If it wasn't summer I would say it sounds like carp pox. But as it is supposed to be summer I would say some kind of bacterial or parasitic problem, but probably not white spot as that looks like small white spots (grain of salt size) not zits. I wouldn't advise buying expensive koi from pet shops. If I was buying large expensive koi it would be from a koi dealer I knew something of and I'd want to know the breeder and history of the koi.

Thanks for the feedback Chris, carpox doesn't sound good, it's not mentioned on my treatment.

It's def not salt in appearance, more like zits as I mentioned.

This photo may help, it's hard to get them to stay still.

{{gwi:2117137}}

can you post a bigger pic? maybe koivista? looks kinda red around it? fungus? jo o/

Big pictures by request, sorry abouot the quality, the picture above I zoomed and cropped with photoshop, thease are 'as taken' in all cases it's stops on the tails and no where else that I can see.

As far as I can tell there is no redness, I only noticed it today, will have a check in the light tomorrow for any developments.

Please keep your thoughts coming, the more info the better.

{{gwi:2117138}}

{{gwi:2117139}}

{{gwi:2117140}}

{{gwi:2117141}}

The little buggers are a bit camera shy, that and that fact they are new and a little shy of me also.

Thanks again
Paul

Although pictures are ot clear, I think it might be carp pox. I would describe carp pox as a waxy spot. It's not dangerous, and the dealer possibly wiped it off. It might be best to catch one and take a scrape, take a closer look under a microscope. Then you're sure of what you're dealing with. I'm curious how much you did pay for them?

I thought I got a great deal 2x 14" Koi and 2x Shibumkins for £140

I don't have a microscope, should I buy one? Also I fish are very shy, catching them may be a problem, any tips, and tips for handling them?

I'm sorry to say but you've been seen off with those fish. As for catching and handling I'd say be prepared before you start to catch the fish, bowl full of water, wet towels or handling mat, any meds you might use and glass slides etc.

Paul, Please don't take this wrong I'm not trying to rub it in but I've just posted two pic's of koi I bought locally last year and this (neither show standard but nice fish). One cost £15 and the other £17.50, both bought as tosai (less than one year old). As you can see the grow in their second year puts them up to the size you bought. I also bought an assagi and a kohaku last summer for £20 each, both 5" long tosai, both now reaching 12" with the summer growing period just starting. I'm posting this to hopefully show that koi don't have to cost a fortune if you look around and select carefully.
Chris.

I think Linda is not far off, carp pox is mainly associated with japanese imports, and it looks like that, it should be gone or close to gone by now, so maybe its just the last stages of it, theres no cure for carp pox but its does no harm, dont try and wipe it off tho, you will do more harm than good, which is probebly as Linda says, the dealer did to sell the fish!

And I think you was ripped off with the price too.

But as for the spots just keep an eye on them.

gees, it just goes to show how nieve you can be, I don't profess to be an expert in this, just a simple guy with a simple garden pond. I only found this forum when I started to have problems and already i am learning so much I wish I had come here first.

I am gutted that I have been stiched up, but I did shop around (the shops) and that was a good deal, maybe I should learn more and go into breading.

Everyone, thank you for sharing your knowledge with me, I am concerned for my fish (and my pocket too) still worried about those spots!

If I were to buy a microsocope what sort of magnification should I go for?

Thanks as always

Search for parasites at 75x-100x, then identify them at a higher magnification. I would say a microscope of 50x-600x range would be ok with the best optics and construction you can afford. Try ebay for a secondhand one.

hi
paul.
it looks like koi pox to me.

the fish can have this 4 up 2 a year but as everyone said it does them no harm just doesn,t look nice.

we all live and learn on this forum and its good we r all here to share our knowledge.

-----------david----------------fishmaduk----------------

bigger pics help, pretty sure its jus pox unsightly but harmless. we had a few with it and a new aquisition developed it, think that was because he came from dealers slightly warmer tank? seems like its gone now tho. as for the koi and the price maybe someone nearer your area could point out good places to buy fish? but as a wise man once said to me " if you like the fish - its the right fish for you" regards jo o/

A little update, my koi seem to spend an awful lot of time almost motionles on the bottom. after two weeks I had hoped they would be better.

The shop where I bought them has offered to take them back, and I am thinking if doing so this weekend.

So I am looking for a good koi source nr east london. Any recommendations?

