I would love to hear that spoken. I don't think I have ever heard more than a word or two in Welsh. Indeed it is beautiful.

Congratulations to Wales!

Congratulations, Wales!!

BTW: After reading your little history above, I take it "Edward" is not a popular boy's name in Wales!

Lauramarie, Come to think of it, I don't know any Edwards or Teds or Eddies. The Welsh version is Iorwerth. Edward had a good go at the Scots, too, but he died before he could get very far with them and his son, Eward 11, was not a very effective kiing in any way. In fact, he was a national disaster! It's why the Scots still have a lot of their own laws and are possibly pitching for home rule. Wales is a conquered nation, you see; Scotland never was. Here endeth the lesson.

Siobhan, I wish I could read it to you. It's a lovely sound.

Anyway, we've won the triple crown, but we've got to beat France and Italy to wiin the championship this year.

Isn't Edward Longshanks the one who executed William Wallace? And his son was the first to be named Prince of Wales? Or something like that? (Aging mind like a sieve - of course I could just look up this information.)

That's him, Siobhan. Legend goes, the son he 'gave' to Wales as a replacement for the prince that he killed, would be someone who spoke no English. It was, of course, a baby. But that might all be apocryphal.

dido, from my history, Scotland was, finally, a conquered nation, forced to join the United Kingdom, after the defeat of Prince Charles,--- was it 1745, Culloden Moor? Anyway, the Scots lost their independence and were not allowed to wear the kilt. After that date, many left for America, as often their crofts had been seized.

Don't know, Mary. Conquered? Put down, finished off once and for all and forced to be under the brutal governance of another nation as the Welsh were with all privileges withdrawn - privileges like living in their own towns? Couldn't say. Anyway, they still have their own laws so I don't know what that means either, if it doesn't mean what I first said. Try Wikipedia for further, clear information. I think what happened to Scotland, officially, happened before the Pretenders (Bonnie Princ Charlie and the other one) who were lateish upstarts and who were finished off once and for all at Culloden. I expect lots of them did go to America, however, like the Irish.

dido, I forgot to say that I truly liked the musicality of the poem you posted above. Do you have any more?

woodnymph,Scotland forced to join the United Kingdom?
No, the thrones of England and Scotland were joined under JamesVI/I in 1603.The later Stuart King James II, tried to 're-Catholicise' the land but was opposed by both English and Scots which led to the crown being offered to William of Orange and Mary, ousting James in the 'Glorious Revolution' . . . ie. no blood shed.
The Act of Union of 1707, put forward by the Stuart Queen Anne, joined the Parliaments of the two countries. As Dido says the Scots still keep their own system of laws and education
It was James Edward and later Charles Edward (Stuart 'Pretender' descendants) living in France and assisted by the French monarchy who's follows, the Jacobites, tried to overthrow the House of Hanover (descended from James I) which finally ended in their defeat at Culloden. It could be said that without the hair-brained plans and uselessness at commanding an army displayed by 'Bonnie Prince Charlie' the Highlanders would not have come to such an ignominious end. It must also be remembered that many of the lowland Scots never supported the Pretenders and fought against them.
As for the United Kingdom that was not formed until first Wales in 1535, Scotland in 1707 and Ireland in 1801 were joined as an entity with England sending elected members to the Westminster Parliament.

Dido, too often Wikipedia follows the Hollywood version of history. :-)

Thanks, Vee, for that clear account of Scottish history. Wikipedia, I think, is uselful for a first-time outline after which, if one is serious, one goes on to reliable sources. For my info on the history of early Wales, for instance, I used many sources - usually Welsh historians but sometimes English, like Trevelyan, for a broader picture and an alternate view.

Mary, glad you liked the poem. There's loads more of really early stuff - by people like Taliesin who is probaly the oldest recorded poet (poetry extant in ms) in Britain. I'll see if I can find something classic for you.

Dido

Is there any way to hear the poems?

Try this Siobhan, although it is not a very clear recording drowned by the 'background' music.

Here is a link that might be useful: I am Taliesin

That's lovely, Vee. Ioan is a Welsh speaker so it's an authentic sound. Taliesin is the oldest of extant Welsh poets and the most famous - dating back to the 600s AD. I don't know that that poem is by him though The Lament for Llywelyn I showed you above is by Gruffydd ab yr Ynab Goch (Gruffydd, son of the Red Juge), written about 1284.

Wow! I am having to pace around to cool myself off! That man is seriously...you know...is it okay to say that here? I guess I'm not as old as I think!

Funny how "cuckoo" is the same in every language. Obviously named after the sound, but apparently we all hear it the same.

Taliesin is a fairly well known word here in the U.S. because Frank Lloyd Wright used that name for his homes, one in Wisconsin and one in Arizona.

So I'm ready to ditch the Gaelic name and adopt a Welsh one.

We turn out some interesting men onto the world: Richard Burton, for instance (who came from just up the road from where I was born); Anthony Hopkins (from the same area); Rhys Ifan; Bryn Terfel the opera singer. I have to admit being a Burton fan, myself.

Your name, which is lovely, Siobhan, probably means 'Joan'. Does it? The Welsh equivalent would be, I think, Siwan. The 'si' is pronounced the same in Welsh, as 'Sh'. Or there's Sian - Jane - very popular in Wales. 'Vaughan', which is the Welsh spelling of the second half of your name - from its sound, anyway - means 'little'. Frank Lloyd Wright was probably at least part Welsh to have used the name Taliesin so much. He obviously wanted to be reminded of the old country. It's used a lot in Wales as a name for Arts centres and places generally to do with the Arts.

Dido -
After I read Sion Phillips autobiography, I heard her on local Public Radio being interviewed. The emcee had a hard time saying her first name. I thought it was "Shawn" -- but it turned out to be something different.
How do you pronounce it??

Yes, I believe he was interested in his mother's Welsh background (sieve-like memory seems to capture that for some reason). He was widely traveled as well.

You wouldn't believe the response I get when I tell I people that 'Siobhan' simply means 'Joan.' And I sometimes get people trying to tell me that I should change the spelling to make it easier. I am appalled at that practice, which has become common here. Also it has become popular to come up with a weird and creative spelling for a 'regular' name. James becames Jaymez. Shouldn't be allowed! (I really am turning into a curmudgeon.)

I'm a big Burton fan also, and I adore Terfel.

My niece is named 'Anwyn' - my b-i-l wanted to name her 'Eowyn' from Lord of the Rings but my sister couldn't get behind that choice. I found "Anwyn' in a baby name book and they were both happy with it. She loves her name. I seem to remember that is a fairly new name construction, not an ancient one. And a friend named her daughter 'Sian' - always called her Siani - as a nod to the character Chani in Dune but is an actual respectable name.

lauramarie, Sian (should have an accent on it somewhere) is pronounced 'sharn'.
I know a woman called Susan, who spells it Sioux.

From that last win, Wales got the Triple Crown - ie they beat England, Scotland, Ireland. Today, they play France (2.30, GMT) and if they win they'll get the overall Championship.

Also playing today are England v. Ireland and Italy v. Scotland.

yes! the grand slam is ours!

Veer - Thank you for that clarification.

Dido - Yaaayyyy!!

Woot!