Happens. Take a loss. Ideally you should have taken insurance.

Last summer our window cleaners left all window screens leaning against one garage door while they cleaned the windows. Not knowing, I opened the garage door and the lot fell on and scraped/scratched the bumper of my almost new car. My son was so mad at them, called the owner to say they were not going to get paid. I felt so bad the way my son verbally tore these guys apart, I did not have the heart to deny their payment. It cost a small fortune to repair and repaint the bumper at the dealership; I did not feel bad about it. Despite having abundant insurance coverage for any damage to anything by anyone, I did not bother to make a claim.

A picture if the crack. It's dulled down

Another angle. It looks powdery and dull

Here's a picture if the sticker stain on the left side of the picture

The broken range. So the thing is that it's hard to pay 2500 to the company that messed up my 5000 dollar slab in 2 big prominent spots. Then they broke my brand new range. Also, if I were rich, it may easier to swallow, But I'm not. A 2500 dollar bill is a lot to us. We saved 5 years to build or renovate. So paying them in full is just not something I'm comfortable with. Maybe half? Any other opinions?

Most reputable companies, doing business of any sort or type in any state, should have liability insurance to cover mishaps or loss caused at a client site. If you feel strongly enough and seems as if you do, have a heart to heart chat with the owner to discuss the situatiion; let him come back with an offer to compromise; he may have to make an insurance claim.

The fabricator/installer should have carried the insurance and it is quite possible that they did.

Rather than insert yourself into a problem solving exercise and/or a sticky price negotiation tell the responsible contractor that a crack is not acceptable and let him make a proposal that meets the terms of the contract. I doubt the contract said repaired cracks were acceptable.

Taking control of a construction problem can often cause you to lose control of the solution. Never make the first offer in a negotiation or usurp the role of the contractor.

The range repair should not be part of this negotiation.

If you decide to keep the counter I would ask them to hone the entire surface. To me the leather finish is inappropriate on a figured/veined stone. If you replace it granite would be a more stable and serviceable material for a kitchen counter top.

I love the "nature of the material" excuse. I want to put it on a wall plaque.

The "nature of the material" is quite convenient. There were no contracts. Nothing was signed by either party.

The leather finish is beautiful on this quartzite is beautiful. It looks like honed but when you touch it it's not smooth like honed. There's "hills" and subtle lumps. I guess that's the best way to describe it. It would be just as pretty honed, however, I guess.

I can be happy with the crack and the sticker stain and the broken range - that my husband will fix as soon as the new door comes in, of course, as long as I don't pay 2500 for it. If I pay him 2500 then I want a new slab and him to pay for the new door.

I'll call him and see how it goes. Wish me luck.

Tomm I have to battle another countertop company that was contracted out by lowes to install solid white Formica countertops in the kid bath and master bath. they cut the wrong sink holes for the master bath. So I bought sinks to fit their holes, but Now the faucets don't fit behind the sinks because they cut the sink holes too far back. the plumber already tried installing the faucets, so they can't be returned. I thought the countertop people could reimburse me for new faucets that fit, but the plumber says there's no room for any 8" widespread faucet to fit and when you try to wash your face you hit your head on the faucet since the sink is pushed so so far back. Fun times these renovations! NEVER. DOING. IT. AGAIN. I will live and die in this house!

The slab: Not okay. This crack is in a prominant spot, and it's very noticeable. AND they tried to sneak it by you. Not okay on multiple levels. I'd expect them to fix this. The "nature of the material" excuse doesn't fly -- UNLESS it had been brought up to you as a possibility in the "what can we do for you?" discussion.

Yes, in retrospect, insurance on the slab WOULD have been a good idea. It's a pricey item. I am unfamiliar with this type of insurance and would like to hear other people's experiences. I need to be informed on this topic.

Range door: This isn't nearly as serious a problem. Range doors are super-easy to install. Install is really too strong a word. You just lift them kind of up and back, and they lift right off. They broke the door, so they should pay the $350, but the rest of your range is still in pristine condition. This is an easy fix.

