3 - Trotty offended the bells by failing to be to true to himself and those around him, particularly those he loved. He allowed the view of the politicians regarding the poor lot of the "lesser" people, and their view that the people in the lower strata of society were undeserving of happiness, and unworthy of the joys of life such as the upper strata experienced. He then passed these feelings onto to his Margaret and Richard. He gave up on himself, his family and, indirectly, the spirits of the Bells.

Martin...I posted about language in the reminder thread...I'll go harvest that and bring it here.

The first thing that strikes me about this piece is Dickens' use of language for effect. Particularly in the 1st quarter: the description of the wind as it blows through and around the tower. By the end of the paragraph, I felt the power of the wind and was sure I had heard the wind. The second time, is during Trotty's "vision" in the tower...the cadence of the language, especially when I read it to my husband...well, "tintinabulation of the bells, bells, bells" kept ringing through my head.
There were several points in the piece where I was literally holding my breath with the incredible use of language.

No, it's just not as touching or as tender as Christmas Carol. Such a big part of it is quite depressing, although at first reading some time ago, I knew how it would end. And, I must admit, I had completely forgotten the story line. I don't think that happens with Carol.

It reminds me of Hard Times. Dickens really didn't like the machine age, did he? I think that is the answer to Question 2. The machine age is all we know (or was, before the age of technology); and we like to think that we of the Western world, at least, are long past the time of child labor and death from such horrible, long hours of overwork and desperate poverty. I know, I know--bad things are still with us, but not to the degree of the 18th c.

Frankly, after a wonderful introduction (the wind, etc.) I found I was disappointed in "The Chimes." I had expected it to be as good as "A Christmas Carol." It did not leave me feeling inspired, or touched in any way. I found the story line confusing, as well. I don't think it is Dickens at his best....

There were some similarities to "Carol"-and weren't those 'rich' people horrible and judgemental!
There did seem to be more emphasis in this book on how the rich keep the poor people down, but it has been years since I read "Carol" so maybe that book does cover that in the same way?

I find myself quite relieved when I turned the page and read Meg waking Trotty up and telling him he shouldn't eat tripe, and finding that he wasn't really dead and that indeed Meg & Richard were getting married.

A quick read and a nice little book to remind us "Tis the Season" and to be kind to others!

Pat

I landed up having to read this 'on line' as within the whole of the Gloucestershire County Library system the only copy of The Chimes was in Pitmans short hand. Yes, really.
Unlike Bulwer-Lytton it gave me no 'agreeable feelings', although I can imagine young Victorian maidens, their Mamas and their servant girls lapping it up and waiting for the next episode to appear, hearts pounding, each week.
I found it to be an eg of Dickens at his most sentimental and mawkish . . . I hate all those descriptions of the innocent golden curls and delicate red lips and wonder if it was Dicken's who introduced these sickly ideas of pure woman-hood to readers of this time, or was the custom already 'in place'.
Was this book/story written before C Carol does anyone know?

As it was me that said I thought our book discussions were becoming very feeble would anyone like to say they disagree with me?
And can some one please tell me what had happened to Lillian (in the future)? Had she been forced to become a 'lady of the night' in order to send Meg money? I must read it again.

I'm reading it online and am halfway through. I find I am having to force myself to read it. I find myself in agreement with Veer's comments so far. I'm also repelled by Trotty's blind acceptance of anything a rich person says to him as if it were the word of God. The man has no spine.

There is a lot in Dickens I like. And he can do gentle, innocent characters with great strength -- look at Joe in Great Expectations. But I think there is a reason modern readers have mostly forgotten this story.

I started to read it, lost interest because of the over sentimental writing (which is often why I can't read books written in that time period). I can see why most don't read it now, but who still read works such as Great Expectations, Tale of Two Cities, and Oliver Twist (my three favs, anyway)

>I know, I know--bad things are still with us, but not to the degree of the 18th c. (19th?)

Depends - there are parts of the world where such conditions exist; heck there are parts of this country where illegal child labor still exist. One thing I think Dickens was very good at, was reporting on the underbelly of society. He was the Sinclair Lewis of his time. Much hasn't changed, but much has because of works like his.

Yes, of course, 19th c. Guess I was thinking 1800s.

Vee, I, too, thought Lillian's money was from prostitution since Meg refused to accept it and they were not sharing accommodations.

Right. I had this wonderful long post, discussing all of this, all ready to publish. Then I rebooted my PC, and halfway through I realized....

Grrr...

Anyway.

To answer Vee's question - The Chimes was published in 1845, a year after the Carol, and was intended as a follow-up to the remarkable success of the latter book.

