Well. I appreciate this lively and informative commentary, some of which is slightly beyond me: that's why I hesitated about writing another set of remarks. I guess the case is that I want the soil to be able to support plant life more than I want it to be friable, though that would be, oh, "magical" may be the right word. Like Marianne said, soil you can plunge your hand into. Taoseeker, I hope you'll continue to find my thoughts worth reading! The suggestion of potatoes to break up the soil is interesting, but here the wild boars would get them for sure; still, I like the idea of plants and their root activity doing the work for me. I've been rethinking grass recently. Much of ours is annual, and it occurred to me that removing the grass from the beds and then mulching with hay is logically inelegant. This spring in many places I cut the grass and let it lie between the roses; now that it's dead we're mulching with hay again, but the roots will, I hope, stay and turn into food for earthworms and company. I've also been rethinking our practice of plowing our beds and then mulching them before planting. We've had two rainy winters and, in consequence, three slides close to or in the garden, and one large, nasty slump. In every case the ground had been disturbed by our gardening activities, and I am becoming quite cautious about disturbing the soil on a large scale. I wouldn't put a few years into soil improvement with cover crops, the reason quite possibly being my shortsightedness and impatience. I think these are valuable suggestions, for those who plan far enough ahead to do it. I do believe that to have almost anything growing in ground is better than having nothing growing in it. Some native plants I like and welcome in my beds; in other cases I'm just trying to get more plants planted, whether purchased or grown from cuttings or seeds. We do work with a modest budget and on a large scale, and the land is steep and difficult to work: it has to be done by hand or with a tractor. We left the tractor work to others after my husband nearly killed himself when the one we once ran away with him. Never again! This is a very interesting discussion and I appreciate all the input. Melissa

if it was me, I would buy a 3.8 cubic foot bag of peat moss and a few bags of sheep manure to mix that in the soil. this will really help with loosening the soil. The heuchies will really appreciate this. (they hate clay soil) the hostas are less picky in my experience, albeit they will grow more slowly in clay soil. I've dealt with clay soil for my entire gardening life, the big bales of peat moss have been my biggest ally in amending the soil. The roots you'll have to deal with, unless you rip the hollies out........ I hope this helps you Esther James

What a beautiful day couldn't have been any better. Thanks for the comments everyone Now I know why the roses are starting to grow the ground it not frozen at all. Moved a few roses that needed a new spot. Took down the rest of the wooden trellises that had seen their day. Its good to work again. Now gotta find the advil and bengay.

Hi Mad_Gallica, Yes, solarization can be part of a good plan here. I have solarized and then planted with lasagne methods...that gets any new planting off to a good start after a bed has gone wild for a few years (which is the case right now.) In this case, with a heavy planting of daylilies, I think I could manage any upstarts pretty well while the daylilies fill in. Funny that the first suggestion is Hyperion...because I was thinking of her. I didn't have a spot for her for awhile, so I gave her to my sister for safe-keeping. We got Hyperion from my mom before she died in 1999 (nearly all of my daylilies are from her, she loved them so. ) We try to keep all of her plants alive.