You were offered insurance for a very delicate to transport and fabricate slab because, it IS in the nature of the slab to have fissues that turn into cracks. Sorry Renovator, but there are a lot of stones being brought to market now that are very very delicate and would never have been under consideration to be used as counters even 5 years ago. For most fabricators, instead of charging double for their labor to take into account the possibility of yours being one that does turn into a crack, many have turned to "slab insurance". Like most insurance, most will never need it. In your case, you did. And you didn't buy it. So, slab replacement would be on you if you wanted it replaced.

But, you just want better workmanship on the crack. That, you are certainly entitled too. However, leathered anything is difficult to work with because of the texture. A fabricator will need the diamond brushes that produce the leathered finish. Not that many have them. It's an expensive tool. And that's why when most people purchase leathered slabs that are factory leathered, they need to find out if their fabricator has the correct tools to produce that finish on their edging as well as the factory surface. Most just do a honed finish on the edging, as it will be matte enough to match up with the leathered top. But, if you chose your fabricator correctly, by asking those questions. they should have the tools to fix the seam.

So, let them fix the seam. And fix the stove. And then pay them what you owe them. You will have received the full value of what they promised to do for you. However, do not pay them until they have fulfulled their part of the contract.

There are two separate issues - The countertop is one the range is another.

Countertop - I would insist that they refinish the surface so that the crack and stain disappear. Then I would pay them the full remaining balance. If they are unable to do this, I would pay them nothing and find someone else to fix it. To me, the sticker stain is worse than the crack - which has nothing to do with the "nature of the material."

Range - I would charge the company for the cost of the door and the labor to install. Doesn't matter if DH is doing the install - you are paying for installation one way or another. DH's time and sweat is worth something.

But if a countertop shop that sells the whole package (slab, fabrication, installation) tells me that the risk of damage during fabrication and installation is on me, my reaction would be one of disbelief.

My thoughts exactly. I've never heard of such a thing. Typically, ownership transfers (FOB) at either shipping point or delivery point. It makes absolutely no sense that I own the thing when it arrives in their shop, and have to replace it if they drop it while fabricating it. No sense at all.

No way would I accept that countertop. They would have to replace it, their loss, not mine. I pay for perfect merchandise.

you paid 5k for the slab and agreed to 2500 fabrication fee. offered slab insurance. declined the insurance. you gambled that the slab wouldn't break. you lost that gamble. you need to own the fact that you gambled and lost.

the way i see it, you owe the fabricator the 2500 plus whatever it costs to refinish the stone to an acceptable finish.

you say that 2500 is a lot to you. yes, but it was money you had already committed to spend. it is not a surprise added expense.

and, yes, accepting the cost of a new range and fixing the old one for 350 is slimy. sorry, but you asked. you woudn't expect to get a whole new car if the car wash attendant accidentally broke the windshield of your brand new car, would you?

the fabricator owes you a new glass or new door for the oven.

the sticker stain--if the stone arrived at the fabricator's with the offending sticker, then your beef is with the stone supplier, not the fabricator. assuming these are separate entities.

Regardless of slab insurance (I never heard of? - just learned something new), I would be very upset if anybody tried to get away with a damage like that without telling me.
They never told you...that makes me suspect they were trying to get away from something they knew they are responsible for.

Sorry, but after spending $7500, I would not accept their excuses. Accidents happen, but cover-up is unacceptable. Are they thinking that you are blind, or will never notice???
I don't know how it could be fixed, but it would have to look much better than it shows in photos.

And have them pay for damaged door and installation.
No payment for anything until it is done to your satisfaction - you sound 'worn out' & ready to accept anything...remember, you'll live with that slab.

I have a family member in the business of providing slabs of granite, marble, quartzite, soapstone, etc.
They don't ask clients to pay for insurance.
If a slab breaks, they invite the client to come in and select another one.
Also, my family member told me they inspect the stones carefully and cull anything that looks very likely to be too fragile.

We bought all our slabs from them.
They shipped them to the fabricator, hours away from them but near me.
The fabricator delivered them to me and fabricated and installed them.
It never occurred to me that it could be "on me" if They broke some of my stone, nor would I have dealt with a company that tried that tactic.

I do think the condition of your countertop is Unacceptable.
So sorry about these issues.
They should make it right.