I personally didn't find it to be quite as mawkish as some here do. I felt more that there was sheer anger coming through, much more so than I did in the Carol. Though I'm not sure I entirely agree with Bulwer Lytton's comments (about "the fierce tone of menace to the rick") I can see where he's coming from.

I'm going to cheat slightly, and use some of the help from my edition (what's the point in having notes if you don't use them, eh?). I felt that the Chimes is a much more pointed book than the Carol - it's interesting to note that there are particular contemporary people and events that are being referenced, much more so than in the Carol. For example, Alderman Cute is lampooning Sir Peter Laurie, a noted Middlesex magistrate, who was noted for his ability to talk to offenders in their own language. Similarly, the events where Meg came close to throwing herself and her child into the river were inspired by the case of Mary Furley. Briefly, in desperation, she had attempted to drown herself and her child in the river. She had survived and the child had died, and she was condemned to death for infanticide (later commuted to seven years transportation after a public outcry, in which Dickens joined).

The point I'm making is that nowadays the book lacks that immediacy that it would have had in the mid-1840's. And it's probably not a good enough book to stand on it's own two feet. The moral isn't quite as neat to grasp; there is no real redemption in the same way. Trotty wasn't in any way bad compared to Scrooge - he'd just had a bit of a telling off by someone he felt - wrongly - ought to know better than him due to his position and education, and it caught him in a bit of a bad mood. I thought the Bells were a bit over the top for that!

I did think there was some nice wry humour in the book. I particularly liked this comment.

"What do you mean!" cried Filer sharply. "Married!"
"Why, yes, we're thinking of it, Master," said Richard. "We're rather in a hurry, you see, in case it should be Put Down first."

So I agree with a lot of the comments above. It's not a great book. But it's interesting to read, knowing more about the points that are being made. In these days when Victorian Values are again being recommended by certain British politicians, it's useful to read books like this to remind ourselves exactly what those Victorian Values actually were.

Martin, thanks for the information, I find it helps to understand the background to this period. I imagine Sir Joseph Bowley MP 'the Poor Man's Friend and Father' who plays skittles with his tenants and Deedles the Banker who blew his brains out, are also characters that would have been recognised by Dickens' readers.
Once you realise what was happening in England at the time CD was writing this story it does make some of his comments clearer. Bad harvests, poor working conditions, child labour, (although Cindy, it was less terrible than it had been) and probably the most worrying thing to the 'Powers that Be' was the revolutionary ferment that was taking place across the Channel which led to the 'Chartist' Movt unrest in the UK . .. demands for better voting rights etc.
At the time there was a real possibility that England could go the same way. I think this is where the character of Will Fern comes in; the poor and hot-headed but basically honest labourer.
In the 'future' we see him saying farewell to Margaret and telling her "There will be fires this winter-time . . . distant skies red they'll be blazing." As he has already been imprisoned on many slight/trumped-up charges, this would get him hanged.
Interesting that in the speech Fern makes at the New Year's celebrations at Sir Joseph's house he complains that the 'gentle folk' keep prying into the business/habits of the poor before they will consider helping them.
I'm sure many of these 'do-gooders' in real life would have read Dicken's early works 'Oliver Twist' etc and been so moved by what they read that they formed committees to try and help the poor. Obviously not always appreciated!

If you click on the site below and go to the 'John Leech' pictures you will see the illustrations he did for 'The Chimes'.

Here is a link that might be useful: John Leech's Illustrations for 'The Chimes'

Vee the version that I have of The Chimes is a small one and it has those illustrations in it. I bought it years ago at a Book Fair, it is apparently part of a set. I bought another at the same time, I think that one is The Cricket on the Hearth...it is also part of the same set.

Martin-I too thought the Bells were too harsh on poor Trotty, after all he was a downtrodden, badly treated poor man. Even in todays world if a person is told often enough that they are less than others and they have no right to expect decent treatment-they will tend to believe it and accept it.

Pat

Vee - as you say, Sir Joseph Bowley was intended as an attack on the Whig ex-Chancellor Lord Brougham (it says here...!) It seems he was also fond of philanthropic but superficial gestures. However, there are no notes about Deedles - I imagine that was more to make the contrast about the idea that if you are rich, and yet driven to suicide, then it is very sad and moving - but for poor people, suicide is a shocking evil, and must be Put Down!

I don't know. The more I read this book, the more I appreciate it. It's no-where near as good as A Christmas Carol but it does contain some fine writing. As Veronica has mentioned, the descriptions of the wind is very fine; the speech that Will Fern makes to Sir Joseph Bowley and Alderman Cute and the assembled throng is quite powerful stuff. I can see how it would have appealed.

Apparently, five(!) dramatizations of the book appeared in London soon after the book was published - the audience in particular took the part of Will Fern to their hearts.