Thanks

What size pond do you have - gallons, depth. What sort of set up - air, filters etc. How is your water PH, Nitrites, etc.

My pond setup is about 1000 Gallons, main depth is about 3 feet with a about 1 foot on the left and right sides as a shall area, one side containing lillys, there's a bridge across the middle to give the fish shelter. The pond has an air pump and stone, a uv filter, and a fairly large bio filter. Water is nice and clear!

I have the NTLabs 200 test kit, ph is 7-8 nitrite and nitrate show minimal readings and I hope the addition of some new plants and a 1/3 water change will help clear that up, ammonia is 0 General Water hardess etc are all fine.

The pond has 10x baby goldfish, 2x 5" shabumkins, 2x 7" Golden orfe, 1x 7" koi, 1x 10" gost koi, and the two new arrivals which I need to take back are both about 12-14" koi.
I consider this to be fully stocked and if the goldfish grow large they will be moved to a foster home. But I would like to replace to two poorly koi. After reading everyones advice, I would like to find a koi dealer that I can trust.

I'd err on the side of caution and wait awhile to replace those poorly koi. Carp Pox would not affect them as you describe. It's mainly a visual thing. So who knows what their problem is, and could they have infected the other koi?? It might be prudent to return them and watch the others for a while, make sure all is ok.

agree with limda - send em back amd wait a week or three? watch and learn? give you a chance to source a respectable dealer - pls dont "garden centre" if you do you are asking for it! as for sources in london - sorry cant help, live about 250 miles away lol good luck o/ jo

ps where is london anyway? lol

hi
paul.
pending if u know cruise hill near Enfield a place called wildwoods or Amwell aquatic centre Thornwood,Essex(near Epping)or A10 aquatics @Waltham cross (OTHER AQUATIC CENTERS R AVAILIBLE)don,t no any in London.

hope this helps u paul but as others has said wait just a little time 2 c what the other fish r doing before u get more fish.

-----------David---------fishmaduk------------------

I have been to wildwoods in enfield, excellent selection, but not the cheapest, however I am thinking now that it's worth paying for quality.

Today I took my two poorly 14" koi back, and got a full cash refund (pleasant suprise) BUT I noticed as I bagged my poor babies that the spots on their tails also extended to red sores from their tails moving into the body so def poorly fish.

Now they are gone, I notice some white patches on one of my existing small koi, so today I did a third water change and a medifin bath for the whole pond. (UV filter off)

Following everyone's fab advise I am holding off before I restock.

I will see how my little chap gets on, and report back, my worry is that I will have to remove my 3 remaining koi as "bad fish" before I can continue as a hobbist.

These damn fish are worse than chidren

The koi dealer we use has plenty of smaller fish from around £10. They have been in Q'tine same as the more expensive koi. I risked a couple in my big koi pond, but they are prone to get sucked into skimmers and or bottom drains at just 6" long. One did get mangled in the bottom drain, the other is now getting on for 8" and is a sturdy little chap. He surfs in over the top of big koi to get his share of the food. I might try another couple next year, but I think I'll keep them in the smaller goldfish pond for the first summer.
Keep us posted with the other koi - fingers crossed they'lll be all right

just to clarify, when I say 'risked', I meant becasuse of the bottom drain and the skimmer!

Hi all.
I had(still have one) two goldfish with symptoms similar to
those described by Paul. It started out as a creamy patch two months ago,but soon erupted into a waxy growth,like a 'cluster of rough berries'(please go to http://www.nfkc.info/Dead Fish.htm), one near the caudal fin and the other below the dorsal fin.
There was no noticeable loss of appetite/abnormality in fish behaviour,so i ignored it for a while,hoping it would get cured by itself.
Yesterday,i noticed one of them sitting at the bottom of my aquarium. It did not move much even though i tried to stir ir gently. Today morning i found it floating on the water,dead.
i checked my water parameters,they look fine.
my aquarium is about 240 gallons, and i use a 2200lph capacity external canister filter.

I am not very sure if it is carp pox. Any feedback on the disease/cure? is there anything i can do to protect the surviving goldfish?

Thank you,
Monty.

P.S. how do i post pics of my sick fish here?

An update, comments welcome please...

So following the return of the two poorly koi back to the petshop for a full refund, one of my established koi caught what we think maybe carp pox. This was a month or two ago now and I have been watching the fish carefully, no change in habits or feeding, and no signs of trouble. However the pox doo seem to have grown from yellowish waxy bumps to protuding white spots about 3-4mm. not on the tail & fins as with the returned fish, but on the right side of the body. I don't 'think' the number of spots is growing but they are getting bigger.

