hmm..you know Michele, I'm still trying to dry those dahlias. They do grow between 3-4 ft, they're a pinky lavendar, the bloom is 8 inches across but they only have a slight scent...just wondering..."scuffing foot"

My Ballerina and Veilchenblau have clusters of small hips like that and almost no thorns. Robinhood too, but it's a bit thorny. Ballerina's have been very pretty. Firm shiney round hips, nice color. The local wild rose makes nice sprays (good color) but they're airier (hips further apart). I don't know what would grow in MI, though.

a lot of these are copyrighted...

The bit about there being male and female setigeras I've heard before. However, it certainly doesn't agree with what I've seen. It is possible that setigera isn't self-fertile. It is a once-bloomer, being the latest of those that bloom here. It starts in late July, and if the summer is particularly hot and dry, will stop blooming until the fall rains. It supposedly isn't an easy rose to hybridize with, but there are a collection of early 19th century American cultivars. Oh man, that is a blast from the past. I still know that rose as 'The Gift x Sweet Chariot'. I don't know why it wouldn't be a good rose for birds, but who knows where you can get it currently. In New Hampshire, it was definitely a small, mounded rose.