I haven't grown GC and can't comment about it particularly, but in my hot and dry garden many, if not most of my roses, really appreciate afternoon shade. I wonder if that wouldn't also help GC to retain its color better since hot sun does tend to fade most yellows to a lighter color.

Ingrid

As Ingrid suggested, shade after 2:00, during the hottest part of the day, might be helpful. I've seen photos of Jeri's Golden Celebration in a hot climate, and the plant is spectacular. Maybe she'll reply with the location of hers. Mine have grown in full all day sun in Portland, Oregon, but this is a cool climate, except for the few weeks of high 90s to 100s. -Carol

Definitely, in Florida, I would give it some afternoon shade. My climate isn't cool, but it's dry, so my GC takes the all day heat pretty well--once it was established. You may have some drooping and flopping at first no matter where GC is planted. It's a big rose in most hot places. Lots of water helps. Diane

I am really in a rather cool, coastal climate -- tho we do have some hot periods.

Our row of G.C. are on the west side of our house, so they get little or no afternoon sun. It should be noted that G.C. can blackspot, where blackspot conditions are a problem.

Also, please note that is is a very large plant -- sometimes used as a low climber. We grow several in a row, as a privacy hedge outside our bedroom window, and the plants fulfill their function admirably.

This is a row of 4-5 plants -- but do note the size.

Jeri
Coastal Ventura Co., SoCal

Thank you everyone! Jeri wow!!
Diane isn't it such a beautiful rose?. Yellow roses are my favorite. I'm planting my Golden next to an Abraham Darby I have on my house.. shade about 2:30pm on. I have read 2-3 feet between should be ok. I wish I could plant them closer so I could fit in one more rose but I know it can get pretty large.

My thanks to you all!

Just FYI, wth 2 to 3 feet on center spacing, the two roses will eventually grow together and appear the be one continuous planting. Years ago, when I was unfamiliar with Austins, I followed the company's recommendations, and after a short time, I needed to space the plants farther apart. Gertrude and Othello were unkind to me during the transplanting. Ouch! I do like the look of roses intertwined (see Jackie's garden for a great example) and if this is the desired effect, your roses should achieve it fabulously. I think you're wise not to plant too closely. I might plant 3 feet apart but not any closer. These shrubs can be big guys. If you have high blackspot or rust pressure in your area, Abe Darby and Golden can both carry these diseases. I've found that wider spacing can reduce the severity of infections. I love your rose choices, by the way. These two are still on my all time fav Austin list. Jeri and Diane, those sure are gorgeous roses! Do post photos, please, Daisy! -Carol

No. In a warm climate, 2-3 ft. will NOT NOT NOT be sufficient.

When we planted ours, we DID site them 3 ft. apart, because we were planting a hedge. But Portland is correct. At that distance, the roses will grow together. Moreover, the more-vigorous will eventually bury the less-vigorous. I have had that happen, to my sorrow.

From personal experience . . .

I recommend strongly that you divide in half the number of roses you think that you can put in the projected bed.

The fact that they have managed in pots has no bearing on what will happen when they are in the ground.

I REALLY WISH there had been someone around to give me this advice, 20 years ago.

Here's another example, though these are Tea Roses -- not Austins. These Teas were planted on 4-ft. centers. I thought in 1994 that would be spacious. I was wrong. It's lovely, but it would be a better garden if these Teas were planted on 5-ft centers.

Live and learn.

Jeri
Coastal Ventura Co., SoCal

Jeri, is that last picture YOUR garden??? I've seen and admired this picture before but assumed it was a beautiful public rose garden. Wow!

What is the pink rose on the left, please? I should probably say roses since I imagine there must be several in a row. It's such a gorgeous scene, with the path flanked by irises and roses which leads to the rose structure, with everything backed by huge, majestic trees. Truly a dream garden scene.

Ingrid

I have two Golden Celebrations growing happily in mostly shade. They bloom okay and are getting taller

I have one in a sunny western reflected heat area and it is about 2 feet tall after several years

If you are thinking of Bishops Castle I would put it in the back and give it 6 feet.....I wish had lol

No, Ingrid. It's not my garden -- It is the small Heritage Rose Garden at the Stagecoach Inn, in Newbury Park, CA. It's the only true Heritage Rose Garden in Ventura County.

But I designed it, and helped to plant it, and nursed it through its earliest days, so I feel rather proprietary about it.

The "pink" rose on the right is 'Niles Cochet.' This plant is sited in what turned out to be a sort of bog. As a result, it is a gargantua, even among Tea Roses, and it is never out of bloom. Never.

I should say that all of the Teas in this garden were donated by the Antique Rose Emporium, and I can never sufficiently thank Mike Shoup for them.

You can see it better in this photo -- taken in mid-January on Pruning Demonstration Day, a few years ago.

Jeri

My GC arches out to over 6' wide and tall. It is an own-root plant. The Acer in the photo on the left is a little over 6' tall:
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That is one plant.

Yup. That's GC. :-)

That's a lovely colour combination, Hoov - but I fear your little Acer is about to get eaten! Will it grow any taller and find it's way out, do you think?

Jeri, would you mind telling us the name of the pink rose on the left of your two photos? I believe that was the one Ingrid was interested in. ;ì)

Niles is an interesting rose - rather unusual. I've been inspecting it in the various pix you've been posting recently, and elsewhere. I like the way the lighter, almost white, colour is on the outside, with the pinkish-red outer petals curling out over them - I can't quite put it into words...but it kind of looks inside-out...! Also I believe I saw bright red canes and prickles (?) that matched the buds and the red part of the blooms - a very attractive combination. As so often with the 'proper' old roses, I find it's these delightful harmonies and variations that add so much to the charm of the whole.