Right wrong or indifferent, hind sight is 20/20. They offered you slab insurance that you refused, so that meant you accepted the responsibility for the slabs. The time to argue that was then not after the fact, when the slab has broken. No contract nothing in writing but you have out it on the internet that the slab insurance was offered and you refused so that is out there for good now. So it is in your best interest at this point to come to a reasonable solution with the fabricator/installer and technically I agree with ci_lantro, you owe him the payment for the product.

Disagree.
THEY should carry insurance for materials. That you do not have insurance does NOT necessarily mean you accepted responsibility (there were three fabricators with three different opinions, that should tell you that there is NOT a universal standard) and certainly not for the unrelated damage to the stove.
The damage is unacceptable.
There are many attorneys these days who will give you a free 30 minute consult to present your problem, the attorney will then recommend solutions and costs. There is no obligation unless you choose to hire the attorney.
Why not go for a consult?

You refused slab insurance but that doesn't mean that you agreed to a terrible repair. They agreed to professionally install your counters with a leather finish and no sticker stain. That has not been done.

Don't muddy the waters by robbing Peter to pay Paul. Have them fix the slab repair and have them either fix the oven door or reimburse you for the oven door repair. Don't lump the two together.

Slab insurance is new to the business.

With the increasing demand for exotic stones, there is a lot of pressure to bring new stones to the market. The process of resining the slabs and applying a mesh backing at the quarry has helped many of them survive the transport that they previously would not have done. That has put even more pressure on other stone suppliers to keep up with the Jonses.

So, you have a lot of stones tha ''just barely'' survive that transport. They have fissures and some can shale with the touch of a hand. They produce gorgeous exotic results as counters, but they have a much higher chance of being damaged during the fabrication process. When the risk goes from 3% for an actual real granite to 30% for a schist full of mica getting sold as ''granite'', something had to give.

That used to mean that a fabricator had to charge $70-$100 for fabricating these prima donnas. They had to account for the fact that they might have to buy a whole new slab for the job. And around 30% of the time, they did.

Now there is slab insurance that will pay the cost of the broken slab. And they can charge $30-$50 a square to fabricate, with the risk accounted for by the insurance purchase. If the customer buys the insurance. If it were my shop, the customer would either be required to purchase the insurance, or they could pay the old double labor rate. The risk has to be accounted for somehow.

The OP took a chance. It wasn't quite driving without car insurance and then having an accident, but it did transfer the risk of slab replacement to her in order to save a little money. She lost the bet.

An expert stone repairer can make the seam look better. Not perfect. If you want perfection, manmade materials should have been purchased, not natural stone. And of course, the company can buy new oven glass and install it. No need to buy a door, or even pay for replacement labor.

You will get what you paid for, on the budget that you agreed was acceptable, and the damage will be repaired. In turn, you owe them the full amount that you agreed to pay them. If that amount pinches your pocketbook, that was an existing problem that shoud have been resolved on the front end while counter shopping.

Again, disagree. Talk to an attorney. I do not think a company can escape liability merely by offering insurance. The company itself was free to purchase insurance and it did not.
The damage is unacceptable.

I agree this is two separate issues. The fabricator has liability insurance to repair the oven. They should file a claim. Not knowing the stone business, I believe they would also have insurance to cover raw materials (slabs). My husband and I own a business with $1 million in liability insurance. If we purchase items for a job, they are covered if damaged.

Best of luck.

As far as the range goes, they should cover the $350 for the new door.

As to the slab, if they dropped it and it cracked, I'd think they'd be on the hook to replace it since their actions caused the crack. But if it just cracked while removing it due to the "nature of the material", I don't think they're responsible for it.

It's obvious that the OP would not be willing to pay 12K for the fabrication of the 5K slab. That is what it would take for a fabricator to assume the responsibility for fabricating basically eggshells. Most traditional fabricators who have not moved to using slab insurance have a sliding scale for their labor costs as relates to the stone costs. That lets them account for the potential breakage.

For a group A stone where the slab costs maybe $450, the labor charge starts at around $30 a square, or roughly triple the cost of the stone. And it goes up from there. For a $20 a square stone, or a $900 slab, the labor goes to $40 a square. And so on.

