Part shade and poorly drained soil - Got a recommendation?

9 years ago

This may be a pipe dream, but we'd love to put a small ornamental tree near our brand new back deck. Our vision would be a red bud or Japanese maple, but those probably aren't good candidates. It's part shade--just a few hours of afternoon sun--and pretty poorly draining soil. Soil is stubbornly neutral (7.0-7.1). It would also be about 15-20' from a curly willow tree, if that matters. We're in zone 5.

Thanks!

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Comments (6)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
9 years ago
z5 is about half the Us.... could you be more specific???

poor drainage can be taken care of.. by proper planting.. see link.. the parts about dealing with clay soil ..

i think JMs are shade tolerant .. but i am not sure how much so ... what is just as important as how much direct sun.. is how bright it is otherwise ...

but lack of sun might impact a lot of the flowering trees ... but again ... how bright is it otherwise ...

any chance at some pix from late last season ... presuming the deck wasnt built this winter????

also ... what are the large trees... making all that shade?????

i dont care about the willow 20 plus feet away ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link
NHBabs z4b-5a NH
9 years ago
I am not sure why you think a redbud would be a problem. Based on my experience with redbuds from when I lived in central OH, they grow wild in the woods in clay soil, and most of OH seems to be slightly alkaline. I am able to grow redbud in my very acid sandy soil here in bright shade after about 11 am (and I know of several others in various places around the state), so I think they must be fairly flexible in their requirements. If you are worried about drainage, you could berm the soil slightly so you can plant a bit higher and surface water drains away, but I don't really think there would be an issue. Perhaps others will weigh in with different experiences.
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You need advice from people who know Washington soils. If you're in Western Washington, you do not have an excess of minerals, particularly not of sodium, causing your drainage problems. Eastern Washington, maybe. If you're in the Puget Sound area (why oh why do you not specify where you are on your member page????) you probably have native soil that is mostly gravel and sand. When you squeeze a handful, does it squish into a sticky ball that does not crumble? if not it's not a 'heavy' or clayey soil. Here's what I think may be going on (IF you're in the Puget Sound area! the rest of Western WA has unglaciated soils that are not nearly as gravelly and sandy as ours). You have 'topsoil' that may be of decent texture, but a relatively thin layer plunked down on top of gravelly sandy glacial till. Any time you have a drastic change of soil texture you block water drainage. Does not matter if the lower soil is better or worse draining. The change is what blocks the water movement. Clay soils are rare around here. I've seen pockets of clay, and outwash soils that have some clay in them and seem clayey in comparison with the sandy soils that are more typical, but I would not expect you have an actual clay soil in your topsoil. So I think your topsoil is probably decent soil but needs that boundary layer underneath it broken up. We do get hardpans here, usually glacial in origin, not chemical as in other areas. You won't be able to break up the glacial hardpan - how could you undo what the weight of a glacier has done??? forget it! Shallow soils on bedrock too. What I would do is lay on some compost, get the biggest tiller you can handle, and till down until you get past the topsoil and into the native soil to break up that boundary. Do not add any chemicals or fertilizer or sand or manure. Just compost. Unless of course it's on a hardpan or bedrock, then you'll need to raise it up more.
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pbl_ge
Original Author
9 years ago
z5 is about half the Us.... could you be more specific??? poor drainage can be taken care of.. by proper planting.. see link.. the parts about dealing with clay soil ..

The problem isn't clay, but bedrock. We're in Western NY, which was completely flattened during the last ice age. The backyard is the lowest point on the block, and even though we have a French drain it still floods for a few hours in heavy rain.

i think JMs are shade tolerant .. but i am not sure how much so ... what is just as important as how much direct sun.. is how bright it is otherwise ...

also ... what are the large trees... making all that shade????? i dont care about the willow 20 plus feet away ...

The problem is that it will vary greatly depending on the month, as that curly willow is to the south. Peak summer will be a lot more sun than the shoulder seasons.

any chance at some pix from late last season ... presuming the deck wasnt built this winter????
Alas, it was finished just a few days before the first snow came and we didn't get a good pic! Now it's buried.
pbl_ge
Original Author
9 years ago
If a redbud would be a good choice, we'll probably go with that. I thought they needed more sun. We LOVE redbuds!!!
pbl_ge
Original Author
9 years ago
Oh, andplusalso we did build up the bed in which this tree will be planted, but only by about 18".
gardener365
9 years ago
Betula nigra will do well too. 'Little King' is an excellent, small tree, for that area.

Dax

Part shade and poorly drained soil - Got a recommendation?

Comments (6)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

NHBabs z4b-5a NH

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Part shade and poorly drained soil - Got a recommendation?

Comments (6)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

NHBabs z4b-5a NH

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