other element on the same relay board.

Generally when a manufacturer / UL-CSA rates an appliance to be on a 40 amp circuit that means the highest power draw at any one time will be less than the 40 amp rating.

Hello,

Maybe it was my lucky day, but I chatted with Samsung online support (details below) and was told that a breaker rated at 40 amps is required for this unit.

At 240 VAC running under 50 feet, 6 gauge copper wire is required, but you should consult your electrician.

Cheers,

Robert

Communication with Samsung:

info: Thank you for choosing Samsung. A representative will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with 'Martin'. There will be a brief survey at the end of our chat to share feedback on my performance today.
info: Your Issue ID for this chat is LTK1125602796116X
Robert: Hello Martin. Just ordered a NE58H9970WS and my electrician is wondering about the power requirements in the selection of a circuit breaker for this model.
Martin: Hi, thank you for contacting Samsung Canada support. How may I assist you today?
Martin: I will provide you the details.
Robert: Thanks
Martin: Samsung Electric, Induction, and Induction Hybrid Ranges require a dedicated 240-Volt, 60-Hz, 40-amp, AC, fused electrical circuit to operate properly. Samsung Gas Ranges require a dedicated 120-Volt, 60-Hz, 20-amp, AC, fused electrical circuit to operate properly.
Martin:
Robert: I don't think that makes sense. My current ranges requires 30 amps and this is an induction range. Can you please verify if your answer applies to the NE58H9970S?
Martin: I have checked the details and I see that your unit requires a dedicated 240-Volt, 60-Hz, 40-amp, AC, fused electrical circuit to operate properly.
Martin: Do you have any other question for me?
Robert: Ok.. I thought it should be 50 amps, but thanks for the response. That will be all. Bye
Martin: Thank you for chatting with Samsung Canada support. If you have a minute, please click on the blue “X close” button to receive the transcript of your chat and fill out a brief survey to help us serve you better.

info: Thank you for chatting with us. Please click the "Close" button on the top right of the chat window to tell us how we did today.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Samsung-Chef-Collection-30-in-5-8-cu-ft-Slide-In-Flex-Duo-Electric-Induction-Range-with-Convection-Oven-in-Stainless-Steel-NE58H9970WS/205469130

According to the homedepot product page for the samsung, it says 240 volts, 40 amps

I run the Bosch induction range on a 40A circuit. The manual said 40A minimum, 50A preferred. It all seems to work find to me.

I did install this with on the existing 40A breaker, no probs, but we have not really done any significant cooking to date.

From the induction cooktop perspective, pretty much all of them run with power sharing. That is, two hobs run from a single controller that controls the total power of the two hobs. The large single hobs usually have one controller. Total power will be somewhere around 3600 watts, depending on vendor, model and so on. So if you have two hobs rated at 1800 watts on high, then both can run on high at the same time. But boost one to 2700 watts and the other will drop to 900 watts, the total power still being 3600 watts. Total power might be advertised using the total boosted power but that will never happen.

Ovens are somewhat the same in that there are two elements at about 3000 watts each but only one can be active at a time. The exception might be self-cleaning, in which case I'll wager the cooktop is 'restricted' during this time.

If the manufacturer states use a 40A breaker, then ultimately, per the NEC, you are required to use MAX, a 40 A breaker.

I‘m digging up this old thread for a couple reasons… My Bosch HIIP054U has worked just fine for years since it was first installed, until I had a major renovation from massive roof damage and interior flooding. After the electrician rewired my panel, my oven doesn't work. Or, I should say, it works for a few minutes and then trips the breaker. When I look at the panel, I see they grabbed what had been a dedicated spot for an old HVAC cooling unit (that was defunct from earlier HVAC rework) and used it for my range. But now my range doesn‘t stay on! All I tried was warming up some food ; Bake @275* F. Twice it began, and twice it kicked off at the panel after a few minutes.

Please let me know what your panels power these with? We upgraded the power to 220 volt service when we first installed this range and a new panel. I don’t recall where it was on the panel before this renovation (checking pictures from years back), but now it’s powered by 2 - 50 amps tied together. Shouldn’t this be enough? Or do I need to call my own electrician to get this sorted out?

As the long thread above suggests, 50A should be sufficient. You might consider that there is some damage to the oven circuitry or corrosion in an element causing a short. If you aren't qualified to be your own electrician, then please call one.