For the exotics like the OP chose, labor can be quite pricy. If you as a customer want to play on that playground, you have to be willing to pay the admission cost. $7500 + $500 for insurance vs $17,000. Which would you choose?

It did not crack during delivery from the stone yard to the fabricator. It was not cracked on their lot while it sat there for quite some time. I went to match paint, tile, etc. MANY times. It was fine- other than the sticker that caused the stain.

It is NOT marble or onyx - the delicate materials. It is quartzITE which is harder than all of the stones, thus what the stone people are highly recommending for kitchens to those who want the look of marble but the durability of granite. SO that's what I got. I felt confident in it's durability and it's gorgeous, so I paid a good bit more per square foot for that beauty and durability.

He said the insurance covered dropping the slab on the crane when it arrived at his lot from the distributors. He said nothing about it cracking DURING fabrication. I interpreted the insurance as neither the distributor wanting to accept responsibility for transportation nor the fabricator - so they ask the customer to cover that gamble. That is what I thought I was declining. But the more I think about it, granite companies should have insurance for dealing with delicate materials and subcontractors that break them. Why should the customer Pay for their breaking of a slab!? If I ordered a 5000 dollar appliance and it arrived damaged, the appliance company replaces it. I'm not asked to pay extra insurance for transportation on a refrigerator! The warranty begins once the perfect condition refrigerator is on your property. NOTHING in life works this way. Something is wrecked. The person at fault has THEIR insurance pay for it. They broke it.

He has yet to tell me exactly what happened, but during the day of installation I was at the house painting the laundry room and something secretive seemed to be going on in a different language amongst the subs. I think that it happened during fabrication. When offered the insurance, breaking during fabrication wasn't mentioned, and no I didn't think about that. And I would have thought that absurd. I thought he was referring to the changing of hands. I had never heard of such insurance so I knew nothing about it. I was already paying a lot of money for a slab that they told me was the hardest stone of all the stones. I was also agreeing to paying him a good bit more per square foot for its hardness and how that hardness affects his tools. So the distributor and the fabricator are telling me how HARD the slab is and charging me more for that hardness, so paying insurance for fragility didn't make sense. He presented the insurance as if it was for dropping it from the crane when moving from the delivery truck.

Now if my 2 year old beat the slab with a hammer and broke it, would I expect the fabricator to pay for that? No. So how is this any different?

My point about the range is that immediately when he informed me of the broken glass he offered to buy an entirely new range. I didn't ask for that. Those were the first words out of his mouth. So if he's willing to spend 2500 on my range then why won't he be comfortable forgoing the 2500 bill while I handle the range? That was my thinking because there's no way I'm trusting them to repair the crack. If I get the crack repaired, I will find another company to do it later on. This company does not have the leather finish tools. The slab came from Brazil with a leather finish - it was not fiished by the distributor or the fabricator.

To the poster who said I seem worn down--- I AM I AM!!! Before this renovation we purchased a lot to build on. Had blue prints drawn up and ended up selling the lot to the builder that said he could build 2600sf in our budget then later says he couldn't after we spent 10,000 on the blue prints. It's all been very stressful! A lot of lessons learned but nevertheless, very stressful doing all this with 4 young kids. Not asking for sympathy. Just saying that I am worn down. However, I will fight this last fight. I'm not paying that bill. If he wants to replace the slab then I will pay him in full. But otherwise, the more I think about it in terms of other situations - appliances, furniture, windows, doors....The customer isn't left with a damaged item!

Wish me luck. I'm calling him now to discuss our options. Hopefully we can come up with a solution that we are both comfortable with.

Bmh - Hope y'all can work something out. Hate it for ya.

The installer gets the chance to make it right. If he's smart, he'll hire a sub to clean up the repaired area, if he doesn't have the expertise and tooling to do so.

You get the counter fixed, he gets paid.

For the range, he buys a door and puts it on.

That makes you whole.

I think you are far too easy going and should ask for things that were broken to be replaced.

They should replace the countertop entirely, and order and install a new oven glass. You should not have to do anything.

This post was edited by cearbhaill on Sat, Jan 17, 15 at 12:41