I'm not surprised you feel proprietorial towards that lovely garden you created. If it was my handiwork, I'd be back there gazing at it admiringly - and rather anxiously fussing over - it every other day!

Comtesse :ì)

Even in this central Virginia Upper South garden, Golden Celebration reaches 8'+ tall and would arch over to cover a circle 15' or more if not confined within a copper pipe obelisk. That structure is 2' square with staggered cross bars & 4 corner verticals that curve near the top to join together in a wooden ball finial, rising more than 9' from ground level. After 8 years, my grafted rose has outgrown it & I'll be adding another 2 feet of vertical pipe to accomodate it. GC is planted in the center of the obelisk, which was assembled around it when it began shooting long arching canes in its second year. It grows in the center of a long & deep front porch bed, and would have swamped neighboring plants if not coralled in some manner. Since it's not tied to the support & grows naturally in an arching vase shape, canes & laterals spill over the crossbars giving a total diameter of 4' starting 3' from the ground & widening as it keeps going up. The nearest rose in front of it is a 3x3' round floribunda planted 3' out from the obelisk, so around 5' center to center of each bush. A taller hybrid tea is 5' behind the obelisk. Two more shortish & willowly climbers at either side by 6' lean slightly on the same obelisk. This arrangement allows me room to walk within the bed to tend the roses & other perennials & so far (knock on wood) they've all done well. If this sounds odd, it's more or less an island bed, since it's seen from all vantage points, and GC is the tallest element.

Tend to plant with mature size in mind for spacing, rather than crowd, in this humid climate with high blackspot pressure where air circulation is important as a deterrent, but that's me & my no-spray ways. All this is a longwinded way of saying since Golden Celebration grows so well here in the Upper South, I'd expect greater & lusher growth in your Deep South garden with your considerably longer growing season, higher temps & greater sun intensity year round. So I'll echo others' recommendations that you space CG 6' at minimum from other large roses, consider your best guess maximum mature dimensions of any other rose you're thinking of including in the same bed & adjust your plans accordingly...

Very nice roses you've chosen! Give them room to thrive.

Oh, the pink rose on the RIGHT ... I think that is 'Catherine Mermet.' I wish she had ever done so well in my own garden!

This garden is located in Newbury Park, CA. That's "over the Conejo Grade" from us -- which means it is a far warmer garden than mine. Has markedly less ocean influence. (Say, Sunset Zone 21, as opposed to my 23/24.) It makes a difference.

When Mike Shoup donated roses for this garden, he said that he welcomed the chance to demonstrate the suitability of old Tea Roses for Southern California gardens. I sure does that!

Comtesse -- I really, really love 'Niles Cochet.' You know it was discovered in Niles, CA (Fremont, CA) and that is pretty close to the site of a huge old N.C. in San Juan Bautista. That one's a traffic-stopper. (See below)

(In fact, that Niles Cochet is another example of just how big mature roses can be, if allowed to reach their healthy mature size.)

Jeri

I don't know how hot you really get but my GC takes the sun very well here. It's on the west side of the house and gets all the hottest sun of the day from about 11 am on to sunset. It is a little bit of a water hog but not nearly as bad as my Graham Thomas which is always thirsty! It does have a tall growth habit for me getting up to the eaves on a trellis, about 12 feet, most every year. But even so it still has good branching and blooms almost to the ground as well.

I love your Niles Cochet rose! I just ordered the White Maman and the Maman Climber (pink). Maybe I will get the Niles next lol.

I saw another one that was yellow called Alexander Gray Hill then said "aka Yellow Maman Cochet". Does anyone know anything about that one?
~SJN

Of course, I have no experience with it in FL conditions -- but I personally think Niles is the best of the three roses (though the other two are no slouches!)

We got our Niles from the Huntington many years ago labelled as 'Maman'. It's never really had the vigor here that it has elsewhere, but I love it all the same.

We have (?had?) Alexander Hill Gray in the Stagecoach Inn garden, and it never took off there, really. It's of unknown parentage, so I doubt its relationship to Maman Cochet. The San Jose Heritage Rose Garden has it -- maybe it does better, there.

Thank you for the info on the "Yellow Maman" I was wondering why it would have two names lol. I think I will definitely be ordering a Niles once I figure out where it will go.

Yes the growing conditions are certainly different here in FL much more humid and rainy than in So Cal (I was born in LA County, CA so I do remember how much nicer it is in CA :)

Do the Cochets produce nice hips in the fall?
~sjn

I honestly don't recall any hips. Hadn't thought about it, but it's not all that common, with Teas. I'd go look, but it's down the hill, and I'm not ready yet to walk down there. :-)

But FWIW, many roses have more than one name. If you look a rose up on HelpMeFind, you'll often see alternative names. Even today, it's not uncommon for a rose to have one name in Europe, another in the U.S. and others in Australia and South Africa.

Take 'Peace' for example. Its first name was 'Mme. Antoine Meilland'. It's also been named 'Béke' and 'Fredsrosen'

'Fourth of July' is a great name for the U.S., but not so much in other places, so it is also 'Crazy for You' and 'Hanabi' -- and its "Code Name is WEKroalt.

Another name for Peace is Gloria Dei, I believe this was its first name.

Cath