Here's a photo:

{{gwi:2117142}}
Other photo's at http://www.flickr.com/photos/sulley/tags/pox/

I thought the warm weather may help, but then came the rain. I have noticed a tiny spot on the tail of one of the other fish - Im not sure what flavour this fish is, it looks like a fantail goldfish but has very strong colouring, perhaps you can enlighten me.

{{gwi:2117143}}

So I ask in desperation once again, are my fish ok? I dont have a quarentine tank, should I ditch the poorly fish for the sake of the greater good? Should I heat the pond to 80f? Is carp pox exculsive only to koi and I have a parasite?

I feel hopeless and dispondent. This is my 1st year as a hobbiest and I worry about the fish like my own children (very sad I know, but they need me!)

My pond water stats:
pH-8 Amonia-0 Nitrite-0.15 Nitrate-2 KH-8 GH-11
Test taken with NTLabs Pond kit, all seems acceptable

Thanks again
Paul

Here is a link that might be useful: more photos

Carp pox is normaly present in the winter and early spring, but I suppose its possible it might flare up in summer, but I havent seen it, but it like cool waters to show up.

The other fish is a sarasa commet.

If it's that cluster of stuff on the right side it doesn't look like the carp pox one of my koi still has (it went on the other when it warmed up). It might be it's hard to tell but the spots don't stick out like that on my koi and there's only about 7 of them evenly spread around. Dunno what to suggest, I've never come across anything like that before.

I don't know if mine was the same but I will tell you about my goldfish. It is a very large fish and has always seemed quite fat round its girth.It also somewhere along the line got the bulging eyes.
Anyway I noticed what looked like white waxy spots like yours on one side of the fish. It had these for a little while. I thought it was carppox and kept my eye on it. I thought it looked worse after a while and so tried to net it out to have a better look. It looked like the spots had all erupted and were open and sore. I felt like I wanted to just wipe the gooeyness away but didn't as I felt that I might make it worse.
I had just introduced some other fish into the pond so I had done a treatment for fungus and parasites a few days beforehand. It is called Eradick and is a five day treatment.
I didn't know what to do with the poorly fish when it became sore so thought about a salt bath. I changed my mind as I thought it might stress the fish out too much and hoped that the eradick in the pond would work. Then we had the warm weather and my fish looks really good again. It has healed up and just has the marks under the skin like little bumps.
He never stopped eating or anything and so although I was concerned for him I hoped he would be okay. That is all I can tell you really so I don't know if it is any help or not, but I am sure that the warm weather has helped to heal him.
Alison

I think you've gone way past QTine, if it's infectious then the others are either immune or they have it! Before you add any chemical treatments, I think taking a scrape is the way forward. It gives you an opportunity to identify what is the problem rather than guessing. Otherwise watch and wait. Certainly wouldn't add any other fish to the pond this year.

Thanks for the advise guys, keep it coming. I just wish there was somewhere I could go, that would take a look at the fish, take a scrape etc, but as far as I can tell there is no-where nr Eastlondon.

might be worth looking up the local koi club. Someone there may be kind enough to pop around and take a look for you.

hi i have a 3000 gallon pond with koi and goldfish in it
the one gost koi has the marks seen in the photo i think its carp poxs but not sure.
it never gose away just stays all year round and is starting to spead over him no other fish have it on them any ideas please.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90914909@N00/159258025/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90914909@N00/159258026/

Here is a link that might be useful: is this carp pox?

it looks like carp pox, if it is - once the water warms up it my go it will not kill the koi, it is not transmitable to other koi it is in bred.

Hi Paul, I just joined the forum, I'm in Dallas, Tx
I'm sorry I might be a little behind, Is Melafix or Pimafix available to you? Great stuff for a wide range of bacterial, fungal infections. Another tip, I bought 2 Butterfly Koi from our PetSmart here in Dallas,about 2 years ago, and last year 7 more and this years 10. They were just about 2"long now the 1st 2 are a foot long healthy, last years are about 8"long healthy so what the heck, I got 10 more!!! Lots of colors, blues, metallic, blacks, awesome silver greys, glittery yellows with beautiful vignettes, so if your a little patient these guys were all less than 5 us $, now worth much more Just had to share that